Tommy
@TommyG105
You expect a young GM to take his lumps early, especially taking over a dumpster fire.
Joe Schoen so far:
Daniel Jones contract ❌
Letting Barkley walk for nothing ❌
Darren Waller trade❌
Glowinski signing ❌
Drafting Evan Neal ❌
Leonard Williams trade ✅
Bobby Okereke Signing ✅
Toney trade ✅
Simmons trade✅
Pinnock signing ✅
Moves money around well ✅
*Subject to change*
#NYGiants
12:36 PM · Mar 7, 2024
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https://x.com/TommyG105/status/1765793744073220358?s=20
Rich,
I think its fair but I don't necessarily agree with all of it if that makes any sense. I also think it is incomplete.
For example, is there a reason Neal gets a bad mark but Thibodeaux gets no mark?
I disagree on Glowinski because he was the top rated guard on the team last year I think. He was a stop gap signing and actually was better than what was on the roster. It didn't break the bank and I would say it didn't work out as well as hoped either. Feel pretty neutral on that one.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 11, 2024, 10:19:40 AMRich,
I think its fair but I don't necessarily agree with all of it if that makes any sense. I also think it is incomplete.
For example, is there a reason Neal gets a bad mark but Thibodeaux gets no mark?
I disagree on Glowinski because he was the top rated guard on the team last year I think. He was a stop gap signing and actually was better than what was on the roster. It didn't break the bank and I would say it didn't work out as well as hoped either. Feel pretty neutral on that one.
Wasn't Glowinski benched early in the season for poor performance?
As for Thibs, I think he has earned neither praise nor criticism status at this point in his career. He was a 5th overall pick, and at best, you can say he has lived up to the position he was drafted.
I would add Deonte Banks as a positive.
No (and yes). It ends with the disclaimer "subject to change" (which IMO applies to nearly everything in the NFL).
Of the X's shown, three are either "too soon to say" (subject to change) or just likely incorrect.
Of the "check marks" shown, I mostly agree (although everything is subject to change lol).
Bob
It's hard to kill a GM for drafting a highly thought of prospect, at a position of need, who the mocketeers had going right around where Neal was drafted. I can't remember a single talking head claiming that he was a bad pick or a reach. Conversely he doesn't get a ton of credit from being right on Thibs. Same scenario, different result. Neal didn't come with red flags, an injury history like a Kadarius Toney. Some time xxxx happens.
Failing to have a swing tackle
Failing to draft a competent Guard
Let Feliciano walk with no backup Center
Signed Campbell and let James walk
Signed Shepard past prime
While not unfair, I don't think I would personally kill him for the Neal pick. There weren't many people who disagreed with that pick at the time it was made. Not all draft picks will work out and early results indicate that Schoen may have had a good first draft - Thibs, Robinson, Flott, Bellinger, and Belton all look like solid contributors. Unfortunately, he may have whiffed on his 2 OL picks, but no one bats 1.000.
On Jones, my criticism runs deeper than the contract. His evaluation of Jones has been wildly inconsistent. His initial evaluation was that he wasn't worth a 5th year extension of 1 year at about $23-24M. 9 months and a decent season later, his evaluation was that he was worth $160M over 4 years with $81M of that guaranteed, plus another $23M guaranteed for injury (to an injury-prone player). Now, 1 year and 6 games played after that contract was signed- behind a porous OL and with no dangerous receiving threats - he is (at least) willing to move on if the right replacement falls to him in the draft. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Jones, those are some pretty wild swings in Schoen's opinion of his value.
I'd give Waller and Neal a TBD.
