His last playoff game looked a lot like his 2nd one where he compiled a bunch of stats; threw costly Ints and fumbled the ball away. He compiles great stats in the reg season and is also playing with a top rated defense, but always seems to have difficulty with throwing and running doesn't seem to be as effective in the playoffs.
Assuming he wins his 2nd MVP this season? I'd have to put that answer at a clear....Never.
Bad gameplanning
Plus as everyone seen
He keep.dropping back and never ran when he had the chance
I think there's a few things here.
1) Lamar hasn't played well overall in the playoffs. In 7 games, 6 TD passes, 6 INTs, 3 rushing TDs (2 against the Texans this year), 3 fumbles lost, and 58% completions. Certainly not his best stuff.
2) He looked confused a bit by whatever KC was doing in the secondary. The formula is to keep him on the pocket and make him play from there. He has shown improvement but still hasn't gotten to a championship level with the current competition...speaking of
3) This era's AFC is going to leave more than one really talented QB without a trip to the Super Bowl. It's a gauntlet with one of the greatest talents we have ever seen in his prime right now. Do we think Josh Allen's critics are right? Mahomes, like Brady is going to keep otherwise great QBs of his era out of a lot of Super Bowls.
Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Jacskon....only 1 gets there over year. Put Lamar in the NFC and you think he has a good shot at a Super Bowl?
I think the criticism is deserved but I don't think the story is over.
John Elway's critics were right until they weren't. The rush to judge a player amazes me. FWIW I would happily take Jackson today.
Yeah he sucks. MVP season, #1 seed. Lost to the burgeoning dynasty led by Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid in the AFC Championship.
Lamar is not the MVP in my eyes. The Ravens defense gave up only 16.5 points a game. They are the real MVP!
Problems I wish we had.
Quote from: Fletch on January 31, 2024, 12:46:25 PMHis last playoff game looked a lot like his 2nd one where he compiled a bunch of stats; threw costly Ints and fumbled the ball away. He compiles great stats in the reg season and is also playing with a top rated defense, but always seems to have difficulty with throwing and running doesn't seem to be as effective in the playoffs.
Would you be one of those critics?
The year he was drafted, I didn't see him as a QB that would ever be successful.
@Bob In PA called it right. He clearly belongs in the elite group of this generation of QB's.
UConn makes a poignant observation about Mahomes and I would include Andy Reid along with him.
Defense wins championships still seems to be true most years. Spagnuolo appears to have the pieces to get that done again this year. Great Defenses can make a great QB exposed.
Another great point is his story isn't over yet. In the meantime 66-33 over his career ain't too shabby. Meaningful games in December and five playoff trips.
Quote from: sooners56 on January 31, 2024, 10:18:43 PMLamar is not the MVP in my eyes. The Ravens defense gave up only 16.5 points a game. They are the real MVP!
So that invalidates Jackson's own MVP numbers, while playing with limited skilled positions? Do we dismiss Phil Simms efforts because he played with an elite defense?
Quote from: Ed Vette on February 01, 2024, 08:11:32 AMWould you be one of those critics?
The year he was drafted, I didn't see him as a QB that would ever be successful. @Bob In PA called it right. He clearly belongs in the elite group of this generation of QB's.
UConn makes a poignant observation about Mahomes and I would include Andy Reid along with him.
Defense wins championships still seems to be true most years. Spagnuolo appears to have the pieces to get that done again this year. Great Defenses can make a great QB exposed.
Another great point is his story isn't over yet. In the meantime 66-33 over his career ain't too shabby. Meaningful games in December and five playoff trips.
That sums up what happened to Lamar this past week. Couple that with Harbaugh not running the ball. Saw a stat somewhere that said Harbaugh is Owen (0 and 30-something) when he runs less than 20 times per game. If that's true, why did no one tell him???
This isn't Spags' first time shutting down a high-powered/scoring offense. The playoffs are a different animal and he just has a knack for shutting down an offense in one-and-done season. Kinda reminds me of Belichick's defenses.
