https://x.com/Giants/status/1745160491876454734?s=20
https://x.com/NYPost_Schwartz/status/1745160791735607682?s=20
=D> =D> =D>
Common sense finally. I suspect Mara and Schoen had a chat and the grown-ups, including Wink's agent, got involved. Now Daboll has to find new coaches with a bit of a smell around him and Wink has to find a new job with a bit of a smell around him. Nobody won here but our rivals and they did not need the leg up.
Quote from: londonblue on January 10, 2024, 02:15:54 PMCommon sense finally. I suspect Mara and Schoen had a chat and the grown-ups, including Wink's agent, got involved. Now Daboll has to find new coaches with a bit of a smell around him and Wink has to find a new job with a bit of a smell around him. Nobody won here but our rivals and they did not need the leg up.
The Giants and Daboll won. He will hire folks who want to be here and will all (hopefully) be on the same page and have a singular voice. Martindale's presence was the exact opposite of team unity. The players liked Wink because of his aggressive style but he clearly did not foster team cohesiveness.
Quote from: T200 on January 10, 2024, 02:18:07 PMThe Giants and Daboll won. He will hire folks who want to be here and will all (hopefully) be on the same page and have a singular voice. Martindale's presence was the exact opposite of team unity. The players liked Wink because of his aggressive style but he clearly did not foster team cohesiveness.
Tim,
These are Daboll's words as of Monday morning.
Q: On Defensive Coordinator Wink Martindale and Offensive Coordinator Mike Kafka returning.
BRIAN DABOLL: My expectation is Wink and Kafka will both be back so those are two of the changes we made this morning but there's still conversations that are going to be had. We've only been here for a short time but those were two of the guys in the morning that I spoke with. Other than that, again, appreciate the way the guys finished and competed yesterday. We had an offseason meeting, leading into the offseason just a little while ago with the staff and the players and the coaches and all the administrators. It was a good year-end meeting. They're meeting now with their offense and defense, respectively, position coaches. (Senior Vice President/General Manager) Joe (Schoen) and I will have some meetings here with the rookie class, with the second-year class, the UFA class after this conference here. Other than that, open it up to any questions.
Q: What went into your thinking with deciding that both Mike and Wink will both return?
BRIAN DABOLL: It's my expectation that they're going to come back. I think they're good coaches, so it'll be good to have some continuity and bring them back. I know Wink talks about this as a destination place and things like that, it's good. I appreciate how hard they work, their commitment to the team, so that's my plan.
Q: Have you had conversations with them about that? I know you said last week you said that you haven't had conversations with people.
BRIAN DABOLL: Not yet. I haven't talked to those guys; I've talked to the guys that I let go, but that's my expectation and that's my plan.
While I understand the sentiment of "I want volunteers, not prisoners" approach to retaining coaches and players, I don't understand why when someone wants to leave the teams usually roll over and allow it without stipulation. While there's no financial implications here, the Giants can and should be able to block him from certain teams if it creates a competitive disadvantage. The Patriots certainly did that when Bill Parcells took a fake job with the Jets after voluntarily resigning his position. Not sure I'd want to be vindictive but if you're looking to get out of your coaching contract, the new team should have to provide compensation, otherwise what good are the contracts to begin with?
Quote from: zephirus on January 10, 2024, 02:28:38 PMWhile I understand the sentiment of "I want volunteers, not prisoners" approach to retaining coaches and players, I don't understand why when someone wants to leave the teams usually roll over and allow it without stipulation. While there's no financial implications here, the Giants can and should be able to block him from certain teams if it creates a competitive disadvantage. The Patriots certainly did that when Bill Parcells took a fake job with the Jets after voluntarily resigning his position. Not sure I'd want to be vindictive but if you're looking to get out of your coaching contract, the new team should have to provide compensation, otherwise what good are the contracts to begin with?
The details of the "mutual parting" have not been made public. It wouldn't shock me if there is some clause that precludes Wink from working for a division opponent in exchange for some or all of his $3 million salary (subject to offsets).
Quote from: londonblue on January 10, 2024, 02:15:54 PMCommon sense finally. I suspect Mara and Schoen had a chat and the grown-ups, including Wink's agent, got involved. Now Daboll has to find new coaches with a bit of a smell around him and Wink has to find a new job with a bit of a smell around him. Nobody won here but our rivals and they did not need the leg up.
