I understand there's a lot more to it.....talent wise we definitely are deficient as compared to most NFL teams. It's clear as day. We are not a few players away and it's gonna take a long time. My biggest concern is how poorly this team is coached...... in my opinion it's not a good idea to keep firing coaches and starting over and over and over again but this team is so bad I think the right move would've been taking an established coach to turn things around. We are so bad as a fan I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, at least not in the near future .
Said it weeks ago and then all of a sudden some garbage wins made them coach of the year.
This team would still be bad with yet another new coaching staff.
Talent is the main problem. By far. If we continue to blame the coaches and overrate the talent on the roster we'll never get better.
Next year he's on the hot seat.
Tommy Cutlets may have saved his job.
Daboll should be fired immediately after this game.
An idiotic QB switch.
Cost us big time.
Can Taylor miss any more open WR ???
HEY PILLSBUY....Taylor ain't our future and there was no injury.
Go back to Buffalo please.
Quote from: Giant Obsession on December 25, 2023, 07:29:27 PMDaboll should be fired immediately after this game.
An idiotic QB switch.
Cost us big time.
Can Taylor miss any more open WR ???
HEY PILLSBUY....Taylor ain't our future and there was no injury.
Go back to Buffalo please.
Where were you last year after he won coach of the year and led the Giants to their first playoff win in a decade? Were you panning him then?
Sure, go ahead and fire him. And continue to reinforce the already solidifying image we have around the league of being a two year revolving door for head coaches. Can't wait to see the next batch of candidates that image attracts.
This team doesn't fight like this without coaching. The HC and DC are good, just need a specials, oline, and oc.
Hard to be a good team with horrible qb play and a bad oline. The defense does everything they can to drag the offense to wins.
I guess the silly season is upon us. This team isn't poorly coached, we lack talent at too many positions. We're down five, on the road, to a 10-4 team and if Taylor doesn't short arm his pass to Waller we're ahead. We keep switching coaches and we keep sucking. Either we can't pick coaches or we can't pick players.
I'm sceptical how anyone could claim any of the three QBs in play are our future.
Taylor despite his faults is easily the best Qb we have and it's not close. There is no deep game with 2 of our 3 Qbs, at least with Tyrod the defense has to respect it.
15 all day
I thought I was on the game thread....I was talking about the low hit on Tyrod
We really got shafted on a couple of horrendous calls, especially the one at the end of the half. That cost us 3 and potentially the game. We kick a FG at the end to win.
And that head bob also cost us.
Can't blame the coach for that
Whats with McFadden.....he could not tackle my grandmother today
Ughhhhh
They should give Coughlin a start next week. The guy hits hard and is a sure tackler
My problem with Daboll is he is new and probably doesn't have the authority to make coaching changes. There is no way our OL AND ST coaches should be here now, both are awful and that translates to the field. I see other trams relieve certain coaches of their duties mid stream, yet these two are just bad yet they continue here as if there is nothing we can do about it. Is Daboll afraid of doing something like this?
A oft injured, under talented team plays hard for Daboll. The Giants at this point cannot overcome playing against two teams at once.
Top 5 pick here we come. They are not a well coached team this year. Few players have improved. Big coaching glitches like Kafka's inability to scheme plays away from pressure, not coaching a new $160 million QB to throw beyond the 1st down marker and not firing an OL coach mid-season.
Then Daboll has no chance if he's stuck with this garbage staff.
How anybody could watch this game... In which the out manned and out gunned Giants without a single QB of any reputable skill took the defending NFC champs and one of only maybe 4 or 5 legit super bowl contenders to the absolute brink and could easily have pulled it out...and question the coaching afterwards is beyond me. They should have lost by 4TDs to this team. And they might the next time they play but today was not a good example of bad coaching. Quite the opposite.
Quote from: LennG on December 25, 2023, 08:09:17 PMMy problem with Daboll is he is new and probably doesn't have the authority to make coaching changes. There is no way our OL AND ST coaches should be here now, both are awful and that translates to the field. I see other trams relieve certain coaches of their duties mid stream, yet these two are just bad yet they continue here as if there is nothing we can do about it. Is Daboll afraid of doing something like this?
I am pretty sure he was trying see if it was just the injuries hampering the team at the beginning of the year and now with 2 games left we still aren't healthy 100% but healthy enough to know coaching at a few of the position groups is a problem. With 2 games left though you might as well just wait until January and not ruins someone's Christmas.
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 25, 2023, 08:16:16 PMHow anybody could watch this game... In which the out manned and out gunned Giants without a single QB of any reputable skill took the defending NFC champs and one of only maybe 4 or 5 legit super bowl contenders to the absolute brink and could easily have pulled it out...and question the coaching afterwards is beyond me. They should have lost by 4TDs to this team. And they might the next time they play but today was not a good example of bad coaching. Quite the opposite.
