I think it's worth a look.
https://walterfootball.com/draft2024QB.php
Good short points and stats. Looks like each QB has at least a few warts. Personally, I think Drake Maye is the safest bet. Although I think Bo Nix is the most NFL-ready. It is concerning that most pundits see him as a backup or out of the top 5 class. This one has him at 4. The Huddle Report at 6 and an early second-round pick. The 40 times are high, especially on Daniels who was clocked at a 4.5 and his legs are his attribute.
The below excerpt on Penix is less than ideal.
In the back half of the season, Penix showed some accuracy issues, with many easy would-be completions being lost to passes off the mark. Penix needs to improve his accuracy and mechanics, plus his footwork will need development for the pros. However, there is talk that Penix was playing hurt in the back half of 2023, which impacted his accuracy. Sources with NFL teams said that vision is a problem for Penix, who either doesn't read the coverage or pre-determines his throws and pushes them into coverage regardless of whether his receiver is open. Penix demonstrates some decision-making issues when teams drop seven or eight and rush him with only four or three defenders.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 26, 2024, 03:42:31 PMThe below excerpt on Penix is less than ideal.
In the back half of the season, Penix showed some accuracy issues, with many easy would-be completions being lost to passes off the mark. Penix needs to improve his accuracy and mechanics, plus his footwork will need development for the pros. However, there is talk that Penix was playing hurt in the back half of 2023, which impacted his accuracy. Sources with NFL teams said that vision is a problem for Penix, who either doesn't read the coverage or pre-determines his throws and pushes them into coverage regardless of whether his receiver is open. Penix demonstrates some decision-making issues when teams drop seven or eight and rush him with only four or three defenders.
As
@Ed Vette said, all the QBs have at least some warts. That's why I started the thread about QB traits. What traits we value determines which QBs we will like and which we will be less enthusiastic about.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 26, 2024, 03:55:10 PMAs @Ed Vette said, all the QBs have at least some warts. That's why I started the thread about QB traits. What traits we value determines which QBs we will like and which we will be less enthusiastic about.
True, but that bold faced passage includes a handful of different concerns, not just one or even two.
The following is a look head assessment not an analysis or comparison of Daniel Jones in retrospect. In this particular Walter Football instance, can we find instruction despite our now firmly entrenched biases concerning the Giants pre-2019 Draft and more importantly the accuracy of all such predicates of the kind of which we can expect to be deluged in the next three months?
Daniel Jones Scouting Report
By Charlie Campbell
Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Throws a good deep ball
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Upside
Weaknesses:
Will throw into coverage that he shouldn't
Needs to improve timing
Holds the ball too long
Could shorten his delivery
Broken collarbone in 2018
Summary: Duke's head coach, David Cutcliffe, is one of the most valued and respected quarterback gurus in football. He was the coaching mentor to both Peyton and Eli Manning, and at Duke, Cutcliffe provided Jones very good preparation for the NFL over his three years as the Blue Devils' starting quarterback.
As a freshman, Jones connected on 63 percent of his passes for 2,836 yards with 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions. In 2017, he completed 56 percent of his passes for 2,439 yards with 12 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. Jones had his best season in 2018, despite dealing with some injuries. He completed 61 percent of his passes on the year for 2,674 yards with 22 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Many around the league thought Jones would return for his redshirt senior year, but he decided to jump to the next level and declared for the 2019 NFL Draft.
There is a lot to like about Jones, and he has the potential to be a franchise quarterback with his ability to be a pro-style pocket passer. Jones has a strong arm and can really spin the ball. That was clearly seen by area scouts and the rest of the league at the Senior Bowl. Jones has the ability to make all the throws needed for the NFL. He can loft in touch passes downfield and throw some fastballs into tight windows. Jones is very good at putting air underneath his touch passes to drop them in the bucket and throws a very catchable ball.
Jones has been well prepared for the NFL, as he is an intelligent signal-caller. In speaking to one NFC general manager, they really liked how Jones knew where all of his receivers would be and was able to move to them when he had to throw under duress. Jones has quality field vision and works beyond his primary read. He does a decent job of dissecting the coverage the defense is employing, and is able to manipulate coverage with his eyes.
