I heard the one on McCarthy as well (via podcast), and I will post it on YouTube as soon as it's up. Here is the first one
He might just be the best total QB in this draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the first off the board taken.
I take everything Matt Simms says about quarterbacks with a grain of salt. He was head over heels in love with Kellen Mond. Called him the steal of the draft and a guy who was going to be in the league a long time. He didn't even make it to the end of his rookie season before being cut because he sucked so bad.
Quote from: madbadger on February 29, 2024, 01:28:15 PMI take everything Matt Simms says about quarterbacks with a grain of salt. He was head over heels in love with Kellen Mond. Called him the steal of the draft and a guy who was going to be in the league a long time. He didn't even make it to the end of his rookie season before being cut because he sucked so bad.
That's Chris Simms, not Matt Simms
Quote from: madbadger on February 29, 2024, 01:28:15 PMI take everything Matt Simms says about quarterbacks with a grain of salt. He was head over heels in love with Kellen Mond. Called him the steal of the draft and a guy who was going to be in the league a long time. He didn't even make it to the end of his rookie season before being cut because he sucked so bad.
On a bigger picture note, I fail to see the point in demonizing or praising a person based off of one player they scouted. The reality is the best NFL GMs and Scouts are far from perfect. If they are batting 500, they are considered great.
Here is Chris Simms's work over the years. Just like GMs (and everyone else) he got some QBs right and others wrong.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-YLY_WAVWSDm4W0PpFIQEvZ1QoFYOprLjo8rG_UWzQo/edit#gid=1462134302
HOF GM Bill Polian
"The historical data is clear, 68 percent of first-round quarterbacks between 2009 and 2016 failed."It's fair to say if someone is hitting on QB scouting at better than .500 they are a genius.
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 29, 2024, 01:40:30 PMOn a bigger picture note, I fail to see the point in demonizing or praising a person based off of one player they scouted. The reality is the best NFL GMs and Scouts are far from perfect. If they are batting 500, they are considered great.
Here is Chris Simms's work over the years. Just like GMs (and everyone else) he got some QBs right and others wrong.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-YLY_WAVWSDm4W0PpFIQEvZ1QoFYOprLjo8rG_UWzQo/edit#gid=1462134302
HOF GM Bill Polian
"The historical data is clear, 68 percent of first-round quarterbacks between 2009 and 2016 failed."
It's fair to say if someone is hitting on QB scouting at better than .500 they are a genius.
Who is demonizing anyone here? You're better than to use careless language like that Rich.
Saying that you take someone's position with a grain of salt is not saying that person is stupid, worthless or irrelevant. It's just acknowledging that the person in question has said or done something in the past that gives you pause. In this case he was very adamant about Mond being potentially the best quarterback in the draft when in reality he was so spectacularly bad that even as a third round pick he only made it a month into his rookie year before the Vikings said we've seen enough. My reluctance isn't due to him being wrong, we all get things wrong. It has everything to do with being spectacularly wrong on a subject that you're supposed to be a subject matter expert. It's not like drugs, gambling or women caused his downfall, it was because he was hot garbage at being a quarterback.
Does that make him wrong on all other quarterbacks? Nope. Never said it did. Does it give me pause when he offers an opinion on the same subject going forward? Absolutely. Are you obligated to share my opinion? Nope.
Quote from: Ed Vette on February 29, 2024, 09:13:39 AMHe might just be the best total QB in this draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the first off the board taken.
I agree ED.....I think Williams is going to be a bust, I am getting a bad feeling about Maye as well. Daniels would be my #1 QB if I were to choose.
If 69% of the 1st round QB's fail, why would you want to trade away the farm to move up and pick one. Doesn't that compound your mistake?
Quote from: jimc on February 29, 2024, 04:32:04 PMIf 69% of the 1st round QB's fail, why would you want to trade away the farm to move up and pick one. Doesn't that compound your mistake?
Exactly
Quote from: jimc on February 29, 2024, 04:32:04 PMIf 69% of the 1st round QB's fail, why would you want to trade away the farm to move up and pick one. Doesn't that compound your mistake?
between 2009 and 2016 there were horrible classes.
