Who would you deem our best WW2 Navy Admiral and why? Obviously each had different roles. I'd love to hear if anyone knows any stories about these fine men.
Nimitz
Halsey
Spruance
King
I have told this story several times but since you asked about Admirals, I can add this.
I had a very good friend who passed away a couple of years ago, who was on the USS Missouri when the Japanese surrendered. When he passed, he was one of 4 others who were still alive from that crew. He was a mar one who was assigned to the Missouri and all they did was train for the invasion of Japan.
So what about the Admiral? Since the Missouri was the flagship of the Pacific fleet, Admiral Halsey was its commander and was always on the ship. My friend used to relate stories to me about how Halsey used to come down and play volleyball with the crew. He always inquired about their families and, to my friend, just seemed like a general good guy. The crew loved him for that. They never knew about the bombs dropped on Japan, but at the end of a day in August 1945, Halsey came on the intercom and told all crew to wear their dress uniforms for the next day, they all knew something was up. When they saw McArthur land on the flight deck word was out that the Japanese were going to surrender.
The Missouri was the last ship to return to the USA, maybe 6 months after the war. It was the flagship and it made its way back visiting many other ports. Halsey always let the men have liberty when ver he was able to.
I can't speak of any military genius about him, but as a Admiral, he was well respected by his crew.
Thank you very much for sharing that story. I enjoy hearing about that generation
Quote from: Trench on May 19, 2024, 09:59:24 PMWho would you deem our best WW2 Navy Admiral and why? Obviously each had different roles. I'd love to hear if anyone knows any stories about these fine men.
Nimitz
Halsey
Spruance
King
I am not sure how one could rank these admirals. They all did a good job in their own context. I will say, the US Navy in the Pacific was at quite the disadvantage at the start of the war.
Consider:
Advantage USN
Broke Japanese codes
Far greater industrial might and manpower
Superior radar
Better damage control
Advantage IJN
Better night fighting ability (at least early in war)
Superior planes (until later in the war)
Superior torpedoes (the US torpedoes didn't even work much of the time and it took nearly the whole war to fix)
Better tactics early
More capital ships early
I don't know much about the admirals, but my father was a navy man in WWII and the Korean War. My dad was a boatswain mate on the USS New Jersey (Big Mo's sister ship) and he had a 35mm camera and took a lot of pictures and sold them to other sailors who didn't have cameras. I once pointed at a picture and asked him what that picture was, and he said, "that's Bull Halsey, our admiral". He was genuinely star struck to meet Halsey. Unfortunately, I don't have the picture and my dad is no longer around so that I can ask him about Halsey. I know he admired Halsey and was over-the-top excited to meet him and take his picture
I suspect all the admirals were all excellent warriors. I only know who Halsey was, and that he was called "Bull", because of my father
I am very interested in this subject, but I recognize that I am less knowledgeable about it than those actively participating in the thread so far, so I will simply read this thread and likely not post again (unless it's a question).
Thanks for starting the thread Trench, and thanks to all the responders so far. Very interesting stuff.
The Gallant Hours (James Cagney) was a nice movie which depicted Admiral Bull Halsey presence and tactical prowess.
