https://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1765380148361130411?s=20
Are you interrupting this as legitimacy to the reporting the Giants are done with DJ? He seems to be using said reporting as the basis for his narrative. I would forgo expressing such views until the Giants have made thier intentions clear; specifically, if they draft a QB, his rant has legitimacy.
Not sure I saw that as a "treatment" of Daniel Jones commentary as much as it is just ripping the FO for putting out an awful team.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 06, 2024, 12:04:31 PMhttps://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1765380148361130411?s=20
Mighty,
He makes some great points.
He first nails it with Brian Daboll.
Last year he is coach of the year, the next year he has all of this turmoil, people wanting to leave, because he didn't have success the following year.
Then DJ played very well in 2022, but sustains multiple injuries to himself and his offensive line in 2023. Opening 5 games were an absolute buzzsaw, and the majority of fans and possibly ownership want him gone.
This has the making of a knee jerk reaction, and could have the makings of what the Jets did by drafting Zack Wilson, he wasn't the answer either.
I fear the Giants are headed in a similar path.
There's some sour grapes here. He interviewed for the GM job and didn't get it. 2 GM's, 3 coaches, the one constant is Mara. Mara opens his mouth, says we did everything to screw him up, and then goes ahead and "compensates" Jones with the contract. I've said this before, and firmly believe that the contract was Mara's doing, the two year out was a compromise. Mara lives in a much different world than we fans. No matter the W-L record the team makes ooodles of $$$$. A couple of months ago I compiled a W-L record since 65' the year I became a fan. They are about 50 games under .500 since then. An historically losing franchise. The one constant, the Maras. Take a moment to think about that. He can throw all the chairs he wants, these facts remain. TC a terrific coach, and a better man, avoided shaking Mara's hand at his exit speech. What does that tell you?
Quote from: files58 on March 06, 2024, 01:33:33 PMThere's some sour grapes here. He interviewed for the GM job and didn't get it. 2 GM's, 3 coaches, the one constant is Mara. Mara opens his mouth, says we did everything to screw him up, and then goes ahead and "compensates" Jones with the contract. I've said this before, and firmly believe that the contract was Mara's doing, the two year out was a compromise. Mara lives in a much different world than we fans. No matter the W-L record the team makes ooodles of $$$$. A couple of months ago I compiled a W-L record since 65' the year I became a fan. They are about 50 games under .500 since then. An historically losing franchise. The one constant, the Maras. Take a moment to think about that. He can throw all the chairs he wants, these facts remain. TC a terrific coach, and a better man, avoided shaking Mara's hand at his exit speech. What does that tell you?
"Sour grapes", or is he wondering why he lost out to David Gettleman?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 06, 2024, 01:38:10 PM"Sour grapes", or is he wondering why he lost out to David Gettleman?
To be fair, we would probably be a perineal loser under Riddick's leadership too. Didn't he criticize DG for drafting Jones over Haskins? Regardless, he's an effective talking-head, but there's probably a reason he's failed to secure a GM job after interest from the Giants.
I do believe there's some validity to his comments; however, I think it's also fair to conclude that signing DJ was also a knee-jerk reaction to a single good (not great) season. I also concur with
@files58; I truly believe Mara was either implicitly or explicitly involved and the 2-year out was the compromise.
Jones at this time is a physically compromised QB, albeit extremely well compensated. His QB shortcomings have been discussed here ad nauseum. No QB, or player is perfect. It's the injuries, ankle, knee, but most important the twice injured neck that gives me the most pause. The next one(hope it doesn't happen) could be life altering. That fact hasto give Jones pause. Human nature dictates so. That's why we need a new QB.
Quote from: files58 on March 06, 2024, 01:58:43 PMJones at this time is a physically compromised QB, albeit extremely well compensated. His QB shortcomings have been discussed here ad nauseum. No QB, or player is perfect. It's the injuries, ankle, knee, but most important the twice injured neck that gives me the most pause. The next one(hope it doesn't happen) could be life altering. That fact hasto give Jones pause. Human nature dictates so. That's why we need a new QB.
A lot was made about the two years and our "escape" clause in DJs. Critics assume that it was put there because the Giants' brass was unsure of DJ's talent. It's equally plausible that it was put there because there were concerns about DJ's neck that were not shared with the general public.
Those who can, do. Those that can't do something else. Joe Schoen is a young GM and I expected him to make some mistakes, but his story ain't over yet. Riddick's is. He's old news.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 06, 2024, 02:08:39 PMThose who can, do. Those that can't do something else. Joe Schoen is a young GM and I expected him to make some mistakes, but his story ain't over yet. Riddick's is. He's old news.