I consider Schoen to be a very bright GM who is modernizing the position of GM in the NFL. Some of his decisions have come back to bite him in the ass, but overall he's been superb
He had to manage a living cap hell that was thrown in his lap from the get-go (not an easy task for anyone)
He modernized everything from the draft war room to analytics to bringing in Brandon Brown and put us on a path for long-term success
He inherited a handful of starters, with a ton of "fill ins" and virtually no bench
Has he made mistakes? Sure...everyone does. Waller for Toney is a wash IMO, and is a non-story. And who knows, maybe Waller will be back this year and put up great numbers. But even if he doesn't, Toney was going nowhere with the Giants, especially with Wan'Dale back and playing well. It was worth a shot and risk is part of every move by every GM
At the time he brought in Glowinski, it was a solid decision, as he was above average for a guard in his previous 4 years. But, Glowinski took a step back from his previous years in the NFL, which could not be foreseen and getting him was hailed as a brilliant move by USA Today
As far as DJ's contract goes...it was a minimal cost if he puts it all together. DJ's story has yet to be written even though a lot of negative writers and fans have written the book on him long before the story has unfolded
Also, you can't blame Schoen for injuries that have decimated this team. He inherited an offensive line that needed change across the board and a better O-Line coach (which he has addressed now)...and there isn't a GM in the NFL who wouldn't have jumped all over the opportunity to get Neal
Regardless...it's way, way too early to evaluate his job. He inherited a mess across the board and has been steadily remaking the whole team while modernizing the GM position. Beat writers who criticize him are fishing for "hits" so they can keep their job and to get fans talking about stuff that is not only out of their hands, but feeds the eternally pessimist fan, who let you know that they know everything and talk up a shltstorm if the team is not a perpetual dynasty
With D Jones he was in a no win situation
He could of tagged him
Pay him.less
But he play good the year before
Everyone was hoping he would of taken the next step with daboll.. The only thing is
You want the team to believe in your QB
We now know he isnt the answer
HE can get cut next year
If we draft a QB this year
Would it be bad to sit behind and learn from Jones for the year?
Also.Maybe D Jones might step up this year
If not he is gone
What would you of done different
Embrass him ?
@Jolly Blue Giant In fairness, Schoen inherited a team that was up against the cap. That was offset somewhat by plenty of draft capital (including the extra picks for the previous year's Bears trade).
After that season, the Giants were actually in a good cap situation, as witnessed by no comp picks in this draft (meaning they signed more than they lost).
I think that in terms of situations for a new GM, Schoen's situation may not have been ideal, but it was better than many (considering new GMs often follow fired GMs).
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 11, 2024, 10:24:42 AMWasn't Glowinski benched early in the season for poor performance?
As for Thibs, I think he has earned neither praise nor criticism status at this point in his career. He was a 5th overall pick, and at best, you can say he has lived up to the position he was drafted.
Yes and finished at their top ranked guard. Not sure if that says more about him or the rest of the guards.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 11, 2024, 11:59:14 AMYes and finished at their top ranked guard. Not sure if that says more about him or the rest of the guards.
If you break out his PFF grade
Overall he had a 64.8, which puts ranks him 25th for guards (filtered for a min 20% snaps)
His run blocking was a 68.5 good for 15th on the list
Unfortunately (for the Giants QBs) his pass blocking grade was a 53.4 which was good for 59th
We are really good at this stuff, are we? It's a shame that aren't nearly so good at self-analysis and fault-finding. But what the hell, it's all just meant for our entertainment.
Cheers!
I'd rather have the Campbell signing and Shepard Re-signing than Glow on there.
Letting Barkley walk away for nothing rather than trading him last season, is now confirmed
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 11, 2024, 02:56:19 PMLetting Barkley walk away for nothing rather than trading him last season, is now confirmed
They were never going to trade him last year. After the rare PO-making/ game winning season in 2022, it was simply a case of who got paid and who got tagged, and who got that all wrong, and why?
Cheers!
Add letting McKinney walk away for nothing to the list of negatives
No problem letting Barkley walk for nothing. Not paying RB's. They are a dime a dozen.
Quote from: coggs on March 11, 2024, 07:34:25 PMNo problem letting Barkley walk for nothing. Not paying RB's. They are a dime a dozen.