If anyone is interested in Naval history, I highly recommend this YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/@Drachinifel
and
@Jolly Blue Giant The USS New Jersey has its own YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@BattleshipNewJersey
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 31, 2024, 06:38:25 AMIf anyone is interested in Naval history, I highly recommend this YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/@Drachinifel
and
@Jolly Blue Giant
The USS New Jersey has its own YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@BattleshipNewJersey
Thanks for the link. I've toured the New Jersey with my father and seen it quite a few times because it's hard to miss if you are ever in Philadelphia. If you can see the river (easy from Rt 95), you can't miss it, as it sticks out like a sore thumb. The Delaware River divides Pennsylvania and New Jersey. So the ship is on the other side of the river from the Philly side, so officially in Camden, NJ. It's just south of the Ben Franklin Bridge (north of the Walt Whitman Bridge)
The New Jersey lit up at night
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xq2JJd0X/USS-New-Jersey-Night.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKTsYBCr)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvgTQ0q7/USS-NEW-JERSEY-BB-62-PLAQUE-JPEG.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
When this picture was taken (property of the US Navy), my father was eleven stories high with headphones radioing down to the gunners in the turrets to indicate where the shells were landing and where to adjust
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDQyStYT/g435681.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
My Dad
(https://i.postimg.cc/3x2Tfmbp/20141108-145651.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Bull Halsey
(https://i.postimg.cc/6q4S2xkR/g291498.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the USS New Jersey BB62
(https://i.postimg.cc/cHvZm2q1/k15631.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 31, 2024, 04:42:21 PMThanks for the link. I've toured the New Jersey with my father and seen it quite a few times because it's hard to miss if you are ever in Philadelphia. If you can see the river (easy from Rt 95), you can't miss it, as it sticks out like a sore thumb. The Delaware River divides Pennsylvania and New Jersey. So the ship is on the other side of the river from the Philly side, so officially in Camden, NJ. It's just south of the Ben Franklin Bridge (north of the Walt Whitman Bridge)
The New Jersey lit up at night
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xq2JJd0X/USS-New-Jersey-Night.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKTsYBCr)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvgTQ0q7/USS-NEW-JERSEY-BB-62-PLAQUE-JPEG.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
When this picture was taken (property of the US Navy), my father was eleven stories high with headphones radioing down to the gunners in the turrets to indicate where the shells were landing and where to adjust
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDQyStYT/g435681.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
My Dad
(https://i.postimg.cc/3x2Tfmbp/20141108-145651.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Bull Halsey
(https://i.postimg.cc/6q4S2xkR/g291498.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the USS New Jersey BB62
(https://i.postimg.cc/cHvZm2q1/k15631.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I took the tour myself. The ship is currently in dry dock having work done.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 31, 2024, 04:42:21 PMThanks for the link. I've toured the New Jersey with my father and seen it quite a few times because it's hard to miss if you are ever in Philadelphia. If you can see the river (easy from Rt 95), you can't miss it, as it sticks out like a sore thumb. The Delaware River divides Pennsylvania and New Jersey. So the ship is on the other side of the river from the Philly side, so officially in Camden, NJ. It's just south of the Ben Franklin Bridge (north of the Walt Whitman Bridge)
The New Jersey lit up at night
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xq2JJd0X/USS-New-Jersey-Night.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKTsYBCr)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvgTQ0q7/USS-NEW-JERSEY-BB-62-PLAQUE-JPEG.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
When this picture was taken (property of the US Navy), my father was eleven stories high with headphones radioing down to the gunners in the turrets to indicate where the shells were landing and where to adjust
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDQyStYT/g435681.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
My Dad
(https://i.postimg.cc/3x2Tfmbp/20141108-145651.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Bull Halsey
(https://i.postimg.cc/6q4S2xkR/g291498.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the USS New Jersey BB62
(https://i.postimg.cc/cHvZm2q1/k15631.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Jolly - God bless your dad and all those who served and made "The Greatest Generation"....I cannot than you enough for sharing these pics. I'd love to hear any of his stories he passed along.
One thing that struck me when I toured the USS New Jersey was how it was built. It's clearly a war machine first and a passenger ship second. You get a real sense the accommodations for people were built around the warship.
Quote from: Trench on June 01, 2024, 08:38:39 AMJolly - God bless your dad and all those who served and made "The Greatest Generation"....I cannot than you enough for sharing these pics. I'd love to hear any of his stories he passed along.