In the face of a rush, Jones stands tall and keeps his eyes downfield while the rush closes in on him. While Jones is not a dynamic runner for the NFL, he does move around pretty well and can pick up some yards on the ground while also being able to buy time through scrambling. Additionally, Jones can make some nice throws on the run. Given the speed of pro defenders, Jones is not a true rushing threat, but he can be functional enough to dodge some sacks and pick up some yards on the ground when nothing is open downfield.
As a passer, Jones does have things to work on for the NFL. He can hold the ball too long and not pull the trigger fast enough. With the speed of pro defenses, Jones has to be more decisive and get the ball out faster when he has an open receiver. Jones' timing should improve with more experience and coaching. There were also too many times when Jones would force some throws into coverage. He can trust his arm too much and sometimes throws passes that he shouldn't. It also wouldn't hurt Jones to shorten his delivery, which will help him to be effective for the faster pro game with its smaller windows of time to complete passes. It would also help him by reducing the time for pass-rushers to get to him.
For the 2019 NFL Draft, Jones looks like a consensus first-round pick from speaking with team sources. He could become a franchise quarterback and be a good pro starter. Three general managers told me they thought that Jones would rise in the leadup to the draft and be the first quarterback taken. Regardless of if he is the initial signal-caller to go off the board, Jones should be a top-20 pick.
Player Comparison: Eli Manning. Jones has the look of a Manning with his strong arm, pocket presence, field vision, and passing polish. In terms of his flaws, Jones is more similar to Eli Manning than Peyton Manning.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on January 26, 2024, 04:01:04 PMThe following is a look head assessment not an analysis or comparison of Daniel Jones in retrospect. In this particular Walter Football instance, can we find instruction despite our now firmly entrenched biases concerning the Giants pre-2019 Draft and more importantly the accuracy of all such predicates of the kind of which we can expect to be deluged in the next three months?
Daniel Jones Scouting Report
By Charlie Campbell
Ha, a lot they know. :what: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what:
Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Throws a good deep ball
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Upside
Weaknesses:
Will throw into coverage that he shouldn't
Needs to improve timing
Holds the ball too long
Could shorten his delivery
Broken collarbone in 2018
Summary: Duke's head coach, David Cutcliffe, is one of the most valued and respected quarterback gurus in football. He was the coaching mentor to both Peyton and Eli Manning, and at Duke, Cutcliffe provided Jones very good preparation for the NFL over his three years as the Blue Devils' starting quarterback.
As a freshman, Jones connected on 63 percent of his passes for 2,836 yards with 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions. In 2017, he completed 56 percent of his passes for 2,439 yards with 12 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. Jones had his best season in 2018, despite dealing with some injuries. He completed 61 percent of his passes on the year for 2,674 yards with 22 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Many around the league thought Jones would return for his redshirt senior year, but he decided to jump to the next level and declared for the 2019 NFL Draft.
There is a lot to like about Jones, and he has the potential to be a franchise quarterback with his ability to be a pro-style pocket passer. Jones has a strong arm and can really spin the ball. That was clearly seen by area scouts and the rest of the league at the Senior Bowl. Jones has the ability to make all the throws needed for the NFL. He can loft in touch passes downfield and throw some fastballs into tight windows. Jones is very good at putting air underneath his touch passes to drop them in the bucket and throws a very catchable ball.
Jones has been well prepared for the NFL, as he is an intelligent signal-caller. In speaking to one NFC general manager, they really liked how Jones knew where all of his receivers would be and was able to move to them when he had to throw under duress. Jones has quality field vision and works beyond his primary read. He does a decent job of dissecting the coverage the defense is employing, and is able to manipulate coverage with his eyes.
In the face of a rush, Jones stands tall and keeps his eyes downfield while the rush closes in on him. While Jones is not a dynamic runner for the NFL, he does move around pretty well and can pick up some yards on the ground while also being able to buy time through scrambling. Additionally, Jones can make some nice throws on the run. Given the speed of pro defenders, Jones is not a true rushing threat, but he can be functional enough to dodge some sacks and pick up some yards on the ground when nothing is open downfield.
