https://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1744153605764944210?s=20
https://x.com/AlbertBreer/status/1744153640158244922?s=20
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
https://x.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1744153394300809286?s=20
Pennix will still be there at 6
He is not the sexy pick just the best one
Had they lost today I think they only would have moved to 5th. In a 4 person draft... Screw it I say it's worth it to kick the crap out of the eagles for just one slot. If the Pats chargers and Cards had won I'd be pretty annoyed though.
If we'd lost we'd have jumped one to five.
I'd take handing.these a ball-ache into the playoffs over a one place jump.
Giants will have a chance at Daniels. Washington wants Williams and will make Chicago an offer the can't refuse. Bears take Harrison, pats take Maye, Cards take Nabors or Alt, Chargers take Nabors, Alt, or Fashnu, Giants get Daniels.
A six pick in the draft is a poor reward for such a horrible season
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDR9YXJbwAAMkNS?format=jpg&name=large)
6th pick means we have a very good chance of many more years of miserable seasons.
At least John Mara is happy /sarcasm/
https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1744152674105192469?s=20
Quote from: Gmo11 on January 07, 2024, 07:34:49 PMHad they lost today I think they only would have moved to 5th. In a 4 person draft... Screw it I say it's worth it to kick the crap out of the eagles for just one slot. If the Pats chargers and Cards had won I'd be pretty annoyed though.
Exactly, all this hand wringing over 1 draft slot lost to a team that isnt looking for a QB.
If they lost they stay at 5.
And there are those that will have you believe that the Eagles lost to the Giants on purpose to hurt the draft slot. They let AJ Brown play and get injured just to get the Giants to move back that spot and probably ended any chance of making a serious run in the playoffs.
They really got us this time.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 07, 2024, 07:46:23 PMExactly, all this hand wringing over 1 draft slot lost to a team that isnt looking for a QB.
If they lost they stay at 5.
And there are those that will have you believe that the Eagles lost to the Giants on purpose to hurt the draft slot. They let AJ Brown play and get injured just to get the Giants to move back that spot and probably ended any chance of making a serious run in the playoffs.
They really got us this time.
That was a ridiculous conspiracy theory. However, the clown Eagles coach did try to play mind games saying he would watch the score board. You can't have it both ways. You either play to win or not.
At this point, winning today didn't impact much. It's the 3 game winning streak that cost us a chance at the QBs.
Quote from: katkavage on January 07, 2024, 08:41:12 PMThat was a ridiculous conspiracy theory. However, the clown Eagles coach did try to play mind games saying he would watch the score board. You can't have it both ways. You either play to win or not.
I thought his team played like he talked. Not sure what they wanted to do.
The only thing sweeter would have been had the Girls lost too.
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on January 07, 2024, 09:02:20 PMThe only thing sweeter would have been had the Girls lost too.
You would have liked the Giants to lose so we could have moved up one draft spot to number 5 ?
There is all we really need to know as to who is, and who is not, a real fan as opposed to some wannabe GM phony-ass. At least, you now where you can shove it.
Cheers!
Yeah, the Giants were so inept, they could have lost every game and guaranteed themselves the first pick. /sarcasm/
So, when would the OP like to see his team begin to intentionally lose games? After they are eliminated from the playoffs?
Football is about winning games. Where have all the high draft picks for a decade got us? Losing!
Drafting 5 or 6 we are not getting the guy who might replace DJ. If that is the plan then we need to trade up to 1 or 2 and it is only a fraction more expensive from 6.
If that isn't the plan (and that is my best guess) 6 is a spot to either trade back or to take the best player on the board irrespective of position or positional value eg if TE1>Wr2/3 or DT1>Edge 2 take the better player.
We have holes literally everywhere so draft players not positions day one and two.
Must fill holes (eg RT, DE/DT post Leo, OG, CB) are for FA or trade IMO.
Look guys, either you tank the season completely or you play to win the game. Simple as that.
The Giants elected for the latter.
Yesterday's win didn't change the cards a whole lot from a Draft perspective, whether you pick 5th or 6th doesn't change massively.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on January 08, 2024, 01:59:56 AMYou would have liked the Giants to lose so we could have moved up one draft spot to number 5 ?
Where do you see him saying that?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 07:14:02 AMWhere do you see him saying that?
Yes, this frustration encompasses all the meaningless victories the screwed the team's future.