Not everyone can meet the Adam Schein standards ;)
When I listen to opinions, I don't seek out ones that I agree with; Rather, I seek out those being voiced by people who are qualified to voice them. Adam Schein has zero qualifications and seems to know less about football than many people here. On the other hand, former NFL safety Louis Reddick has the credentials.
As a player:
San Francisco 49ers (1991)*
Sacramento Surge (1992)
Atlanta Falcons (1992)
Cleveland Browns (1993–1995)
Atlanta Falcons (1996)
Oakland Raiders (1998)
Orlando Rage (2001)
* Offseason and/or practice squad member only
As an executive:
Washington Redskins (2001–2004)
Pro scout
Washington Redskins (2005–2007)
Director of pro personnel
Philadelphia Eagles (2008)
Pro scout
Philadelphia Eagles (2009)
Assistant director of pro personnel
Philadelphia Eagles (2010–2013)
Director of pro personnel
Riddick later joined ESPN as an analyst.[5] In 2020, he became an announcer for ESPN's coverage of Monday Night Football.[6]
In December 2020, various sources reported Riddick was being interviewed for the GM vacancies for both the Houston Texans and Detroit Lions.[7]
In February 2022, the Pittsburgh Steelers announced that they would be interviewing Riddick for their GM vacancy.[8]
At the sight of Adam Schein I immediately change the channel. Unfortunately sometimes I hear a word or two before that happens.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 06, 2024, 02:14:46 PMNot everyone can meet the Adam Schein standards ;)
When I listen to opinions, I don't seek out ones that I agree with; Rather, I seek out those being voiced by people who are qualified to voice them. Adam Schein has zero qualifications and seems to know less about football than many people here. On the other hand, former NFL safety Louis Reddick has the credentials.
As a player:
San Francisco 49ers (1991)*
Sacramento Surge (1992)
Atlanta Falcons (1992)
Cleveland Browns (1993–1995)
Atlanta Falcons (1996)
Oakland Raiders (1998)
Orlando Rage (2001)
* Offseason and/or practice squad member only
As an executive:
Washington Redskins (2001–2004)
Pro scout
Washington Redskins (2005–2007)
Director of pro personnel
Philadelphia Eagles (2008)
Pro scout
Philadelphia Eagles (2009)
Assistant director of pro personnel
Philadelphia Eagles (2010–2013)
Director of pro personnel
Riddick later joined ESPN as an analyst.[5] In 2020, he became an announcer for ESPN's coverage of Monday Night Football.[6]
In December 2020, various sources reported Riddick was being interviewed for the GM vacancies for both the Houston Texans and Detroit Lions.[7]
In February 2022, the Pittsburgh Steelers announced that they would be interviewing Riddick for their GM vacancy.[8]
And when I want your opinion, I'll ask for it.
Louis is absolutely right. His comments are among the most intelligent I have heard about Daniel Jones and the Giants.
The problem is if you believe you made a mistake you have to change course, which creates more instability in the short term.
The actions and inactions so far suggest Schoen believes this is a full rebuild not a tinker and retool. That tends to suggest he thinks his DJ decision was wrong. Free Agency might put a slightly different perspective on things but for now I am thinking rebuild.
If we can get a QB we will. If we cannot we will try to give a future QB protection and weapons whilst fielding a D that can stop us being regularly embarrassed if the O sucks.
Today we are one of the 2-3 least talented rosters in the NFL. Even a really solid FA and inspired draft will not make us contenders. The Jones decision cost us a year and reduced our cap resources. Unfortunate and of course it will slow things down but it is done and now Schoen has to be clear-eyed with his priorities and decisions. So far, so sensible with Saquon and McKinney.
Quote from: londonblue on March 06, 2024, 05:33:23 PMThe problem is if you believe you made a mistake you have to change course, which creates more instability in the short term.
The actions and inactions so far suggest Schoen believes this is a full rebuild not a tinker and retool. That tends to suggest he thinks his DJ decision was wrong. Free Agency might put a slightly different perspective on things but for now I am thinking rebuild.
If we can get a QB we will. If we cannot we will try to give a future QB protection and weapons whilst fielding a D that can stop us being regularly embarrassed if the O sucks.
Today we are one of the 2-3 least talented rosters in the NFL. Even a really solid FA and inspired draft will not make us contenders. The Jones decision cost us a year and reduced our cap resources. Unfortunate and of course it will slow things down but it is done and now Schoen has to be clear-eyed with his priorities and decisions. So far, so sensible with Saquon and McKinney.
Your post reminded me of the sunk cost fallacy. If the Giants do draft a QB and allow McKinney and Barkley to walk via FA, then I don't know whatever interruption there is, other than the one you outlined. As a fan who's been frustrated by the Giants current strategy of trotting out the same core group of players and expecting a different result, appreciate their willingness to truly move this roster in a different direction.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on March 06, 2024, 03:56:06 PMLouis is absolutely right. His comments are among the most intelligent I have heard about Daniel Jones and the Giants.