As a passer, Jones does have things to work on for the NFL. He can hold the ball too long and not pull the trigger fast enough. With the speed of pro defenses, Jones has to be more decisive and get the ball out faster when he has an open receiver. Jones' timing should improve with more experience and coaching. There were also too many times when Jones would force some throws into coverage. He can trust his arm too much and sometimes throws passes that he shouldn't. It also wouldn't hurt Jones to shorten his delivery, which will help him to be effective for the faster pro game with its smaller windows of time to complete passes. It would also help him by reducing the time for pass-rushers to get to him.
For the 2019 NFL Draft, Jones looks like a consensus first-round pick from speaking with team sources. He could become a franchise quarterback and be a good pro starter. Three general managers told me they thought that Jones would rise in the leadup to the draft and be the first quarterback taken. Regardless of if he is the initial signal-caller to go off the board, Jones should be a top-20 pick.
Player Comparison: Eli Manning. Jones has the look of a Manning with his strong arm, pocket presence, field vision, and passing polish. In terms of his flaws, Jones is more similar to Eli Manning than Peyton Manning.
Cheers!
As has been said, all the potential first-round picks all have some warts. And, that is at the college level. When I hear ball security issues, to me, that is a huge red flag. Once a guy is known for that, he is relentlessly hounded at giving up the ball. When I read need to work on accuracy, I also cringe. I always thought accuracy was a natural trait and could not be taught. You can improve the mechanics, but when a guy isn't accurate in college, he sure will be the same way in the NFL where the rush is always there and you just need to get rid of the ball quickly. I also cringe a bit at thinking maybe one of these guys, who they say has to get rid of the ball quicker, were on the Giants, he would end up getting killed here.
And then with all the hoopla, a guy like Purdy comes along and who gives a darn what was said about him on paper?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 26, 2024, 03:15:50 PMGood short points and stats. Looks like each QB has at least a few warts. Personally, I think Drake Maye is the safest bet. Although I think Bo Nix is the most NFL-ready. It is concerning that most pundits see him as a backup or out of the top 5 class. This one has him at 4. The Huddle Report at 6 and an early second-round pick. The 40 times are high, especially on Daniels who was clocked at a 4.5 and his legs are his attribute.
Ed: Once again we agree about QB's. Maye is the safest bet, but IMO not worth a 1st-round pick as high as the Giants' pick.
And I also see Nix (as of today) as the nearest thing to an NFL QB, but he's also not high 1st-round material.
Lastly, to repeat my mantra, until we have an OL worthy of using a high 1st-round pick on a QB, we should not use a high first-round pick on a QB.
Bob
PS. The rest of the mantra is... use every asset at our disposal to get Harrison, Jr. (obviously, if the Bears want him, it would probably take two future 1st-round picks plus more). I would still do it. Having that guy will suddenly make our three QB's and so-so WR corps shine. And IMO Wan'Dale's gonna shine next year anyway, but pairing him and Slayton with Harrison, Jr., will make it almost impossible for any QB to fail.
PPS. Oops... I forget the unavoidable and irreplaceable third part of the mantra... since the most important goal of the team is to sell as many hot dogs and T-shirts as possible... no player in this draft IMO will sell more of them than Harrison, Jr.
Two lesser prospects that intrigue me.
First, has shade of Josh Allen
7. Tennessee image Joe Milton*, QB, Tennessee
Heeight: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.
1/23/24: Milton started out his collegiate career at Michigan before transferring to Tennessee. With good size and a cannon for an arm, Milton has serious passing talent for the next level. Milton can be deadly when given time, but he does not throw well on the run. In the pocket, Milton can be accurate and challenge defenses at every level. In 2023, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,813 yards, 20 touchdowns and five interceptions. Milton was invited to the Senior Bowl.