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 08, 2024, 05:30:46 AMLook guys, either you tank the season completely or you play to win the game. Simple as that.
The Giants elected for the latter.
Yesterday's win didn't change the cards a whole lot from a Draft perspective, whether you pick 5th or 6th doesn't change massively.
Imagine you're at work and if you fail to complete a project on time, there would be an opportunity to hire more folks. But here's the kicker: the new hire may replace you.
Do you do your best to complete the project on time or miss the deadline in the hopes of getting more help?
Quote from: Painter on January 08, 2024, 02:23:34 AMThere is all we really need to know as to who is, and who is not, a real fan as opposed to some wannabe GM phony-ass. At least, you now where you can shove it.
Cheers!
Agreed!
The draft is a crap shoot! If it wasn't then MR Irrelevant wouldn't be Starting QB in SF and Brady would have never been Brady!
As a fan you root for your team to win! At all costs!
The offseason is why you have a great GM and scouts to win the offseason!
Any fan rooting to lose for a better draft position to me has their priorities all wrong!
@Painter @Slugsy-Narrows No True Scotsman Logical Fallacy
Description:
The argument defends an assertion by disallowing, by definition, all counterexamples, emphasizing that we are only talking about true examples of whatever population is under consideration.
Comments:
The fallacy takes its name from the colorful example (paraphrased below) that Anthony Flew originally invented to illustrate it.
Examples:
"No true Scotsman puts brown sugar on his porridge. The fact that Angus MacGregor puts brown sugar on his porridge just proves that he's no true Scotsman!"
"Liberals are a bunch of latte-sucking elitist pseudo-intellectuals from New England. Of course, Hubert Humphrey was from South Dakota, so I'm not talking about him."
Discussion:
Political parties and other interest groups need to have principles, and a person who claims to be a member of that party or group, while denying the central principles that define the group, is surely mistaken or confused. For example, one could hardly be an atheist while believing that Vishnu is the deity responsible for sustaining and supporting the universe. It is reasonable to demand some standards of behavior or belief, and there is no fallacy in saying that no true atheist worships Vishnu.
The No True Scotsman fallacy mimics this demand for standards, but it attempts to create (by definition) membership criteria that are not the defining criteria that we normally expect (or that are actually in force).
The No True Scotsman fallacy is used in two ways. It can be used to try to enforce conformity and orthodoxy within a particular group, and it can also be used by people outside the group to "define" the group in negative ways. When the fallacy is used in the second of these ways it can bear a strong resemblance to the Straw Man fallacy, i.e. creating a misrepresentation of an opponent's view. The fallacy also bears some resemblance to the fallacy of Equivocation, since the term at issue--"Scotsman" for example--shifts its meaning: a Scotsman is a member of a particular geographic or ethnic group, vs. a Scotsman is a member of that group who doesn't put brown sugar on his porridge. Despite these similarities, I have classified the No True Scotsman fallacy as an Inductive circularity, since it seems to me that the central error in the fallacy is the use of mere stipulation to disallow observable counterexamples that would otherwise refute the arguer's generalization about a population.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:50:38 AM@Painter @Slugsy-Narrows
No True Scotsman Logical Fallacy
Description:
The argument defends an assertion by disallowing, by definition, all counterexamples, emphasizing that we are only talking about true examples of whatever population is under consideration.
Comments:
The fallacy takes its name from the colorful example (paraphrased below) that Anthony Flew originally invented to illustrate it.
Examples:
"No true Scotsman puts brown sugar on his porridge. The fact that Angus MacGregor puts brown sugar on his porridge just proves that he's no true Scotsman!"
"Liberals are a bunch of latte-sucking elitist pseudo-intellectuals from New England. Of course, Hubert Humphrey was from South Dakota, so I'm not talking about him."
Discussion:
Political parties and other interest groups need to have principles, and a person who claims to be a member of that party or group, while denying the central principles that define the group, is surely mistaken or confused. For example, one could hardly be an atheist while believing that Vishnu is the deity responsible for sustaining and supporting the universe. It is reasonable to demand some standards of behavior or belief, and there is no fallacy in saying that no true atheist worships Vishnu.
The No True Scotsman fallacy mimics this demand for standards, but it attempts to create (by definition) membership criteria that are not the defining criteria that we normally expect (or that are actually in force).