Because some of us are tired of a decade of moral victories.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 25, 2023, 07:23:26 PMTommy Cutlets may have saved his job.
Before DeVito entered, I was pretty convinced Daboll was pretty much another Joe Judge and saw no reason to keep him. Now I think there's something there, but I'm still not sure what.
I do know that if we're looking at overhauling large parts of our coaching staff, I'm not sure I want to keep Daboll.
Quote from: LennG on December 25, 2023, 08:09:17 PMMy problem with Daboll is he is new and probably doesn't have the authority to make coaching changes. There is no way our OL AND ST coaches should be here now, both are awful and that translates to the field. I see other trams relieve certain coaches of their duties mid stream, yet these two are just bad yet they continue here as if there is nothing we can do about it. Is Daboll afraid of doing something like this?
If Joe Judge had the authority to fire his OL coach after half a season, I'm sure Daboll has authority too.
Quote from: AYM on December 25, 2023, 08:20:22 PMBefore DeVito entered, I was pretty convinced Daboll was pretty much another Joe Judge and saw no reason to keep him. Now I think there's something there, but I'm still not sure what.
I do know that if we're looking at overhauling large parts of our coaching staff, I'm not sure I want to keep Daboll.
The detail training and coaching is clearly not there. Especially on Offense. They struggle to execute as a Unit every game. Special Teams mistakes. Poor tackling fundamentals by not properly being in position to team tackle. A Tom Coughlin team would never perform like this. That's what's been missing since he was forced to retire.
I think Daboll is doing the best he can with the talent he has, I'm not sure any other head coach is doing any better.
I like Daboll but he needs better Coaches around him. We clearly know the talent needs to improve but the core Veterans are inconsistent too and that's coaching. I see what Pierce has accomplished with the hapless Raiders and they all of a sudden become a much better team.
Year three of a rebuild and it looks like three more years..
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 25, 2023, 08:30:46 PMYear three of a rebuild and it looks like three more years..
Partially because the refused to acknowledge last year was the beginning of a rebuild and tried to add instead of starting over and building up.
The coach out there who I would consider firing Daboll for is Jim Harbaugh but I doubt he would come here . If Bellichik would give up his total control , I would seriously consider him with Schoen continuing as GM
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 25, 2023, 08:26:02 PMI think Daboll is doing the best he can with the talent he has, I'm not sure any other head coach is doing any better.
This to me is the key. The talent evaluation on this team has been poor for a good while now. I'm not just talking about first rounders; other teams seem to find second, third and fourth rounders who step in and help immediately. This team should be able to find those players too.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 25, 2023, 08:30:46 PMYear three of a rebuild and it looks like three more years..
When you've consistently sucked for a decade there is no such thing as a "rebuild" anymore.
https://twitter.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1739450382097481856
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2023, 08:42:36 PMhttps://twitter.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1739450382097481856
I agree I think if Tyrod Taylor played the whole game we would have won
They had no chance with DeVito.
Devito isn't the answer to anything but unfortunately his momentum was ruined by horrific coaching and play calling.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 25, 2023, 08:59:32 PMDevito isn't the answer to anything but unfortunately his momentum was ruined by horrific coaching and play calling.
If you ranked our personnel compared to the Eagles and Cowboys, in what areas are we not coming in third?
Quote from: jgrangers2 on December 25, 2023, 09:22:32 PMIf you ranked our personnel compared to the Eagles and Cowboys, in what areas are we not coming in third?
It has been the case for years. That's why the moral victory stuff needs to stop.
7-15-1 in their last 23 games. It is what it is regardless of that playoff win.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 25, 2023, 09:24:58 PMIt has been the case for years. That's why the moral victory stuff needs to stop.
No one is saying that one should be content with the outcome. But at least from my perspective, if you've got to point fingers, pointing them at the coach whose team punched way above it's weight feels inaccurate.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 25, 2023, 08:20:08 PMBecause some of us are tired of a decade of moral victories.
Then at least make an argument that has some legs. Calling out the coaching after a game like this is akin to blaming the Giants fans for not showing up to support the team.
If Daboll's voice was ignored by this team, they would have mailed it in. Instead, they fought their asses off and were close to pulling an upset. That's not a coaching issue.
Quote from: T200 on December 25, 2023, 10:21:41 PMThen at least make an argument that has some legs. Calling out the coaching after a game like this is akin to blaming the Giants fans for not showing up to support the team.
If Daboll's voice was ignored by this team, they would have mailed it in. Instead, they fought their asses off and were close to pulling an upset. That's not a coaching issue.
And last week was a complete no show effort against New Orleans.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 25, 2023, 10:26:31 PMAnd last week was a complete no show effort against New Orleans.
What are your expectations of an offense with a 3rd string undrafted FA rookie starting behind the 32nd-ranked offense in the league?