The second one sounds like he could be flying under the radar
9. Tulane image Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane
Heeight: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
1/23/24: Pratt was a consistent quarterback for the Green Wave over the last four years. In 2023, he completed 66 percent of his passes for 2,406 yards, 22 touchdowns and five interceptions. In 2022, he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,010 yards, 27 touchdowns and five interceptions.
Pratt has quality size to him. With a strong Senior Bowl performance, he could be a riser for the 2024 NFL Draft.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 27, 2024, 10:19:59 AMTwo lesser prospects that intrigue me.
First, has shade of Josh Allen
7. Tennessee image Joe Milton*, QB, Tennessee
Heeight: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.
1/23/24: Milton started out his collegiate career at Michigan before transferring to Tennessee. With good size and a cannon for an arm, Milton has serious passing talent for the next level. Milton can be deadly when given time, but he does not throw well on the run. In the pocket, Milton can be accurate and challenge defenses at every level. In 2023, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,813 yards, 20 touchdowns and five interceptions. Milton was invited to the Senior Bowl.
The second one sounds like he could be flying under the radar
9. Tulane image Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane
Heeight: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
1/23/24: Pratt was a consistent quarterback for the Green Wave over the last four years. In 2023, he completed 66 percent of his passes for 2,406 yards, 22 touchdowns and five interceptions. In 2022, he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,010 yards, 27 touchdowns and five interceptions.
Pratt has quality size to him. With a strong Senior Bowl performance, he could be a riser for the 2024 NFL Draft.
Rich: Great mention of Pratt!!!
I see him going in the third round to a team that knows what they're doing.
Does that leave us out of the picture? lol
Bob
I don't think a QB is high on the needs list of the Front office. But if Penix fell because of concerns about his injury history, and he was still on the board in the middle rounds, I could see the Giants taking him and then spending a couple of years getting him physically and mentally ready for the NFL. If DJ becomes a star, he'd still be an asset as a backup and perhaps even a big trading card down the road
Probably won't happen, but if he fell and some team was willing to spend a couple of years fixing his injury issues and getting him up to NFL standards, he'd be a steal
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 27, 2024, 10:16:42 AMEd: Once again we agree. Maye is the safest bet, but IMO not worth a 1st-round pick as high as the Giants' pick.
And I also see Nix (as of today) as the nearest thing to an NFL QB, but he's also not high 1st-round material.
Lastly, to repeat my mantra, until we have an OL worthy of using a high 1st-round pick on a QB, we should not use a high first-round pick on a QB.
Bob
PS. The rest of the mantra is... use every asset at our disposal to get Harrison, Jr. (obviously, if the Bears want him, it would probably take two future 1st-round picks plus more). I would still do it. Having that guy will suddenly make our three QB's and so-so WR corps shine. And IMO Wan'Dale's gonna shine next year anyway, but pairing him and Slayton with Harrison, Jr., will make it almost impossible for any QB to fail.
I agree with the Oline issues. Where we may or may not disagree in on the QB. Right now unless DJ has a complete turnaround this season, they will not move on with his contract unless it's re-negotiated and I doubt they would do that unless he can play at backup money. DeVito is not a Franchise QB but can be a backup for this season. Perhaps. They need to take a chance on a QB and I don't see the top bunch dropping to the second round. I'd love to have MHJ but unless they fix that line with Jones, he will not be effective. Tyrod Taylor proved that a decent QB can be somewhat effective with this existing Offense. I see the draft going, Williams, Maye, MHJ, Daniels, Alt, Fashanu, Nabors, Bowers, Nix. They will have a choice of a WR, QB and OT. If they trade up it will be for Maye, imo. I would rather they trade up for that QB next season for Sanders if they were sitting in the same position and I don't have a lot of confidence with a new DC coming on and perhaps losing Kafka too.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 27, 2024, 10:19:59 AMTwo lesser prospects that intrigue me.
First, has shade of Josh Allen
7. Tennessee image Joe Milton*, QB, Tennessee
Heeight: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.