He does suck. Phil Simms never got the credit Lamar did. Joe Montans career earning were equal to 50 mil. That is one year salary for Lamar who cannot play well in the playoffs. He is a running back. His great performances are no more no less as good as other running backs having dominating performances in a game. Mahomes I think is over hyped too. He throws meatballs all the time. I re-watched the some of the 9ers Chiefs SB on the NFL network last night; and it is like this guy cannot put a game winning drive without ref help.
Quote from: Fletch on February 01, 2024, 09:17:10 AMHe does suck. Phil Simms never got the credit Lamar did. Joe Montans career earning were equal to 50 mil. That is one year salary for Lamar who cannot play well in the playoffs. He is a running back. His great performances are no more no less as good as other running backs having dominating performances in a game. Mahomes I think is over hyped too. He throws meatballs all the time. I re-watched the some of the 9ers Chiefs SB on the NFL network last night; and it is like this guy cannot put a game winning drive without ref help.
Oh it's the refs who have made Mahomes so great. Who knew?
Quote from: Fletch on February 01, 2024, 09:17:10 AMHe does suck. Phil Simms never got the credit Lamar did. Joe Montans career earning were equal to 50 mil. That is one year salary for Lamar who cannot play well in the playoffs. He is a running back. His great performances are no more no less as good as other running backs having dominating performances in a game. Mahomes I think is over hyped too. He throws meatballs all the time. I re-watched the some of the 9ers Chiefs SB on the NFL network last night; and it is like this guy cannot put a game winning drive without ref help.
Lamar sucks and Mahomes is overhyped? LOL. Sure thing.
Quote from: kingm56 on February 01, 2024, 08:56:33 AMSo that invalidates Jackson's own MVP numbers, while playing with limited skilled positions? Do we dismiss Phil Simms efforts because he played with an elite defense?
[/quoteQuote from: kingm56 on February 01, 2024, 08:56:33 AMSo that invalidates Jackson's own MVP numbers, while playing with limited skilled positions? Do we dismiss Phil Simms efforts because he played with an elite defense?
I should have explained/wrote more. It does not invalidate Jackson's MVP numbers but what it does is, allow the Ravens to beat the 49ers, which gave Jackson the nod over Purdy as MVP. That Ravens D gave up 19 points to the 49ers and intercepted Purdy 4 times. That D was fantastic. As was Jackson.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 01, 2024, 10:34:50 AMLamar sucks and Mahomes is overhyped? LOL. Sure thing.
And the Super Bowl is rigged. Taylor Swift put the fix in. Facts.
Quote from: katkavage on February 01, 2024, 11:21:50 AMAnd the Super Bowl is rigged. Taylor Swift put the fix in. Facts.
Damn! You let the cat out of the bag, now!
Why even bother watching the big show now?
=))
Peace!
IMO, Spags won the game. It had almost nothing to do with Jackson, compared to the great job by Spags.
The last time the Ravens played the Chiefs with Spags as DC was at Baltimore in the 2020 regular season.
In that game, the Raven's were only able to hang in there at all because Jackson ran the ball well.
Passing - Jackson 15/28 for 97 yards, one TD, zero INT's.
Running - Jackson 9 rushes for 83 yards. The rest of the team - 12 rushes for 75 yards total.
Jackson WAS the offense in that game, and the Ravens lost at home by 14 points.
The result was somewhat predictable. I was surprised the Ravens lost on Sunday until after I re-watched the 2020 game.
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on February 01, 2024, 12:18:16 PMIMO, Spags won the game. It had almost nothing to do with Jackson, compared to the great job by Spags.
The last time the Ravens played the Chiefs with Spags as DC was at Baltimore in the 2020 regular season.
In that game, the Raven's were only able to hang in there at all because Jackson ran the ball well.
Passing - Jackson 15/28 for 97 yards, one TD, zero INT's.
