https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/giants-might-be-better-off-cutting-51-million-starter-says-writer/ar-AA1n0YxK?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=10b7350324cc4862a4f03aa60eab1977&ei=16
The New York Giants might have to consider parting ways with playmaking tight end Darren Waller after just one season with the organization.
Facing a crucial offseason in 2024, every dollar of cap space must be spent wisely, and USA Today Giants Wire's John Fennelly pointed out tight end as an area where Big Blue could free up some money.
"It would take a lot of courage to let Darren Waller go after just one season," Fennelly admitted, "but the Giants look like they got left holding the bag here as Waller was banged up all season — a scenario they were hoping to avoid. The going-on-32-year-old Waller made just 11 starts and played on 51 percent of the offensive snaps."
Waller's cap hit jumps up to nearly $14.5 million in 2024 according to Over the Cap, and increases another one million in 2025 and another three million in 2026. Designating him as a post-June 1 cut would only cost the Giants approximately $2.5 million in dead cap each year, however, saving the front office a total of $40 million spread out over three seasons.
In 2024, specifically, Waller's release would free up $12 million — money that could be spent on a younger, healthier wide receiver.
Seems like a no brainer decision.
Unfortunately we still have people in charge with no brains football wise.
in that case cut him lose
He was getting Bellinger and and Hodgins receptions away anyway
Waller makes a good target but has no YAC like those two
Can he block? They can
If all that is true, the answer is a no brainer! Cut him and save $12 million.
Waller looked bad because of the qb play and injury. Healthy with a good Qb and he may be worth keeping with a pay cut.
Cut Waller and draft Ben Sinnott in the 4-5 round.
Even when he was healthy and catching the ball, I was expecting much more of a warrior out of him. He was more like Larry Donnell and Bellinger had the Bavaro moments.
Just reminding everyone that designation as a June cut means the cap space only becomes available then. It can cover the in season wriggle room fund but it is not directly available to sign people during free agency (though it potentially lets you run up hard against the cap then to do it).
I'd keep him at half that price. If not. The money would be of much better use on the o line
I agree
Lower the price and he might be a keeper.
He does have great length and soft hands
Reminds me of Plaxico in that regard, especially on the high balls
I find it hard to believe that Schoen made this trade for just 1 year of Waller. I expect a restructuring of his deal.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 16, 2024, 09:52:13 AMI find it hard to believe that Schoen made this trade for just 1 year of Waller. I expect a restructuring of his deal.
I agree.
I see no reason whatsoever to keep him. As usual, he spent most of this season injured. I can't believe it will be any different next season.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 16, 2024, 09:52:13 AMI find it hard to believe that Schoen made this trade for just 1 year of Waller. I expect a restructuring of his deal.
They restructured it last year after the trade. I get that the hope was that he would be a weapon for a few years, but you can't trust him to stay healthy. I'd cut bait and save the $6-7M.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 15, 2024, 07:50:23 PMWaller looked bad because of the qb play and injury. Healthy with a good Qb and he may be worth keeping with a pay cut.
Still looking for ways to beat that same drum, huh, Jess. Not to worry, we get it. But as if it really matters, Waller actually faired a tad better re targets/completions average in his 5 games with Jones than in the 7 games he played subsequently.
While Jones having been lost for 12 games versus Waller for just 5 is perhaps worth mentioning, they would seem to be separate issues re the question of Waller's cost/performance as is, and as projected.
I realize that every move they make has all sorts of cost implications and constraints, and rarely more so than with the burden of Daniel Jones's $47 million cap hit which according to "usual sources" would still leave them with nearly $50 million in cap room, an amount which would disappear in an eye blink in signing FAs and re-signing their own. We are talking about guys like McKinney and Simmons, not to mention Barkley AND a couple of these FA OGs: Kevin Zeitler, Andrus Peat, Robert Hunt, and Connor Williams. Gotta happen. We can expect a lot of turnover comings and goings before we get to the Draft. And while perhaps it should be, Waller's status has not stood out to me based on 12 games this season one way or another irrespective of who was at QB.
Whether or not we think there is even a slight chance that Daniel Jones, if and when heathy, will or can- after 5 years of trying- prove to be worth keeping after this year, is simply the large animal in the room which we will be forced to study for as long as it takes Schoen/ Daboll to decide one way or ...
Cheers!
Waller did not impress me this year. I get it, they had other problems. So with that in mind, cut him or keep him? I am fine either way.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 15, 2024, 09:48:38 PMEven when he was healthy and catching the ball, I was expecting much more of a warrior out of him. He was more like Larry Donnell and Bellinger had the Bavaro moments.
Wow. Larry Donnell citing. Looked like Tarzan..Even Jane played harder. As tough and competitive as a egg crate.
>:( 2
Quote from: coggs on January 16, 2024, 04:05:19 PMWaller did not impress me this year. I get it, they had other problems. So with that in mind, cut him or keep him? I am fine either way.
