As of now this is the way I see it. Of course training camp can change this line up
LT Andrew Thomas
LG Jon Runyon
C John Michael Schmitz
RG Jermaine Eluemunor
RT Evan Neal
Quote from: brownelvis54 on May 02, 2024, 07:33:15 PMAs of now this is the way I see it. Of course training camp can change this line up
LT Andrew Thomas
LG Jon Runyon
C John Michael Schmitz
RG Jermaine Eluemunor
RT Evan Neal
I agree with that, and if Neal begins to struggle, I think you can switch Eluemunor and Neals positions on the line.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 02, 2024, 07:46:00 PMI agree with that, and if Neal begins to struggle, I think you can switch Eluemunor and Neals positions on the line.
Agreed, but I would move Neal to LG. Seems like he played better on the left side in college, so being on the left side next to a Pro bowl Left Tackle could be the solution?
If it were my decision, my leash for neal would be not much more than one game. The guy has had two years, and he's been awful the whole way. Enough. If he's not good at right tackle right away, he should be out. Elumenor did a totally solid job at that position on a bad team with a bad QB for our current new O line coach.
Enough with the kid gloves on Neal. The guy sucks, and he was a dick to the fans. One shot and he's out. He should probably already be out.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on May 02, 2024, 07:49:12 PMAgreed, but I would move Neal to LG. Seems like he played better on the left side in college, so being on the left side next to a Pro bowl Left Tackle could be the solution?
Good point, yeah I'd have no problem moving him to LG instead of RG, and then Runyan can kick inside on the other RG position.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 02, 2024, 08:29:59 PMIf it were my decision, my leash for neal would be not much more than one game. The guy has had two years, and he's been awful the whole way. Enough. If he's not good at right tackle right away, he should be out. Elumenor did a totally solid job at that position on a bad team with a bad QB for our current new O line coach.
Enough with the kid gloves on Neal. The guy sucks, and he was a dick to the fans. One shot and he's out. He should probably already be out.
Understandable, I think I would give him two games just to make sure, and if he continues to struggle kick him inside, and definitely let Eluemunor start at RT.
I'd make sure Neal had to play against someone decent.
It's easy to want to give Neal extra rope in May. I'm telling you right now, if he starts at RT in week one and he's a total disaster like he has been to this point, nobody in this forum or in this fanbase is going to want him there in week two when we have a totally respectable RT in Eleumenor.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 02, 2024, 07:46:00 PMI agree with that, and if Neal begins to struggle, I think you can switch Eluemunor and Neals positions on the line.
This does seem to be the most likely scenario.
Like the offense as a whole, I'm willing to give him a mulligan for last year.
The entire year, from the start of camp, was a calamity.
Sometimes a team just has a "bad year". What can you say when, in less than 20 days, you lose Darren Waller, Andrew Thomas and Saquon Barkley? I realize there's not a lot of patiences for that given the larger picture/10+ years of futility.
As for Neal - he got a concussion that lasted a while (I was disappointed with missed practices vs. Hutchinson), then more injuries. If you watch some of the film breakdowns by knowledgable OL people (like Skinner on Talkin Giants) - it appears he started settling down and was showing improvement over year 1. (Trending in the right direction.)
I think there's reasons to be optimistic and pessimistic, and I agree with the above comment if he struggles early again, you've got to pull the plug. The goal isn't Evan Neal at RT, the goal is to win football games.
The other performance driver is Schmitz. Quite frankly, it's tough not to be underwhelmed by his play last year considering the hype. He does things well, but looked like a liability in other areas and his play declined as the year went. For me, it was shades of Weston Richburg just never quite making it. Big year for him, to prove he can get this thing turned around.
JMS can't have an Evan Neal tyoe secind year regression from what was already substandard.
In case anyone is interested, here are all the PFF grades (for 2023) of the Giants offensive linemen
36th of 36
John Michael Schmitz Jr.
C
# 61
41.4
Aaron Stinnie
G
# 64
56.5
Austin Schlottmann
C
# 65
62.6
Jon Runyan
G
# 76
56.5
Marcus McKethan
G
# 60
45.4
Jimmy Morrissey
G
# 67
60.1
Yodny Cajuste
T
# 70
Jalen Mayfield
T
# 62
26.1
Joshua Miles
T
# 77
Matt Nelson
T
# 68
58.0
Jermaine Eluemunor
T
# 72
68.5
Joshua Ezeudu
T
# 75
42.4
Evan Neal
T
# 73
39.8
Andrew Thomas
T
# 78
76.1
Quote from: 4 Aces on May 03, 2024, 12:31:23 PMLike the offense as a whole, I'm willing to give him a mulligan for last year.