1/23/24: Milton started out his collegiate career at Michigan before transferring to Tennessee. With good size and a cannon for an arm, Milton has serious passing talent for the next level. Milton can be deadly when given time, but he does not throw well on the run. In the pocket, Milton can be accurate and challenge defenses at every level. In 2023, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,813 yards, 20 touchdowns and five interceptions. Milton was invited to the Senior Bowl.
The second one sounds like he could be flying under the radar
9. Tulane image Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane
Heeight: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
1/23/24: Pratt was a consistent quarterback for the Green Wave over the last four years. In 2023, he completed 66 percent of his passes for 2,406 yards, 22 touchdowns and five interceptions. In 2022, he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,010 yards, 27 touchdowns and five interceptions.
Pratt has quality size to him. With a strong Senior Bowl performance, he could be a riser for the 2024 NFL Draft.
Rich - I saw Joe Milton at Michigan. He can throw it to Mars but he can't hit a house from 30 yards. Horrible accuracy. No sense of touch.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 27, 2024, 11:07:08 AMRich - I saw Joe Milton at Michigan. He can throw it to Mars but he can't hit a house from 30 yards. Horrible accuracy. No sense of touch.
That was the knock on Josh when he came out. Under Daboll that was fixed
Quote from: Philosophers on January 27, 2024, 11:07:08 AMRich - I saw Joe Milton at Michigan. He can throw it to Mars but he can't hit a house from 30 yards. Horrible accuracy. No sense of touch.
Phil: That's why accuracy is my number-one quality for a QB. My example is Purdy. He wasn't even on the radar because of lack of some stuff that could be taught or improved with repetition, but he ARRIVED in the NFL with great accuracy. Bob
As I have said before, say we go with Jones and he is having a terrific year, but in reality, with already 2 serious neck injuries, he is basically one good hot away from retiring and getting a medical compensation package. How can we put all our eggs in his basket and NOT prepare for life without him? Come on DeVito isn't the answer. We need a new plan with a healthy QB.
Quote from: LennG on January 27, 2024, 12:09:24 PMAs I have said before, say we go with Jones and he is having a terrific year, but in reality, with already 2 serious neck injuries, he is basically one good hot away from retiring and getting a medical compensation package. How can we put all our eggs in his basket and NOT prepare for life without him? Come on DeVito isn't the answer. We need a new plan with a healthy QB.
Lenn,
I think at this point just about everyone here agrees Jones is not the long term answer for this team. The odds are pretty high he won't be a Giant beyond 2024 and may only play some of the season in 2024.
Still, that doesn't mean you take the 4th or 5th QB off the board with the sixth overall pick if you're only lukewarm on the guy. I'm sure you would agree with that.
We're in QB hell right now. This is what happens when you overdraft and then overpay for a mediocre talent like Jones. Because of those three Tommy Cutlets wins, which did absolutely nothing other than provide some entertainment for a few weeks and a few local Jersey sandwich shops with some nice publicity, we are not in the running for one of the top QBs. Should the use the 6th overall pick to take a middling QB talent? No way. They will need to believe they're getting a franchise-changing player if they use that pick on a QB. Otherwise draft the BPA and worry about QB in free agency and then in next year's draft. The only way around that would be if they can trade up this year, which looks very unlikely.
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 27, 2024, 11:36:22 AMPhil: That's why accuracy is my number-one quality for a QB. My example is Purdy. He wasn't even on the radar because of lack of some stuff that could be taught or improved with repetition, but he ARRIVED in the NFL with great accuracy. Bob
Could not agree more Bob. It's not a completion unless he catches it. Throwing it out of the stadium is just an incompletion.
It should be quite clear that the Giants primary consideration regarding its Quarterback will be to determine whether or not Daniel Jones is to remain as such beyond this year. As most Giants fans seem to have a negative view of DJ, and thus prefer to think of it as his last- fearing only that he might actually perform well enough to make it less than certain- the question becomes, do they look for a true successor now, or simply for a backup in a latter round or FA?
There have been 41 quarterbacks drafted in the 1st Round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it much more affordable to draft a Quarterback.