The No True Scotsman fallacy is used in two ways. It can be used to try to enforce conformity and orthodoxy within a particular group, and it can also be used by people outside the group to "define" the group in negative ways. When the fallacy is used in the second of these ways it can bear a strong resemblance to the Straw Man fallacy, i.e. creating a misrepresentation of an opponent's view. The fallacy also bears some resemblance to the fallacy of Equivocation, since the term at issue--"Scotsman" for example--shifts its meaning: a Scotsman is a member of a particular geographic or ethnic group, vs. a Scotsman is a member of that group who doesn't put brown sugar on his porridge. Despite these similarities, I have classified the No True Scotsman fallacy as an Inductive circularity, since it seems to me that the central error in the fallacy is the use of mere stipulation to disallow observable counterexamples that would otherwise refute the arguer's generalization about a population.
🥱
Quote from: T200 on January 08, 2024, 08:09:33 AMImagine you're at work and if you fail to complete a project on time, there would be an opportunity to hire more folks. But here's the kicker: the new hire may replace you.
Do you do your best to complete the project on time or miss the deadline in the hopes of getting more help?
Me? This.
Look at what happened to Rivera and his GM today...
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 08, 2024, 09:20:55 AMMe? This.
The players undoubtedly feel the same way. They want to win. They don't care one iota about being in a better position to draft a guy who may replace them. They may also have incentive clauses that are triggered.
Chris Jones just got a huge bonus:
https://apnews.com/article/chiefs-chris-jones-sack-bonus-ab08193055f2e3f23b0775d6218e1e66
Let's not make this a referendum on fandom.
ANYTIME the Giants beat the Eagles is good as far as I am concerned! For the draft, the Bears will trade out, Cards and Chargers are keeping their QB's so probably three Qb's will go before the Giants pick.... maybe only 2 if the Commanders trade up to 1. I think the Bears keep their guy. So Commanders, Patriots will grab QB's leaving the Giants with a shot at a top tier guy (if they want one which isn't a given).
Quote from: expatriot on January 08, 2024, 09:43:23 AMANYTIME the Giants beat the Eagles is good as far as I am concerned! For the draft, the Bears will trade out, Cards and Chargers are keeping their QB's so probably three Qb's will go before the Giants pick.... maybe only 2 if the Commanders trade up to 1. I think the Bears keep their guy. So Commanders, Patriots will grab QB's leaving the Giants with a shot at a top tier guy (if they want one which isn't a given).
Currently, the consensus is there are 3 top tier QBs. So the Giants are not going to have a shot at one of the top QBs.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on January 08, 2024, 01:59:56 AMYou would have liked the Giants to lose so we could have moved up one draft spot to number 5 ?
No. Unlike some I never root for the Giants to lose. What I meant was had Dallas lost and we denied Philly the NFC East title, that would have made the win extra sweet
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 09:54:43 AMCurrently, the consensus is there are 3 top tier QBs. So the Giants are not going to have a shot at one of the top QBs.
Realistically, from the top 6 teams in the draft, there's only NE and WSH who will want to draft a QB.
Unless another team moves up... but that's a tough bet to take.
1. Chicago Bears (via Carolina Panthers)
2. Washington Commanders
3. New England Patriots
4. Arizona Cardinals
5. Los Angeles Chargers
6. New York Giants
7. Tennessee Titans
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. Chicago Bears
10. New York Jets
11. Minnesota Vikings
12. Denver Broncos
13. Las Vegas Raiders
14. New Orleans Saints
15. Indianapolis Colts
16. Seattle Seahawks
17. Jacksonville Jaguars
18. Cincinnati Bengals
I definitely expect Denver to move up in the draft.
If we are to take Schoen at face value, this comment might suggest they have no intention of pursuing a QB in this draft and that they intend to continue to build the franchise's future around Daniel Jones.
I really hope that's not true.
https://twitter.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1744355405117972581
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 07, 2024, 07:46:23 PMExactly, all this hand wringing over 1 draft slot lost to a team that isnt looking for a QB.
If they lost they stay at 5.
And there are those that will have you believe that the Eagles lost to the Giants on purpose to hurt the draft slot. They let AJ Brown play and get injured just to get the Giants to move back that spot and probably ended any chance of making a serious run in the playoffs.
They really got us this time.