Running - Jackson 9 rushes for 83 yards. The rest of the team - 12 rushes for 75 yards total.
Jackson WAS the offense in that game, and the Ravens lost at home by 14 points.
The result was somewhat predictable. I was surprised the Ravens lost on Sunday until after I re-watched the 2020 game.
Bob
Agreed that Spags won that game with an impeccable game plan. But I will also add that for as good as Spags' game plan was, the Ravens' offensive game plan was equally bad. Quite possibly the worst game plan I've ever seen in a championship game.
What happens if Zay Flowers holds on to the ball for a fraction of a second and crosses the goal line? What happens if the normally disciplined Ravens dont have all these stupid penalties that extended drives? Its never 1 reason why a game is won or lost. But the most nonsensical reason I've heard is Lamar sucks. I agree 100% with the post above that Elway couldn't do it until he did it. How old is Lamar?
Quote from: nb587 on February 01, 2024, 12:54:40 PMWhat happens if Zay Flowers holds on to the ball for a fraction of a second and crosses the goal line? What happens if the normally disciplined Ravens dont have all these stupid penalties that extended drives? Its never 1 reason why a game is won or lost. But the most nonsensical reason I've heard is Lamar sucks. I agree 100% with the post above that Elway couldn't do it until he did it. How old is Lamar?
It's such a ridiculous take that it's surprising we've even gotten to a 2nd page with responses.
Quote from: Gmo11 on February 01, 2024, 12:57:34 PMIt's such a ridiculous take that it's surprising we've even gotten to a 2nd page with responses.
I'm not. The more ridiculous stuff one posts, the more replies you get. This board loves to take the bait and falls so easily to boarderline troll-ish posts.
Quote from: TDToomer on February 01, 2024, 01:33:02 PMI'm not. The more ridiculous stuff one posts, the more replies you get. This board loves to take the bait and falls so easily to boarderline troll-ish posts.
I agree with you, just take out the word boarderline.
Quote from: Bob In PA on February 01, 2024, 12:18:16 PMIMO, Spags won the game. It had almost nothing to do with Jackson, compared to the great job by Spags.
The last time the Ravens played the Chiefs with Spags as DC was at Baltimore in the 2020 regular season.
In that game, the Raven's were only able to hang in there at all because Jackson ran the ball well.
Passing - Jackson 15/28 for 97 yards, one TD, zero INT's.
Running - Jackson 9 rushes for 83 yards. The rest of the team - 12 rushes for 75 yards total.
Jackson WAS the offense in that game, and the Ravens lost at home by 14 points.
The result was somewhat predictable. I was surprised the Ravens lost on Sunday until after I re-watched the 2020 game.
Bob
All joking aside from me, Spags had an excellent game plan but his players played lights out, to the point of nearly injuring themselves, to make plays to stop the Ravens, which demonstrated who wanted it more on Sunday afternoon.
The Ravens' losing had less to do with Jackson than it did with his entire team letting him down with poor execution, lack of discipline with stupid penalties, turning the ball over at the most inopportune times and playing right into Spags' defensive trap.
In all, it was a most impressive body of work by Andy Reid. In contrast, however, John Harbaugh had me scratching my head as his team was completely owned on Sunday and I suppose I expected more from him to get them to bounce back in the second half. But it's a relatively young group with excellent individual talent in all three phases so it's safe to say they'll be back here again soon enough and more mature the next time around.
Peace!
Quote from: nb587 on February 01, 2024, 12:54:40 PMWhat happens if Zay Flowers holds on to the ball for a fraction of a second and crosses the goal line? What happens if the normally disciplined Ravens dont have all these stupid penalties that extended drives? Its never 1 reason why a game is won or lost. But the most nonsensical reason I've heard is Lamar sucks. I agree 100% with the post above that Elway couldn't do it until he did it. How old is Lamar?
nb: Thanks for reminding me! Ravens had two self-inflicted serious wounds that had nothing to do w/Jackson. Bob
And what about the titans game and what about them missing the playoffs last year? You cannot call this guy a great qb who plays poorly in the post season. If you want to give slags credit have at it .... What about the other times?