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 29, 2024, 01:40:30 PMOn a bigger picture note, I fail to see the point in demonizing or praising a person based off of one player they scouted. The reality is the best NFL GMs and Scouts are far from perfect. If they are batting 500, they are considered great.
Here is Chris Simms's work over the years. Just like GMs (and everyone else) he got some QBs right and others wrong.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-YLY_WAVWSDm4W0PpFIQEvZ1QoFYOprLjo8rG_UWzQo/edit#gid=1462134302
HOF GM Bill Polian
"The historical data is clear, 68 percent of first-round quarterbacks between 2009 and 2016 failed."
It's fair to say if someone is hitting on QB scouting at better than .500 they are a genius.
Based on my own calculation and a generous rating of 1st Round QBs "success" during the most recent decade (2014-2023)-including some favorable projection- I found a success rate of just 44.4 percent and so also <.500.
While we are finally beginning to fully appreciate just how uncertain is the future success of QBs chosen in the 1st Round, there is a distinction to be made between the benefit/liability burden for GMs and Scouts versus that of a too often publicly whooping and bashing attention seeker who's more interested in bragging after than flagging before. So, whether or not there is much difference in accuracy, there certainly is in terms of impact and consequence.
Cheers!
Quote from: jimc on February 29, 2024, 04:32:04 PMIf 69% of the 1st round QB's fail, why would you want to trade away the farm to move up and pick one. Doesn't that compound your mistake?
Are you happy the Giants traded for Eli Manning?
Quote from: kingm56 on February 29, 2024, 05:14:34 PMAre you happy the Giants traded for Eli Manning?
That's hard to say. We don't know how the team would have done with Big Ben or Rivers and extra draft capital
Quote from: kingm56 on February 29, 2024, 05:14:34 PMAre you happy the Giants traded for Eli Manning?
Happy, yes. But they traded players not Draft picks only when it became clear that Archie Manning was insisting upon it. Had it not happened that way, the Giants would have taken the equally-some might say more- successful Ben Rothlisberger at 4 and for a lot lower cost. C'est la vie, say the old folks. You just never can tell.
Cheers!
How many QBs are busts cause they got drafted by the wrong team
Before mccvay saved Goff he was going into the bust column
Quote from: ralphpal1 on February 29, 2024, 06:44:02 PMHow many QBs are busts cause they got drafted by the wrong team
Before mccvay saved Goff he was going into the bust column
?? I think you have Goff confused with another QB. Goff was Pro Bowl QB by his second year. MCCVAY actually traded him; so, I'm not sure how he saved his career? BL: With the exception of his first year in Det, Goff has been a really good QB in LA and DET. Again, with the exception of 2021, Goff has had very good/consistent objective numbers for 7 seasons now. He's actually played better without the aforementioned McCvay; so, I'm a little confused by your comment.
Quote from: kingm56 on February 29, 2024, 05:14:34 PMAre you happy the Giants traded for Eli Manning?
Of course, but that was a draft day trade.
Quote from: kingm56 on February 29, 2024, 07:22:09 PM?? I think you have Goff confused with another QB. Goff was Pro Bowl QB by his second year. MCCVAY actually traded him; so, I'm not sure how he saved his career? BL: With the exception of his first year in Det, Goff has been a really good QB in LA and DET. Again, with the exception of 2021, Goff has had very good/consistent objective numbers for 7 seasons now. He's actually played better without the aforementioned McCvay; so, I'm a little confused by your comment.
Why was the trade made?