It would take a book to tell all his stories. He was on the battleship only during the Korean War. He lied his age when he was 16 in order to "get in the war before it was over" during WWII. His two older brothers were already in. His closest brother, Glenn, was in the 10th Mountain Division and was killed during the Battle of Po Valley in the Apennines Mountains of Italy. He was killed by mortar fire on the same day and next to the mountain where Sen. Bob Dole was wounded. Glenn's story: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/136681952/glenn-lee-chrysler
My Dad's other brother, Bob, was a Sgt (2nd Platoon, Company D, 134th Infantry Regiment, of the 35th Infantry Division), and partook in the Normandy Invasion and marched all the way from France to Germany before getting shot in the leg while marching through the streets of Geldern, Germany. While the rest of his unit took cover, he stood his ground and manned a machine gun, pinning down the shooters until his unit was able to come in from behind and take them out. He refused to go for medical help and marched (limped) all the way to Berlin. He died several years ago with the bullet still in his leg. You could paper a wall with all the citations and honors he was given. He marched back across Europe (still wounded) and boarded the Queen Mary for his trip home
(https://i.postimg.cc/mk816PkQ/Uncle-Bob-s-March-across-Europe.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The Queen Mary returning US troops back home to America...not exactly a comfortable pleasure voyage home
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxFPQtm7/Crowded-ship-bringing-American-troops-back-to-New-York-harbor-after-V-Day-1945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcStY9Wj)
My Uncle Glenn and Uncle Bob
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kz51R1nd/45841110-427873311080446-2905316217763921920-n.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
During WWII, my dad was stationed in the Pacific arena as a member of the SeaBees on the Island of New Caledonia. After Japan capitulated, my father was stationed in a port near Nagasaki for a year. He used to drive officers to the smoldering ruins of Nagasaki to tour the damage. We used to joke with our dad that the reason all his sons were bald was because of his walking around the radioactive ruins of the city. One of the things I'm proudest of for my father, was that after he was discharged, he went back to high school and graduated at 20 yrs old. A lot of my friends had fathers who quit school to join the war, but I only know of one who returned to finish his education - my dad. After high school, he went to Cornell to earn a certification in milk analysis. He then went to farms around NYS to train farmers how to test and graph various components of milk. While doing that, the Korean War broke out, and he immediately signed back up, this time as a Petty Officer/Boatswain Mate on the USS New Jersey. While the ship was being refitted in the Brooklyn shipyard, my father would travel home by train to Binghamton on weekends, and that is when he met my mother. They married in November 1950 just before he took off for the next year in Korea. Interestingly, the ship's mast and structure had to be removed for the ship to go under the Brooklyn Bridge. The parts were shipped to Virginia Beach to reattach before heading to Korea, which took a couple of weeks. Then a stop at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba for supplies, then through the Panama Canal, and off to war. The ship was so large, there were only inches of clearance on its sides as it went through the locks. So once they reached the Pacific, the sailors had to hang off the sides with ropes to repaint that sides of the ship
Anyway, there's way too many stories in my family to do it justice on this site. On my mother's side, she only had one member of the family in the war - the only male of fighting age - her cousin. My grandmother and mother (a teenager at the time) used to make homemade candy and cookies and send them to him. They wrote letters back and forth for the duration. His name was "Kenny" and he was a member of the paratroop battalion known as "Easy Company". He was killed in the Battle of the Bulge. His story can be found in https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56063971/kenneth-jay-webb
Our "Wall of Fame" at my parent's home
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5TQC3jN/I0576.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the picture on the right with the stars border was hand signed by Harry S. Truman
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXJpVLdZ/I0575.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the small shadow box underneath the painting of the New Jersey contains a piece of the original deck of the New Jersey. My son (who was a combat medic in Iraq) purchased it when he and I toured the New Jersey with my dad
@Jolly Blue Giant Here is the USS New Jersey's Korean war battle history
USS New Jersey arrived in Japan on May 12, 1951 and became the flagship of the Seventh Fleet under Admiral Harold Martin, who had commanded a carrier at Leyte Gulf. The New Jersey reached the east coast of Korea on May 17. The Communist forces had just driven the outnumbered U.N. forces back across the 38th Parallel to the gates of Seoul in the biggest battle of the war. The Chinese then launched a major offensive against General Almond's X Corps near the east coast. The New Jersey promptly pitched in on May 19, shelling Kansong just above the Parallel to interdict enemy supplies.