He could have gotten draft capital (and set the team up to grab an elite QB prospect by being in the top 3 draft spots by trading Barkley and McKinney last season when they were out of the playoffs.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 11, 2024, 07:53:40 PMHe could have gotten draft capital (and set the team up to grab an elite QB prospect by being in the top 3 draft spots by trading Barkley and McKinney last season when they were out of the playoffs.
Yeah, would have been nice to have an elite QB prospect. Those have worked out so well the last 5-6 years. Guys like Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Wilson, Lance, Jones, Murray. Burrow and Lawrence are not enough to change my mind on these elite QB Prospects. What it tells me is these teams no longer know how to ascertain how these college QBs will translate to the pros. Even if I give you Murray as he did look promising his first few years. Besides, Barkley did nothing against New England. Not as if he had huge games against Washington and Green Bay. They could have won those games without him.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 11, 2024, 07:53:40 PMHe could have gotten draft capital (and set the team up to grab an elite QB prospect by being in the top 3 draft spots by trading Barkley and McKinney last season when they were out of the playoffs.
Who was in the market for Barkley and what was their offer?
Incomplete. He inherited dreck with limited $ resources to begin an immediate, slow turnaround. Surprise, they made the playoffs, and won a game. Everyone has to know that Schoen/Daboll had their own objective scouting reports on Jones when leaving Duke, and all the tape you need afterwards. I would like to know what they really thought, and think. Mara steps up and throws a cup of salt in the soup, not a tablespoon. I'll say it again the 2yr out is a compromise. We don't know what happens in the executive suite, but it wouldn't surprise me if now Mara has agreed to back away, and let Schoen do his thing. I can only hope. Barkley is gone, Jones will be next unless he morphs into a real QB. So now to today. Before this afternoon Schoen was being led out to the town square by some here. After lunch things seem to change. Schoen signed two guards who have to be better than what was here, acquired a pass rusher considered to be elite, and a familiar RB to be part of a committee in DABOLL'S offense. He made an attempt to fortify both sides of the LOS. That's how you win in the NFL, at the LOS. It was a good day. Let's let Schoen do his thing.
Quote from: files58 on March 11, 2024, 10:39:17 PMIncomplete. He inherited dreck with limited $ resources to begin an immediate, slow turnaround. Surprise, they made the playoffs, and won a game. Everyone has to know that Schoen/Daboll had their own objective scouting reports on Jones when leaving Duke, and all the tape you need afterwards. I would like to know what they really thought, and think. Mara steps up and throws a cup of salt in the soup, not a tablespoon. I'll say it again the 2yr out is a compromise. We don't know what happens in the executive suite, but it wouldn't surprise me if now Mara has agreed to back away, and let Schoen do his thing. I can only hope. Barkley is gone, Jones will be next unless he morphs into a real QB. So now to today. Before this afternoon Schoen was being led out to the town square by some here. After lunch things seem to change. Schoen signed two guards who have to be better than what was here, acquired a pass rusher considered to be elite, and a familiar RB to be part of a committee in DABOLL'S offense. He made an attempt to fortify both sides of the LOS. That's how you win in the NFL, at the LOS. It was a good day. Let's let Schoen do his thing.
them making the playoffs had nothing to do with schoen, it was all daboll. That's why he won coach of year.
And after a year where they made the playoffs, how did Schoen respond? Making the aboslute worst possible decision in every way since. Even disregarding the Jones contract, every signle draft pick and acquisition Schoen has made has been a total failure besides Kayvon.
The most egregious error was not selling Xavier and Saquon at the deadline. Inexcusable.
While I like the Burns move in theory, if he doesnt' pan out Schoen will offically be worse than Gettleman as the worst GM in Giants history. Big risk.
Why is everyone so hung up on "letting him walk for nothing". The entire free agency so far has about 100+ guys who walked away from their current team for nothing. Why is it a tragedy for us but not 31 other teams? The NFL trade deadline is not like other leagues with a crazy frenzy of players moving. You can't expect every pending FA to be moved. Plus unlike other sports you can franchise one of your free agents.
Schoen's legacy is going to come down who the next QB is. If he hits on one in this draft, it will go a long way for the future of this franchise.