The entire year, from the start of camp, was a calamity.
Sometimes a team just has a "bad year". What can you say when, in less than 20 days, you lose Darren Waller, Andrew Thomas and Saquon Barkley? I realize there's not a lot of patiences for that given the larger picture/10+ years of futility.
As for Neal - he got a concussion that lasted a while (I was disappointed with missed practices vs. Hutchinson), then more injuries. If you watch some of the film breakdowns by knowledgable OL people (like Skinner on Talkin Giants) - it appears he started settling down and was showing improvement over year 1. (Trending in the right direction.)
I think there's reasons to be optimistic and pessimistic, and I agree with the above comment if he struggles early again, you've got to pull the plug. The goal isn't Evan Neal at RT, the goal is to win football games.
The other performance driver is Schmitz. Quite frankly, it's tough not to be underwhelmed by his play last year considering the hype. He does things well, but looked like a liability in other areas and his play declined as the year went. For me, it was shades of Weston Richburg just never quite making it. Big year for him, to prove he can get this thing turned around.
Not one young player developed under Booby.
I'm gonna wait to see what Brill-o- Pad does cleaning the techniques of this OL especially the young'ins'
I keep saying this but Brillo might have been the most important acquisition of the off-season. And I'm not a jokin' :scared:
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on May 03, 2024, 01:38:00 PMI keep saying this but Brillo might have been the most important acquisition of the off-season. And I'm not a jokin' :scared:
We know you're not a jokin' 'cause neither are we! Redfaced
Peace!
Quote from: Philosophers on May 03, 2024, 01:11:15 PMJMS can't have an Evan Neal tyoe secind year regression from what was already substandard.
I agree on JMS. Especially considering he is quite old for a second year NFL player.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 02, 2024, 08:29:59 PMIf it were my decision, my leash for neal would be not much more than one game. The guy has had two years, and he's been awful the whole way. Enough. If he's not good at right tackle right away, he should be out. Elumenor did a totally solid job at that position on a bad team with a bad QB for our current new O line coach.
Enough with the kid gloves on Neal. The guy sucks, and he was a dick to the fans. One shot and he's out. He should probably already be out.
Short leash for Neal for sure. I haven't seen any signs of improvement.
i
Quote from: spiderblue43 on May 03, 2024, 07:41:23 PMShort leash for Neal for sure. I haven't seen any signs of improvement.
i
It's not even entirely clear to me why he should start at RT in week one over Eleumenor. You have two players who have played RT in this league. One has always been terrible. The other played at a solid level last year. Why would you go with the first guy in that situation?
I don't recall a season where we have had average or better RT play since McKenzie. Elumenor should be the front runner and best we have had man RT in a dozen years
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 03, 2024, 01:20:53 PMIn case anyone is interested, here are all the PFF grades (for 2023) of the Giants offensive linemen
36th of 36
John Michael Schmitz Jr.
C
# 61
41.4
Aaron Stinnie
G
# 64
56.5
Austin Schlottmann
C
# 65
62.6
Jon Runyan
G
# 76
56.5
Marcus McKethan
G
# 60
45.4
Jimmy Morrissey
G
# 67
60.1
Yodny Cajuste
T
# 70
Jalen Mayfield
T
# 62
26.1
Joshua Miles
T
# 77
Matt Nelson
T
# 68
58.0
Jermaine Eluemunor
T
# 72
68.5
Joshua Ezeudu
T
# 75
42.4
Evan Neal
T
# 73
39.8
Andrew Thomas
T
# 78
76.1
Expecting our O-Line to improve to average is putting a LOT of faith in the new O-Line coach.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 04, 2024, 01:52:01 AMExpecting our O-Line to improve to average is putting a LOT of faith in the new O-Line coach.
Last year, we felt the Giants offense could take a step up. We hoped that rookie JMS would play well and Neal would get his act together. While I was optimistic, the old saying, "hope is not a substitute for a plan" kept playing in my head.
Quote from: kartanoman on May 03, 2024, 05:04:23 PMWe know you're not a jokin' 'cause neither are we! Redfaced
Peace!