USS New Jersey next bombarded Wonson, a major port and transportation center behind Communist lines. There, on May 21, 1951, a North Korean shore battery scored a direct hit that did no significant damage to the heavily armored Turret I, and a near miss that sprayed the ship with shrapnel, killing Seaman Robert Oesterwind. He was the only sailor ever killed in action on the New Jersey throughout the many conflicts in which she participated over her four commissionings. The New Jersey returned fire and quickly obliterated the shore battery. She bombarded Wonson multiple times over the next two years, silencing any shore batteries that fired back. The New Jersey was the only battleship that participated in the Navy's siege of Wonson, the longest naval blockade in modern history.
In late May 1951, U.N. forces counterattacked, driving the Communist forces back above the 38th Parallel. Supporting X Corps' advance, USS New Jersey bombarded the Communist supply line near the Parallel at Yangyang and Kansong, dropping bridge spans, exploding ammunition dumps, and shelling enemy troops. Her helicopters worked to rescue downed aviators. During June, while U.N. forces penetrated the Iron Triangle, Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Admiral Forrest Sherman, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet Admiral Arthur Radford, and Far East Naval Commander Admiral Turner Joy boarded the New Jersey and watched her bombard Wonson. Admiral Arleigh Burke, a future CNO, also visited by highline to confer with Admiral Martin. In June and July, the New Jersey provided sustained fire support for a U.N. offensive near Kansong.
With the battlelines stabilizing and negotiations beginning, USS New Jersey still alternated between escorting carriers and bombarding the North Korean coast. After the Communists broke off talks in August 1951, the New Jersey provided naval gunfire support for the U.N. troops ashore near Kansong. Her firing broke up counterattacks, harassed the enemy at night, and supported amphibious feints while X Corps took Heartbreak Ridge and the Punchbowl. In October and November, she ranged far north up the North Korean coast, bombarding Hungnam, Hamhung, Iwon, Tanchon, Songjin, and Chongjin, almost within 16-inch range of Siberia.
USS New Jersey fired three times more 16-inch ammunition in her first tour in Korea than she had in World War II. Her 16-inch guns could range twenty miles inland, outdistancing Army artillery and demolishing targets that had survived repeated air attacks. Her 16- and 5-inch guns destroyed enemy bridges, tunnels, road and rail junctions, railroad yards, trains, bunkers, trenches, troops, mortar pits, artillery positions, shore batteries, supply dumps, ammo dumps, a dam, and an oil refinery. An aerial spotter said the New Jersey put "every shot on target – most beautiful shooting I have seen in five years." General Almond praised the New Jersey's fire for its devastating effect on enemy morale, equipment, and personnel.