Also has there been a SB where the chiefs won without PI or personal foul or some BS call at the end of the game ? The 9 era four years ago ; the holding against the eagles . The is no doubt this is a manufactured dynasty with soap opera drama famous cheerleaders and all that... pay per view wildcards
Manufactured? Like fixed?
Mods, may be time to shut this one down.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on February 01, 2024, 05:19:14 PMManufactured? Like fixed?
Mods, may be time to shut this one down.
People are entitled to their conspiracy theories. Where would we be today without them? :laugh:
Quote from: katkavage on February 01, 2024, 05:23:10 PMPeople are entitled to their conspiracy theories. Where would we be today without them? :laugh:
Was nba fixed for Jordan ? He got all the calls in his favor though right?
Well.there.is still.time.but with.mahomes there its like.jordan
You can say brady but brady had petyon and the ravens always played them.tough
I dont see anyone like that now
Maybe burrow but hes been hurt and he had an amazing offsense
Speaking of elway
The 3 teams he faced in the superbowl werent losing to anyone
The nfc east lockdown the whole league for years
You won the nfc east
You won the superbowl
Quote from: Fletch on February 01, 2024, 05:34:27 PMWas nba fixed for Jordan ? He got all the calls in his favor though right?
Oh yeah. Without those calls he was just another John Starks.
Quote from: katkavage on February 01, 2024, 06:37:18 PMOh yeah. Without those calls he was just another John Starks.
I do not remember there ever was a time when the refs bailed him out on the final posession of a game. He made his shots when he had to. I really am not convonced Mahomes and the Chiefs could.
So 49ers super bowl incomplete pass to Kelce instead of PI. Eagles SB -- the BS hold at the end of the game.
Quote from: nb587 on February 01, 2024, 01:52:25 PMI agree with you, just take out the word boarderline.
I know. What a horrible spelling error!
Quote from: Fletch on February 01, 2024, 04:58:26 PMAnd what about the titans game and what about them missing the playoffs last year? You cannot call this guy a great qb who plays poorly in the post season. If you want to give slags credit have at it .... What about the other times?
Also has there been a SB where the chiefs won without PI or personal foul or some BS call at the end of the game ? The 9 era four years ago ; the holding against the eagles . The is no doubt this is a manufactured dynasty with soap opera drama famous cheerleaders and all that... pay per view wildcards
So you started this thread with Lamar not being the guy because he cannot get over the hump in the playoffs. I agree his play in the playoffs is not good.
Then the discussion turns to the NFL manufacturing Mahomes success and aiding him with penalties.
So, if Mahomes success is manufactured by the NFL, then are Lamar's failures also be manufactured by the NFL? Seems like they would have to be if the NFL is helping his opponent win.
:-??
Quote from: uconnjack8 on February 02, 2024, 11:26:45 AMSo you started this thread with Lamar not being the guy because he cannot get over the hump in the playoffs. I agree his play in the playoffs is not good.
Then the discussion turns to the NFL manufacturing Mahomes success and aiding him with penalties.
So, if Mahomes success is manufactured by the NFL, then are Lamar's failures also be manufactured by the NFL? Seems like they would have to be if the NFL is helping his opponent win.
:-??
=D>
Quote from: uconnjack8 on February 02, 2024, 11:26:45 AMSo you started this thread with Lamar not being the guy because he cannot get over the hump in the playoffs. I agree his play in the playoffs is not good.
Then the discussion turns to the NFL manufacturing Mahomes success and aiding him with penalties.
So, if Mahomes success is manufactured by the NFL, then are Lamar's failures also be manufactured by the NFL? Seems like they would have to be if the NFL is helping his opponent win.
:-??
No on the Lamar Conspiracy thing. They are both over-hyped though, and not as good / over--rated.