Daboll is the HC and ultimately responsible. I lay the blame primarily at the feet of Kafka. He's been atrocious this year. Madden pick-a-play could call a better game than him.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 25, 2023, 08:20:08 PMBecause some of us are tired of a decade of moral victories.
It's unreasonable to walk into that game expecting to win or really even have it be close. The fact that it was is a sign of excellent coaching.
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 26, 2023, 12:09:00 AMIt's unreasonable to walk into that game expecting to win or really even have it be close. The fact that it was is a sign of excellent coaching.
Nonsense. It happens all the time in sports. What about all the no show efforts? Is that a sign of awful coaching?
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 25, 2023, 08:06:11 PMWhats with McFadden.....he could not tackle my grandmother today
Ughhhhh
They should give Coughlin a start next week. The guy hits hard and is a sure tackler
he started out the season the same way. he is one of the worst rated tacklers in the league. yeah he makes some big plays, but he needs to get better at tackling. and mckinney can walk. dude is a walking missed tackle.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 26, 2023, 01:20:58 AMNonsense. It happens all the time in sports. What about all the no show efforts? Is that a sign of awful coaching?
It very well could be. You'd have a better argument using a game like that to say we were outcoached. IMHO, you picked the wrong game to call out coaching. I would love nothing more than to beat Philthy in their own stadium as well. But this fight went to decision and we didn't get knocked out as many predicted.
Quote from: Messiah717 on December 25, 2023, 08:20:08 PMBecause some of us are tired of a decade of moral victories.
So,
When in danger fear and doubt
Run in circles scream and shout?
How does that decade of futility relate to a coach one year past coach of the year?
Crazy thought. Get rid of Kafka and poach the Eagles OL coach to be the new OC. I'm not sure but I think that is doable under the rules. Then let him hire an OL coach to work under him and understand that his top priority is 'fixing' the OL. Daboll would have to do double duty as de facto OC for a lot of the OC's game planning function. Maybe bring in an assistant OC to help.
And who knows, if he gets that O-line fixed he could grow into other aspects of being OC. He was a college OC for 4-5 years back in the day.
I think that in the moment, blaming the coaching looks like blaming the HC (given the old "buck stops here" mentality).
However, for me the reality is that in the middle of a season during real time, the position coaches and coordinators are often exposed as the problem.
Bobby Johnson has failed miserably in getting the most out of the offensive line. Does the unit lack talent? Perhaps, but for me it's just as likely that they haven't been properly developed.
Special teams has been a disaster for years....leadership of the unit needs to be addressed.
Has anyone taken a good hard look at the receiving group? Other than Slay, Robinson & Hyatt is there another worthy of being on an NFL roster? Or are they not being developed?
It's often chicken or egg...in this case I think it's both.
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I simply dont see the offensive creativeness I thought the Giants hired:
1) no schemes to get away from pressure
2) not enough misdirection plays to keep a D guessing and off balance. It's not just calling misdirection plays but calling them at the right time
3) with two running QBs in DJ and TT, how are 10+ QB plays not a staple of this offense
4) when Neal struggled early, they failed to play someone immediately alongside to help him
The OL played fairly well against the Eagles yesterday. Maybe the eagles were mailing it in and taking the Giants for granted, but I saw our QBs with ample time to throw and not many sacks or even running for their lives.
Quote from: LennG on December 26, 2023, 01:10:10 PMThe OL played fairly well against the Eagles yesterday. Maybe the eagles were mailing it in and taking the Giants for granted, but I saw our QBs with ample time to throw and not many sacks or even running for their lives.
The OL looked better with Taylor than they did in the 1st half with DeVito.
That should tell you a little bit about the significance of a good QB vs a below average one behind an OL.
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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 26, 2023, 01:24:32 PMThe OL looked better with Taylor than they did in the 1st half with DeVito.
That should tell you a little bit about the significance of a good QB vs a below average one behind an OL.
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Andrew I agree, Tasylor has basically whatever time he needed and was able to stay in the pocket, at least longer than most.
Quote from: LennG on December 26, 2023, 01:26:42 PMAndrew I agree, Tasylor has basically whatever time he needed and was able to stay in the pocket, at least longer than most.
He moved the pocket and kept his eyes downfield much more effectively than Tommy.
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Quote from: Messiah717 on December 26, 2023, 01:20:58 AMNonsense. It happens all the time in sports. What about all the no show efforts? Is that a sign of awful coaching?
It's a sign of a terrible team with pathetic QB performances. To me bad coaching is taking a team that should win and losing with it. If they played the Panthers with Jones and lost that's bad coaching. They're better than the Panthers. If they had lost to Washington that's bad coaching. They're better than Washington. He won 3 games with Tommy Freaking Devito. I don't care who they were playing that's great coaching. They damn near beat the Eagles without a QB. That's great coaching. If you think this team is going to win 12 games with this QB play..I just don't know what to tell you.