I agree, although I think Wink's stick is on one side. I think Wink may have some stink in terms of other HCs wanting to hire him. On the other hand, if I were a position coach, I would like to work for a DC who has my back to the point of walking away from a job rather than see me unfairly (in Wink's opinion) fired.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2024, 02:35:34 PMThe details of the "mutual parting" have not been made public. It wouldn't shock me if there is some clause that precludes Wink from working for a division opponent in exchange for some or all of his $3 million salary (subject to offsets).
I got that guess wrong. Apparently, Wink is confident that he will get another job this season.
https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1745164495352119511?s=20
Caveat Emptor. Second ugly ending for Wink in the last two years. At a certain point people are going to recognize the problems weren't caused by Harbaugh or Daboll. When that day comes he becomes radioactive.
Quote from: madbadger on January 10, 2024, 02:54:03 PMCaveat Emptor. Second ugly ending for Wink in the last two years. At a certain point people are going to recognize the problems weren't caused by Harbaugh or Daboll. When that day comes he becomes radioactive.
Quote
Ravens coach John Harbaugh and his now-former defensive coordinator, Don "Wink" Martindale, had discussions over several days about a variety of topics, including Martindale's future with the organization. The expectation among most people with the team was that Martindale would be back for his fifth season leading the Ravens' defense. But when Harbaugh contacted Martindale while the head coach was at organizational meetings hosted in the Bahamas by Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti, it was made clear that a decision had to be made. The Ravens' 2021 season had been over for almost two weeks and Harbaugh needed his coaching staff in place.
The organization typically didn't want its top assistants to be on one-year, lame-duck deals. Martindale was under contract through the 2022 season, but that was it. The Ravens were willing to tack on a team option for 2023. Martindale, however, balked. He wasn't interested in giving the Ravens all the leverage to decide whether he was staying or going ahead of the 2023 season. He wanted to keep his options open.
Neither side budged, leading to a surprising divorce. Harbaugh put out a statement on a Friday night 12 days after the Ravens' season ended saying the team and Martindale were going in "separate directions."
"It was just kind of an opportunity to talk about where we were both going and what was best," Harbaugh said this week. "I think we both came to that decision together, I'd say. That's how I would like to look at it. I feel that way about it, and I think it's turning out great for him. Nothing but admiration for what he's doing."
https://theathletic.com/3690951/2022/10/14/baltimore-ravens-new-york-giants-wink-martindale/?source=emp_shared_article
What was the Gwyneth Paltrow's term..."amicable decoupling"? That it aint between these guys.
Hope the divorce doesn't mar our profile with prospective hires. #:-S
Gone
Great
Go ahead and sign with Philly
We will eat your lunch and toss away your Thermos.
I guarantee if he signs with a division rival that game will be a Sunday or Monday night game.
Bet on it.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2024, 02:45:29 PMI got that guess wrong. Apparently, Wink is confident that he will get another job this season.
https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1745164495352119511?s=20
The whole "Giants are afraid he'll go to Philly" turns out to be at best overblown, and at worst a leak from camp Wink.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2024, 02:57:23 PMQuote
Ravens coach John Harbaugh and his now-former defensive coordinator, Don "Wink" Martindale, had discussions over several days about a variety of topics, including Martindale's future with the organization. The expectation among most people with the team was that Martindale would be back for his fifth season leading the Ravens' defense. But when Harbaugh contacted Martindale while the head coach was at organizational meetings hosted in the Bahamas by Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti, it was made clear that a decision had to be made. The Ravens' 2021 season had been over for almost two weeks and Harbaugh needed his coaching staff in place.
The organization typically didn't want its top assistants to be on one-year, lame-duck deals. Martindale was under contract through the 2022 season, but that was it. The Ravens were willing to tack on a team option for 2023. Martindale, however, balked. He wasn't interested in giving the Ravens all the leverage to decide whether he was staying or going ahead of the 2023 season. He wanted to keep his options open.
Neither side budged, leading to a surprising divorce. Harbaugh put out a statement on a Friday night 12 days after the Ravens' season ended saying the team and Martindale were going in "separate directions."
"It was just kind of an opportunity to talk about where we were both going and what was best," Harbaugh said this week. "I think we both came to that decision together, I'd say. That's how I would like to look at it. I feel that way about it, and I think it's turning out great for him. Nothing but admiration for what he's doing."
https://theathletic.com/3690951/2022/10/14/baltimore-ravens-new-york-giants-wink-martindale/?source=emp_shared_article
I don't by the public spin. The NFL coaching community is small and insular. Head coaches thrashing former assistants is fairly unheard of. Just look at the furor Peyton set off this year when he went after his predecessor. In a league that has a dearth of high end coaches no one is going to walk away from a really good coach to satisfy some self imposed timeline. If they do it tells me more about the assistant than the head coach.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 10, 2024, 03:38:39 PMThe whole "Giants are afraid he'll go to Philly" turns out to be at best overblown, and at worst a leak from camp Wink.