I mean when I look at the last 5-7 OL coaches we have had that might be the greatest joke of all time! :doh:
Most of them are not even coaching OL anymore in the NFL and many of them had very, very weak resumes to boot. That was a horrific job by this organization finding a good one. Now this Bracillo guy his resume and rep when you listen to a bunch of guys who either know him closely or have played under him are absolutely glowing. Been waiting a long time for them to get this position on the staff adequate addressed.
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on May 04, 2024, 10:19:09 AMI mean when I look at the last 5-7 OL coaches we have had that might be the greatest joke of all time! :doh:
Most of them are not even coaching OL anymore in the NFL and many of them had very, very weak resumes to boot. That was a horrific job by this organization finding a good one. Now this Bracillo guy his resume and rep when you listen to a bunch of guys who either know him closely or have played under him are absolutely glowing. Been waiting a long time for them to get this position on the staff adequate addressed.
I would argue the O-line coach is as important as your OC and DC. First off, they are the only position to coach 5 players on the field (6 in heavy tight-end packages), with the possible exception of a DB coach in a system that plays mostly nickel. Second, I don't think there is a position in the league where prospects come in less prepared for NFL games than O-linemen. Finally, with the CBA limits, coaching O-linemen has never been more challenging owing to the lack of time in pads.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 04, 2024, 10:28:13 AMI would argue the O-line coach is as important as your OC and DC. First off, they are the only position to coach 5 players on the field (6 in heavy tight-end packages), with the possible exception of a DB coach in a system that plays mostly nickel. Second, I don't think there is a position in the league where prospects come in less prepared for NFL games than O-linemen. Finally, with the CBA limits, coaching O-linemen has never been more challenging owing to the lack of time in pads.
I would argue that you are 100% correct. I think that's why you see guys like Stoutland and Scarnecchia being held on to like gold by their teams even when there are major coaching changes around them.
Neal has missed 14 games his first two seasons, can that explain some of the poor performance?
I hope I'm wrong, but Bobbie Johnson feels like a bit of a scapegoat.
Now - I'm not saying he's a good OL Coach. All evidence points to the contrary. His guys had no idea what they were doing.
But just like any business, sh#t rolls uphill. Just like it probably does at most of our jobs. The OL struggled from the opening bell last year. Where was the Offensive Coordinator Mike Kafka when it became clear Johnson was getting poor results? If he couldn't fix it, where was the Head Coach Brian Daboll? This was a problem that derailed the entire season and got their million dollar QB hurt. None of them could fix it.
Now Bobbie J's gone, and we're just hoping Bricillo waves a magic wand and they start playing better. I'm skeptical.
Quote from: 4 Aces on May 05, 2024, 07:57:18 PMI hope I'm wrong, but Bobbie Johnson feels like a bit of a scapegoat.
Now - I'm not saying he's a good OL Coach. All evidence points to the contrary. His guys had no idea what they were doing.
But just like any business, sh#t rolls uphill. Just like it probably does at most of our jobs. The OL struggled from the opening bell last year. Where was the Offensive Coordinator Mike Kafka when it became clear Johnson was getting poor results? If he couldn't fix it, where was the Head Coach Brian Daboll? This was a problem that derailed the entire season and got their million dollar QB hurt. None of them could fix it.
Now Bobbie J's gone, and we're just hoping Bricillo waves a magic wand and they start playing better. I'm skeptical.
The real killer with Johnson was his inability to identify his starting OL in the pre-season so they could play together and get some chemistry. And Dabol/Kafka let that happen. This led them to be unprepared to compete, as evidenced by being blown out in game after game at the start of the season. The second killer with Johnson was his inability to get any thing out of Neal, and JMS.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 03, 2024, 07:46:03 PMIt's not even entirely clear to me why he should start at RT in week one over Eleumenor. You have two players who have played RT in this league. One has always been terrible. The other played at a solid level last year. Why would you go with the first guy in that situation?
I'm with you. Let Neal start playing guard from day 1 of mini-camp. Give him as many reps as possible. Play him the majority of the snaps in the preseason games. If he can't figure it out there's a nice spot on the bench for him. I don't need to see him whiffing at RT anymore.
That would be a sad state of affairs if they blew a #7 pick on a sub-par OT, mediocre OG. How did the scouts get this one wrong? There was talk of him being the top tackle in the class. Is it possible he is strictly a LT? Did his skills not transfer to the NFL? Was the OL coaching that bad on this team? Or is he not as good as everyone made him out to be?