Thank you for posting the entire segment for context.
Not criticizing you but this douche bag with a transparent vendetta conveniently disregards Jones's entire body of work. Can you imagine if he was the Giants GM and having to deal with five years of Haskins?
Quote from: brownelvis54 on March 06, 2024, 03:56:06 PMLouis is absolutely right. His comments are among the most intelligent I have heard about Daniel Jones and the Giants.
Rob,
I agree, although I would take it further than Mr Reddick. There are two factors at work here. There is the play on the field. It's beyond silly to declare in 6 games (only four were complete, and one of them was a record-breaking comeback) with 30 sacks that, suddenly, what Schoen and Daboll saw the entire last season (plus film study and notes from prior seasons when they were "screwing him up) was negated.
The injury issue is another factor, and that's where it gets tricky. None of us outside of 1925 Giants Way have any idea what is going on with DJ's neck. From the outside, looking in, the neck seems like a major concern, as does his overall injury history.
Sorry, not buying this.
The implication that Jones has basically been short changed because he only played six games last year makes zero sense. Part of the reason they may want to move on is precisely because of DJ's unavailability. And not once in this two minute segment did he say anything about DJ's skills (or his continued lack of processing ability in year 5). Pretty telling Riddick can't muster an actual compliment for Jones and just runs wild with Mara's comment about his golden boy.
Quote from: londonblue on March 06, 2024, 05:33:23 PMThe problem is if you believe you made a mistake you have to change course, which creates more instability in the short term.
The actions and inactions so far suggest Schoen believes this is a full rebuild not a tinker and retool. That tends to suggest he thinks his DJ decision was wrong. Free Agency might put a slightly different perspective on things but for now I am thinking rebuild.
If we can get a QB we will. If we cannot we will try to give a future QB protection and weapons whilst fielding a D that can stop us being regularly embarrassed if the O sucks.
Today we are one of the 2-3 least talented rosters in the NFL. Even a really solid FA and inspired draft will not make us contenders. The Jones decision cost us a year and reduced our cap resources. Unfortunate and of course it will slow things down but it is done and now Schoen has to be clear-eyed with his priorities and decisions. So far, so sensible with Saquon and McKinney.
I think there are two levels to look at this. If the Giants medical staff signed off and Daniel Jones' neck issue only to see him suffer another neck injury on what was pretty much a routine tackle, then you point is well made. You acknowledge you messed up and move on.
If, on the other hand, as many fans and reporters suggest that the small sample size proved DJ's ultimate talent level, then Reddick is spot on correct. While refusing to acknowledge a mistake can be detrimental as a manager, so too can managing an impulsive manner where your views jump from one extreme to another with little to justify the change.
Oddly enough, in competitive management situations, refusing to acknowledge a mistake and failing to stand by your decisions can both be detrimental, and even the middle ground can be problematic.
You mentioned Schoen's thoughts on a full rebuild. If Schoen felt he was in a full rebuild, he most definitely should have traded away Barkley and McKenny before the trade deadline (rather than have them leave without compensation, which appears to be their current path). Those trades would have generated badly needed draft capital and likely ensured a season record, which would have assured they were in a position to grab a new QB without having to spend additional draft capital. Instead, the Giants went half-measures. They traded away Leo while leaving the other two and worked their way down the draft board to position 6 and didn't get the extra picks needed to properly rebuild this team. I think the Commanders are in a better position moving forward because they went full rebuild mode rather than taking half-measures.
His entire rant is ridiculous and it's based off of a comment made by Eisen that went viral. One trying to stay relevant and the other looking to be on the cutting edge of information.
Where did Eisen get his information? Not from the Giants Coaches that's for sure. It likely came from other teams who are basing it off of speculation based on offers, requests and feeling out by Schoen and the depth of interviews. Eisen knows he has a 50-50 chance of being right and since Jones is starting the season anyway, anything can change. The QB Fairy can sprinkle fairy dust on Jones's head and he can have a complete epiphany and turnaround or the safer bet is they just simply move on.
Reddick on the other hand is a has been looking for attention. Even if Eisen is right, throw away the Dallas game and there's plenty of evidence that Jones wasn't able to get to the next level when it was put upon him. Several of those sacks were on him and even a Rookie Bo Nix who will be a boom or bust player, would have completed passes and moved the ball.
Anyone can surmise that coming off an ACL, that Jones will be restricted to the pocket and his running game will be put on hold for the 2024 season. He can't thrown on the run and since he can't process at this level he will be a sitting duck.