Quote from: ralphpal1 on February 29, 2024, 06:44:02 PMHow many QBs are busts cause they got drafted by the wrong team
Before mccvay saved Goff he was going into the bust column
I wouldn't say the "wrong team." I would say a team not good enough to develop them. Talented teams have a much better hit rate on QBs than the bad teams.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 08:10:11 AM
Pretty good evaluation. I agree that I want to see him at the Combine. His ability to throw on the run is huge and it's what Daniel Jones can't do well and it hurts him. It's not an easy task to make third down throws when the Defense is expecting it. I said he would be a good fit for the Giants because he can sit a year and learn. I don't see him making it past the first round because there are teams that need a QB and will draft him well before the end of round one. I think the Giants would have to trade up from the Second round and quite frankly, I can see them taking him at six if the top three are taken. It won't be popular with some but if he can be a Franchise QB in 2-3 years, it will pay off. The naysayers will point to Jones, but McCarthy is much more NFL proven than Jones was.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 01, 2024, 08:53:42 AMPretty good evaluation. I agree that I want to see him at the Combine. His ability to throw on the run is huge and it's what Daniel Jones can't do well and it hurts him. It's not an easy task to make third down throws when the Defense is expecting it. I said he would be a good fit for the Giants because he can sit a year and learn. I don't see him making it past the first round because there are teams that need a QB and will draft him well before the end of round one. I think the Giants would have to trade up from the Second round and quite frankly, I can see them taking him at six if the top three are taken. It won't be popular with some but if he can be a Franchise QB in 2-3 years, it will pay off. The naysayers will point to Jones, but McCarthy is much more NFL proven than Jones was was.
What impresses me about McCarthy is not just his ability to throw on the run, but I see him often directing traffic as he is scrambling. The ability to stay cool under the pressure that caused you to scramble and have your wits about you (you need that to be directing traffic) is a valuable trait for a QB.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 08:55:38 AMWhat impresses me about McCarthy is not just his ability to throw on the run, but I see him often directing traffic as he is scrambling. The ability to stay cool under the pressure that caused you to scramble and have your wits about you (you need that to be directing traffic) is a valuable trait for a QB.
He doesn't freeze and lock on to one target when he's moving. Jones is looking for a Receiver to come back and McCarthy as well as the top three are seeing the field.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 01, 2024, 08:59:38 AMHe doesn't freeze and lock on to one target when he's moving. Jones is looking for a Receiver to come back and McCarthy as well as the top three are seeing the field.
I don't scout QBs by measuring them against Daniel Jones. I look at what a QB does when the pressure gets them. Can they maneuver in the pocket to buy time? If they can, that's a big plus. I see McCarthy do a pretty good job moving in the pocket (and he is willing to take the big hit to complete the pass). I look at what they do when they scramble. Many QBs, when they scramble, will tuck in and run (with maybe the occasional throw if they see a wide-open receiver. Other QBs, like McCarthy, scramble, but as they are running, they are working out in their head how to throw the ball (they may end up running, but their preference is still to throw). I think defenses struggle with the latter. It's hard to defend a QB leaving the pocket when you still need to honor your coverage assignments and can't assist in stopping the QB if he decides to run (until they are well past the line of scrimmage).
Quote from: madbadger on February 29, 2024, 04:03:54 PMWho is demonizing anyone here? You're better than to use careless language like that Rich.
Saying that you take someone's position with a grain of salt is not saying that person is stupid, worthless or irrelevant. It's just acknowledging that the person in question has said or done something in the past that gives you pause. In this case he was very adamant about Mond being potentially the best quarterback in the draft when in reality he was so spectacularly bad that even as a third round pick he only made it a month into his rookie year before the Vikings said we've seen enough. My reluctance isn't due to him being wrong, we all get things wrong. It has everything to do with being spectacularly wrong on a subject that you're supposed to be a subject matter expert. It's not like drugs, gambling or women caused his downfall, it was because he was hot garbage at being a quarterback.
Does that make him wrong on all other quarterbacks? Nope. Never said it did. Does it give me pause when he offers an opinion on the same subject going forward? Absolutely. Are you obligated to share my opinion? Nope.
Chris Simms has ranked and given opinions on dozens of QB prospects over the year. He ranked (as my link showed) Mound 4 that year. Still, you comment had certain had subtext that can't be ignored. Essentially you claimed we should have doubts about Simms' scouting assessments (or as you put it "take them with a grain of salt) because he got one wrong. That requires the assumption that the only experts that one should have skeptical of their reports (the definition of take with a grain of salt) is someone who is 100% perfect in their assessments and such a person doesn't exist.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 05, 2024, 07:05:08 PM
Like I've said, the most NFL ready QB of this draft and the most underrated. Don't discount this man.
One thing I like about JJ is that he leads his team and they rally and play for him. I guarantee you if he takes a cheap shot, his teammates will go after the defensive player. Not all QBs get that from their team because of the poor chemistry they have with them. JJ will never blame others. JJ is the first to lift up a player with positive encouragement if he messed up Teammates notice that and play harder for a QB who is like that.