Those 41 QBs taken in Round 1 have made 1956 starts with a W-L record of 1046-1058-7 which, quite obviously is less than .500, make of it what you will. While that is not to suggest that it defines success in each of those 13 past seasons, the fact is that Patrick Mahomes is the only one of the 41 who has thus far led his team to a Lombardi. Now then, it will be up to 2016 1st overall, Jared Goff or 2018's 32nd overall, Lamar Jackson to make it otherwise. We do see the point in it, no?
In any case, of the 28 not still on their rookie deal, only 11 were given a second contract by the team which drafted them. Either they were cut or their contracts expired. All together, these 41 quarterbacks have played in a total of 215 seasons since being drafted. Yet in only 42 of those 215 seasons (19.5%) did the team that drafted the quarterback make the playoffs.
That's not the sort of thing which compels me to start picking and choosing and pro and conning the 6 or 7 or 8 names being tendered as DJ's potential successor even if we feel that he belongs in that 1 in 5 category while not being able to do more than to define a lack of success.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on January 27, 2024, 03:32:49 PMThere have been 41 quarterbacks drafted in the 1st Round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it much more affordable to draft a Quarterback.
Those 41 QBs taken in Round 1 have made 1956 starts with a W-L record of 1046-1058-7 which, quite obviously is less than .500, make of it what you will. While that is not to suggest that it defines success in each of those 13 past seasons, the fact is that Patrick Mahomes is the only one of the 41 who has thus far led his team to a Lombardi. Now then, it will be up to 2016 1st overall, Jared Goff or 2018's 32nd overall, Lamar Jackson to make it otherwise. We do see the point in it, no?
In any case, of the 28 not still on their rookie deal, only 11 were given a second contract by the team which drafted them. Either they were cut or their contracts expired. All together, these 41 quarterbacks have played in a total of 215 seasons since being drafted. Yet in only 42 of those 215 seasons (19.5%) did the team that drafted the quarterback make the playoffs.
Larry: Many thanks for doing this. I am too lazy to have done such superior leg-work.
My substitute for hard work, has been to keep posting (repeatedly) the bottom line (likely without proving the point to many readers)
Well, there it is: drafting a high-1st-round QB sounds great, but it's much more likely than not to prove to be a losing proposition.
Bob
PS. For doubters, I cite none other than case of our own Daniel Jones. "Insanity" has been defined (probably only semi-seriously) as doing the same thing again and again while expecting a different result than the last time. I do trust Schoen when he's acting alone, but assume (with good reason) the owners will want to get involved, and therefore I'd prefer to take a hard pass. What we have (counting all three QB's from this past season and maybe a free-agent this spring) is plenty good enough to win with a solid and COMPLETE supporting cast... which IMO we still don't have.
Quote from: Painter on January 27, 2024, 03:32:49 PMIt should be quite clear that the Giants primary consideration regarding its Quarterback will be to determine whether or not Daniel Jones is to remain as such beyond this year. As most Giants fans seem to have a negative view of DJ, and thus prefer to think of it as his last- fearing only that he might actually perform well enough to make it less than certain- the question becomes, do they look for a true successor now, or simply for a backup in a latter round or FA?
There have been 41 quarterbacks drafted in the 1st Round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it much more affordable to draft a Quarterback.
Those 41 QBs taken in Round 1 have made 1956 starts with a W-L record of 1046-1058-7 which, quite obviously is less than .500, make of it what you will. While that is not to suggest that it defines success in each of those 13 past seasons, the fact is that Patrick Mahomes is the only one of the 41 who has thus far led his team to a Lombardi. Now then, it will be up to 2016 1st overall, Jared Goff or 2018's 32nd overall, Lamar Jackson to make it otherwise. We do see the point in it, no?
In any case, of the 28 not still on their rookie deal, only 11 were given a second contract by the team which drafted them. Either they were cut or their contracts expired. All together, these 41 quarterbacks have played in a total of 215 seasons since being drafted. Yet in only 42 of those 215 seasons (19.5%) did the team that drafted the quarterback make the playoffs.