Me either and clearly his best days are behind him. I expect an injury more than a big game.
I'm sort of with Coggs. I'm kind of indifferent. The amount saved (6 and change mil) isn't enough for it to feel obvious to me to cut him, but I also wasn't particularly impressed with him on the field nor do I have any confidence that he can play much more than 12 games or so. Gun to my head I'd probably say cut him and put that savings towards perhaps an O line free agent, but I'm not overly bothered either way. I have stronger views about certain other players.
Schoen has to give a higher value to durability of players they contemplate drafting or acquiring through trade or FA market. AVAIL-ability is very important in a long season and not every talented player has that durability factor.
Quote from: Painter on January 16, 2024, 02:31:18 PMStill looking for ways to beat that same drum, huh, Jess. Not to worry, we get it. But as if it really matters, Waller actually faired a tad better re targets/completions average in his 5 games with Jones than in the 7 games he played subsequently.
While Jones having been lost for 12 games versus Waller for just 5 is perhaps worth mentioning, they would seem to be separate issues re the question of Waller's cost/performance as is, and as projected.
I realize that every move they make has all sorts of cost implications and constraints, and rarely more so than with the burden of Daniel Jones's $47 million cap hit which according to "usual sources" would still leave them with nearly $50 million in cap room, an amount which would disappear in an eye blink in signing FAs and re-signing their own. We are talking about guys like McKinney and Simmons, not to mention Barkley AND a couple of these FA OGs: Kevin Zeitler, Andrus Peat, Robert Hunt, and Connor Williams. Gotta happen. We can expect a lot of turnover comings and goings before we get to the Draft. And while perhaps it should be, Waller's status has not stood out to me based on 12 games this season one way or another irrespective of who was at QB.
Whether or not we think there is even a slight chance that Daniel Jones, if and when heathy, will or can- after 5 years of trying- prove to be worth keeping after this year, is simply the large animal in the room which we will be forced to study for as long as it takes Schoen/ Daboll to decide one way or ...
Cheers!
What are you talking about? You were so quick to complain that you didn't notice I never mentioned Jones, I was talking about the qb play in general, you know the topic that is being discussed by everyone in this forum? It's delusional on your part to act like we wouldn't talk about the horrible qb play from all 3 qbs not just Daniel jones, when it was one of the 2 biggest factors in us losing this year?
For Jones over the middle passing tendency, Waller is an ideal target
Outside the numbers both are not ideal
With a new, even though he was here before, strength and conditioning coach, maybe Waller has a better chance at staying on the field. That being said, I'm fine with keeping or cutting him.
I wouldn't cut Waller outright. His base salary next season is $10.5 million. With Waller's injury history and age, he isn't going to make it near that on the open market. If I were Schoen, I would tell Waller he needs to cut that salary in half, and if he refuses, I would cut him.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 16, 2024, 05:42:42 PMI'm sort of with Coggs. I'm kind of indifferent. The amount saved (6 and change mil) isn't enough for it to feel obvious to me to cut him, but I also wasn't particularly impressed with him on the field nor do I have any confidence that he can play much more than 12 games or so. Gun to my head I'd probably say cut him and put that savings towards perhaps an O line free agent, but I'm not overly bothered either way. I have stronger views about certain other players.
This article claims they will save $12 million if cut June 1st.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/1/16/24039387/giants-position-reviews-tight-end-darren-waller-was-good-but-not-as-good-as-hoped
Quote from: RelaxTension on January 17, 2024, 12:09:22 PMThis article claims they will save $12 million if cut June 1st.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/1/16/24039387/giants-position-reviews-tight-end-darren-waller-was-good-but-not-as-good-as-hoped
If he gets designated as a post-6/1 cut, the dead cap would get spread out over the next two years. They'd save $12M for 2024 but carry almost $6M in dead cap space for 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 would save a little over $6M this year but then he's off the books for 2025.
Quote from: jgrangers2 on January 17, 2024, 12:51:45 PMIf he gets designated as a post-6/1 cut, the dead cap would get spread out over the next two years. They'd save $12M for 2024 but carry almost $6M in dead cap space for 2025. Cutting him pre-6/1 would save a little over $6M this year but then he's off the books for 2025.
Unless you believe the Giants are a sure playoff team in 2024 or, better yet, a championship contender, I am not sure what purpose is served in pushing cap hits into future seasons (which is what a post-June designation does).
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 17, 2024, 12:57:40 PMUnless you believe the Giants are a sure playoff team in 2024 or, better yet, a championship contender, I am not sure what purpose is served in pushing cap hits into future seasons (which is what a post-June designation does).
I agree. If they're going to cut him, it should be with a pre-6/1 designation. Just eat the dead cap for this year and move on. A post-6/1 designation should be saved for specific situations like you said where the team is set to compete next year and can use the additional cap space.
How can you cut someone with this level of talent?
https://twitter.com/SNYGiants/status/1748432843326267844