Daniel Jones is so quiet and does not seem to lift his team up with words and encouragement as a leader. He does not blame but he does not lead.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 06, 2024, 08:07:02 AMOne thing I like about JJ is that he leads his team and they rally and play for him. I guarantee you if he takes a cheap shot, his teammates will go after the defensive player. Not all QBs get that from their team because of the poor chemistry they have with them. JJ will never blame others. JJ is the first to lift up a player with positive encouragement if he messed up Teammates notice that and play harder for a QB who is like that.
Daniel Jones is so quiet and does not seem to lift his team up with words and encouragement as a leader. He does not blame but he does not lead.
It's why the team responded and played so well for Cutlets.
Since this has become a push JJ Forum, I'll also say that Bo Nix also has the same characteristics and he didn't dodge his Bowl Game like a couple of the others to risk not getting hurt. He played for his teammates and to go out a winner. Just for balance. ;)
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 05, 2024, 09:39:04 PMLike I've said, the most NFL ready QB of this draft and the most underrated. Don't discount this man.
I agree with what SimmsX2 said. He's probably the safest pick. I don't think he will ever be an elite QB, but he will be a solid QB, the type you can win games with. From all I hear, he might be someone the Giants could grab if they trade back into the tail end of round one.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 06, 2024, 08:18:54 AMI agree with what SimmsX2 said. He's probably the safest pick. I don't think he will ever be an elite QB, but he will be a solid QB, the type you can win games with. From all I hear, he might be someone the Giants could grab if they trade back into the tail end of round one.
If they trade down, they can get Nix or Penix and Alt and Legette. Instant upgrade. Trade down and get another second and then trade up.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 06, 2024, 08:26:55 AMIf they trade down, they can get Nix or Penix and Alt and Legette. Instant upgrade. Trade down and get another second and then trade up.
I like Fuaga a lot.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 06, 2024, 08:13:21 AMIt's why the team responded and played so well for Cutlets.
Since this has become a push JJ Forum, I'll also say that Bo Nix also has the same characteristics and he didn't dodge his Bowl Game like a couple of the others to risk not getting hurt. He played for his teammates and to go out a winner. Just for balance. ;)
I am saying that as an observation Inhad watching so many Michigan games not because I am a Michigan or JJ fan.
I absolutely love Blake Corum as a Michigan fan but I don't want the Giants to draft him because he caught so few passes as opposed to Donovan Edwards who was used a lot as a pass catching RB. Giants need a pass catching RB in addition to being a good rusher.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 06, 2024, 08:13:21 AMIt's why the team responded and played so well for Cutlets.
Since this has become a push JJ Forum, I'll also say that Bo Nix also has the same characteristics and he didn't dodge his Bowl Game like a couple of the others to risk not getting hurt. He played for his teammates and to go out a winner. Just for balance. ;)
How about giving credit where credit is due? The people you accused of pushing to make this a "JJ forum" knew what they were talking about in their assessments of the young, talented signal caller. Everything we said would happen happened.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 06, 2024, 08:45:43 AMI am saying that as an observation Inhad watching so many Michigan games not because I am a Michigan or JJ fan.
I absolutely love Blake Corum as a Michigan fan but I don't want the Giants to draft him because he caught so few passes as opposed to Donovan Edwards who was used a lot as a pass catching RB. Giants need a pass catching RB in addition to being a good rusher.
I jest... that's all.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 06, 2024, 08:26:55 AMIf they trade down, they can get Nix or Penix and Alt and Legette. Instant upgrade. Trade down and get another second and then trade up.
I don't want Penix. It's the age thing, and paying a premium(high pick) for a dented Porsche.
Quote from: files58 on March 06, 2024, 11:08:23 AMI don't want Penix. It's the age thing, and paying a premium(high pick) for a dented Porsche.
I get that. I was uneasy about him too a few weeks ago. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise because the future in uncertain.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 06, 2024, 01:20:56 PMI get that. I was uneasy about him too a few weeks ago. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise because the future in uncertain.
I'm not a fan of Penix; however, if the Giants could move back, pickup 2x 1st round picks, and draft Nix in early round 2, I'd signup for that deal!
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