That's not the sort of thing which compels me to start picking and choosing and pro and conning the 6 or 7 or 8 names being tendered as DJ's potential successor even if we feel that he belongs in that 1 in 5 category while not being able to do more than to define a lack of success.
Cheers!
Larry,
My views on this issue have evolved over the years. I know believe the failure rate at QB is more a function of teams drafting QBs when they are not in a position to develop them, rather than the prospects are lacking in talent or the NFL is incapable of scouting prospects. Drafted QBs need to be developed. The environment for QBs to develop is behind an NFL-caliber O-line or better, solid receiving targets and a quality, stable coaching environment. Teams that draft QBs while having what is needed to develop a QB prospect tend to enjoy success more often than not, while those lacking the tools to develop a QB will see failure most of the time.
Worse, the QB developmental window does close, so a QB prospect who has the misfortune of being drafted by an ill-prepared team rarely gets a second chance to fully develop with another team. You had posted the scouting report for Daniel Jones, and it was pretty much what most QB reports look like; there are foreseeable paths to success and failure. The teams prepared to develop tend to put their prospects on the path to success, while those not prepared or incapable tend to see their prospects head down that path to failure.
Perhaps the bigger issue is if the Giants are ready to develop a QB. They seem to have the coaches and the receivers but the O-line is a huge issue.
I still like Penix Rich
His last game was a disaster but Michigan was unstoppable. Everyone has a bad game once in a while. His accuracy, quick release and strength are peerless
The Texas game he looked like a QB version of Jim Brown. He would be the perfect candidate to sit behind Jones this year with Devito as #2 or 3.
Work him in for the last few games
I have no faith Jones will re-birth. I think he is shell shocked
and damaged goods
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 28, 2024, 09:47:58 AMI still like Penix Rich
His last game was a disaster but Michigan was unstoppable. Everyone has a bad game once in a while. His accuracy, quick release and strength are peerless
The Texas game he looked like a QB version of Jim Brown. He would be the perfect candidate to sit behind Jones this year with Devito as #2 or 3.
Work him in for the last few games
I have no faith Jones will re-birth. I think he is shell shocked
and damaged goods
You will be able to see more of Pennix at the Senior Bowl. I did a prep post for the Senior Bowl here
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=68917.0
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 28, 2024, 09:50:59 AMYou will be able to see more of Pennix at the Senior Bowl. I did a prep post for the Senior Bowl here
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=68917.0
February 3rd, 2:30 on NFL Network
put it in my Iphone calendar
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 28, 2024, 09:47:58 AMI still like Penix Rich
His last game was a disaster but Michigan was unstoppable. Everyone has a bad game once in a while. His accuracy, quick release and strength are peerless
The Texas game he looked like a QB version of Jim Brown. He would be the perfect candidate to sit behind Jones this year with Devito as #2 or 3.
Work him in for the last few games
I have no faith Jones will re-birth. I think he is shell shocked
and damaged goods
No offense, but this analysis is a disaster. Penix has "peerless" accuracy? His lack of accuracy is one of his biggest minuses. Every one of the top QB prospects except Maye have a higher completion percentage than Penix - Nix by more than 10%.
And DJ is "damaged goods" and yet your answer is Penix and his twice torn ACLs? Makes no sense.
Penix is easily the worst of the top 6 QB prospects with his poor footwork, accuracy woes, and injury history. He's not even on my board.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 28, 2024, 10:08:58 AMNo offense, but this analysis is a disaster. Penix has "peerless" accuracy? His lack of accuracy is one of his biggest minuses. Every one of the top QB prospects except Maye have a higher completion percentage than Penix - Nix by more than 10%.
And DJ is "damaged goods" and yet your answer is Penix and his twice torn ACLs? Makes no sense.
Penix is easily the worst of the top 6 QB prospects with his poor footwork, accuracy woes, and injury history. He's not even on my board.
Don't mind me. Speak to Phil Simms
I like Nix too
Don't care for Dan Jones
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 28, 2024, 03:59:37 PMDon't care for Dan Jones
Yeah, that's fine. But calling him damaged goods then calling for the team to draft someone with 2 torn ACLs makes no sense at all.