If Wink quit the Giants controlled what he could do next year and didn't have to pay him
If the Giants fired Wink then the Giants were on the hook for $3 million and Wink was free to go anywhere
This was a negotiated settlement where the Giant's win was being sure to save $3 million, and Wink's win was being free to seek a job with any team. I am not sure one can conclude the Giants don't have concerns about where Wink ends up.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2024, 03:56:35 PMIf Wink quit the Giants controlled what he could do next year and didn't have to pay him
If the Giants fired Wink then the Giants were on the hook for $3 million and Wink was free to go anywhere
This was a negotiated settlement where the Giant's win was being sure to save $3 million, and Wink's win was being free to seek a job with any team. I am not sure one can conclude the Giants don't have concerns about where Wink ends up.
Seems to me they cared more about saving $3 million than where he goes next.
Quote from: Giant Obsession on January 10, 2024, 03:34:55 PMI guarantee if he signs with a division rival that game will be a Sunday or Monday night game.
Bet on it.
My guess is he goes to Dallas after Dan Quinn becomes Seattle's HC.
I really want Pierce , anyone know what kind of defense he would possibly call ?
I'm over the Wink thing .... Think I just like d him because I prefer the aggressive style defense like wink and spags over fewell and Graham
Quote from: killarich on January 11, 2024, 12:29:03 AMI really want Pierce , anyone know what kind of defense he would possibly call ?
I'm over the Wink thing .... Think I just like d him because I prefer the aggressive style defense like wink and spags over fewell and Graham
Wink is a good reminder that the results of the defense are more important than the style.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 11, 2024, 02:32:01 AMWink is a good reminder that the results of the defense are more important than the style.
We had better results then with Wink then we had with Graham
Grahams defense may be "ranked" higher right now
But holding onto a lead with Graham was a failure mission every time
If we are up 10-7 defending final drive of game the game is either going to OT or we are losing with Graham calling the shots
Giving 10 cushions on 3rd and 7 used to kill me, he would play the game as if we were up multiple scores and it almost never worked
Wink I admit was 50/50 but he called the game as if he wanted to end the game right then and there .....not purposely allowing the opposing team to get into FG range when thats all they needed
I liked Wink but even I admit his defense was hit or complete miss.... But Graham was always a miss because he was too stubborn to adjust or dial up any pressure
I dont have any attachment to Wink like I did with John Fox or Spags....but he was better than Graham and Betcher...
I dont need a coordinator who blitzes as much as Wink ...but I cant stand the soft defenses of Graham, Fewell etc
Quote from: killarich on January 11, 2024, 02:42:16 AMWe had better results then with Wink then we had with Graham
Grahams defense may be "ranked" higher right now
But holding onto a lead with Graham was a failure mission every time
If we are up 10-7 defending final drive of game the game is either going to OT or we are losing with Graham calling the shots
Giving 10 cushions on 3rd and 7 used to kill me, he would play the game as if we were up multiple scores and it almost never worked
Wink I admit was 50/50 but he called the game as if he wanted to end the game right then and there .....not purposely allowing the opposing team to get into FG range when thats all they needed
I liked Wink but even I admit his defense was hit or complete miss.... But Graham was always a miss because he was too stubborn to adjust or dial up any pressure
I dont have any attachment to Wink like I did with John Fox or Spags....but he was better than Graham and Betcher...
I dont need a coordinator who blitzes as much as Wink ...but I cant stand the soft defenses of Graham, Fewell etc
I'm not a fan of the bend, don't break Defenses either. The extreme opposite isn't good either. Defenses need to be multiple, mix and disguise. When Wink mixed in more Zone, that's when the turnovers started happening, along with the Offense protecting the ball.
Under Judge the Giants were -8, in 2022 they were plus 3. This year when Daboll coached Wink, they were plus 12 and the best team in the league.
Our defense just wasn't very good. That's on Wink and the GM. His scheme rarely created pressure.
Time to move on.
I think Wink has handled himself poorly. But I do appreciate how he values his personal freedom over money. Not many people would be willing to walk away from $3 million. To me there is honor in that. Possibly stupidity, who knows, maybe he has something better lined up, or maybe he just understands his dollar value in this league.
Either way, I don't see this as a major loss for the Giants. They could do worse than Wink but I don't see him as being irreplaceable or even very difficult to replace... at least based on the defense's poor performance over the last two seasons.