I'm hoping that the "momentum" from this game leads to first round elimination for the Eagles.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 10:32:05 AMIf we are to take Schoen at face value, this comment might suggest they have no intention of pursuing a QB in this draft and that they intend to continue to build the franchise's future around Daniel Jones.
I really hope that's not true.
https://twitter.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1744355405117972581
I wouldn't take it at face value. Jones is on the team due to his contract and irrespective of his performance. To say anything other is an attack on him and previewing their plan going into the draft.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on January 08, 2024, 10:39:11 AMI wouldn't take it at face value. Jones is on the team due to his contract and irrespective of his performance. To say anything other is an attack on him and previewing their plan going into the draft.
Agreed, although the odds of them drafting a top QB have clearly dropped in recent weeks with some of these wins.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 10:40:15 AMAgreed, although the odds of them drafting a top QB have clearly dropped in recent weeks with some of these wins.
The miracle DeVito streak (really the defense playing well during that time) cratered their chances. Can't fault guys for playing hard, just wish New England didn't throw the game versus the Giants or the insane Arizona comeback hadn't occurred.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 10:32:05 AMIf we are to take Schoen at face value, this comment might suggest they have no intention of pursuing a QB in this draft and that they intend to continue to build the franchise's future around Daniel Jones.
I really hope that's not true.
https://twitter.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1744355405117972581
Schoen also talked about how Jones may not be ready to start the season, so they will need a contingency plan. Taken at face value (that may be ill-advised considering the value of misinformation for GMs), it suggests the Giants will be adding another veteran QB rather than drafting a QB.
Of course a non-first-round QB could be drafted.
@DaveBrown74 and
@H-Town G-Fan Mike is really dialed in to the Giants
https://x.com/TheDougRush/status/1744062869539377394?s=20
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 08, 2024, 10:28:39 AMRealistically, from the top 6 teams in the draft, there's only NE and WSH who will want to draft a QB.
Unless another team moves up... but that's a tough bet to take.
1. Chicago Bears (via Carolina Panthers)
2. Washington Commanders
3. New England Patriots
4. Arizona Cardinals
5. Los Angeles Chargers
6. New York Giants
7. Tennessee Titans
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. Chicago Bears
10. New York Jets
11. Minnesota Vikings
12. Denver Broncos
13. Las Vegas Raiders
14. New Orleans Saints
15. Indianapolis Colts
16. Seattle Seahawks
17. Jacksonville Jaguars
18. Cincinnati Bengals
I definitely expect Denver to move up in the draft.
The problem is the Chargers. Not that they are going to take a QB but that everybody in the league knows they won't and the Giants will. So a team like the Falcons if they can't get up to #1 or #2 they'll just go there to get ahead of the Giants which would be significantly less expensive than going to the top. Giants are in a bit of trouble as far as getting in position to draft one of those big 3 QBs. They may have to try and trade with the Chargers themselves if Daniels makes it to 5.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 10:47:04 AM@DaveBrown74 and @H-Town G-Fan
Mike is really dialed in to the Giants
https://x.com/TheDougRush/status/1744062869539377394?s=20
I think it all tracks. There is no young, future QB on the roster right now. Even if there was (or one gets added in the draft), Jones would still be the presumptive starter in 2024. Schoen is smart enough not to (publicly or privately) undermine Jones, who is still well-respected and Mara's golden child. Until they add someone who projects to be the future, the public "plan" is Daniel Jones.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on January 08, 2024, 10:52:51 AMI think it all tracks. There is no young, future QB on the roster right now. Even if there was (or one gets added in the draft), Jones would still be the presumptive starter in 2024. Schoen is smart enough not to (publicly or privately) undermine Jones, who is still well-respected and Mara's golden child. Until they add someone who projects to be the future, the public "plan" is Daniel Jones.
Well that and I would think he wouldn't want to show everyone his hand for the draft in January. I seem to remember people around here feeling that was one of Gettleman's many faults.
Even if they trade up to the 1 pick for a QB; if healthy, jones most likely will be the week 1 starter. The comment by Schoen that Jones will be the week 1 starter means very little in the big picture and is hardly support for Jones nor does it imply jones will see the end of next season or does it mean he will be with the Giants for 2025/26 season.
Olu, Alt, Harrison, Nabers, plus WIlliams and Maye in the draft and the Giants with the 6 pick, they are certain to get a quality player who if developed will greatly improve the team