https://www.battleshipnewjersey.org/the-ship/full-history/
Thanks for that that Rich. The one line that sticks out is "USS New Jersey fired three times more 16-inch ammunition in her first tour in Korea than she had in World War II". I did not know that. Not sure my father knew that. Regardless, that had a lot to do with my dad's loss of hearing (which he blamed on the 16" guns), especially in his twilight years when his hearing was almost entirely gone
When I toured the ship with my son and my father, my dad pulled the chain barriers out of the way and took us down in the "off limits" turrets of the 16-inch cannons. He had done that before and was given permission to do so because in their words, "this was your ship - go ahead", told to my dad. Cramped quarters and amazing operation with elevators bringing shells up and powder bags. Not much different than the days of pirate ships where the gunpowder (black powder) and cannonballs were loaded separately. It took 6 bags (660 lbs) of black powder to shoot one shell. Quite amazing that they could shoot a 2400 lb shell (the weight of a car) more than twenty miles away with amazing accuracy
(https://i.postimg.cc/kMSLkLQR/main-qimg-56bb8884624e8813eafb58db10bde9c6.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
loading pre-bagged gun powder
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLBpNMHY/12717686-10153981420963833-483400521343428087-n.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/R0qDGYCF/main-qimg-1b565301d811d0dc045ed434c946d66f-lq.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on June 01, 2024, 10:24:00 AMIt would take a book to tell all his stories. He was on the battleship only during the Korean War. He lied his age when he was 16 in order to "get in the war before it was over" during WWII. His two older brothers were already in. His closest brother, Glenn, was in the 10th Mountain Division and was killed during the Battle of Po Valley in the Apennines Mountains of Italy. He was killed by mortar fire on the same day and next to the mountain where Sen. Bob Dole was wounded. Glenn's story: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/136681952/glenn-lee-chrysler
My Dad's other brother, Bob, was a Sgt (2nd Platoon, Company D, 134th Infantry Regiment, of the 35th Infantry Division), and partook in the Normandy Invasion and marched all the way from France to Germany before getting shot in the leg while marching through the streets of Geldern, Germany. While the rest of his unit took cover, he stood his ground and manned a machine gun, pinning down the shooters until his unit was able to come in from behind and take them out. He refused to go for medical help and marched (limped) all the way to Berlin. He died several years ago with the bullet still in his leg. You could paper a wall with all the citations and honors he was given. He marched back across Europe (still wounded) and boarded the Queen Mary for his trip home
(https://i.postimg.cc/mk816PkQ/Uncle-Bob-s-March-across-Europe.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The Queen Mary returning US troops back home to America...not exactly a comfortable pleasure voyage home
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxFPQtm7/Crowded-ship-bringing-American-troops-back-to-New-York-harbor-after-V-Day-1945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcStY9Wj)
My Uncle Glenn and Uncle Bob
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kz51R1nd/45841110-427873311080446-2905316217763921920-n.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
During WWII, my dad was stationed in the Pacific arena as a member of the SeaBees on the Island of New Caledonia. After Japan capitulated, my father was stationed in a port near Nagasaki for a year. He used to drive officers to the smoldering ruins of Nagasaki to tour the damage. We used to joke with our dad that the reason all his sons were bald was because of his walking around the radioactive ruins of the city. One of the things I'm proudest of for my father, was that after he was discharged, he went back to high school and graduated at 20 yrs old. A lot of my friends had fathers who quit school to join the war, but I only know of one who returned to finish his education - my dad. After high school, he went to Cornell to earn a certification in milk analysis. He then went to farms around NYS to train farmers how to test and graph various components of milk. While doing that, the Korean War broke out, and he immediately signed back up, this time as a Petty Officer/Boatswain Mate on the USS New Jersey. While the ship was being refitted in the Brooklyn shipyard, my father would travel home by train to Binghamton on weekends, and that is when he met my mother. They married in November 1950 just before he took off for the next year in Korea. Interestingly, the ship's mast and structure had to be removed for the ship to go under the Brooklyn Bridge. The parts were shipped to Virginia Beach to reattach before heading to Korea, which took a couple of weeks. Then a stop at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba for supplies, then through the Panama Canal, and off to war. The ship was so large, there were only inches of clearance on its sides as it went through the locks. So once they reached the Pacific, the sailors had to hang off the sides with ropes to repaint that sides of the ship
Anyway, there's way too many stories in my family to do it justice on this site. On my mother's side, she only had one member of the family in the war - the only male of fighting age - her cousin. My grandmother and mother (a teenager at the time) used to make homemade candy and cookies and send them to him. They wrote letters back and forth for the duration. His name was "Kenny" and he was a member of the paratroop battalion known as "Easy Company". He was killed in the Battle of the Bulge. His story can be found in https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56063971/kenneth-jay-webb
Our "Wall of Fame" at my parent's home
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5TQC3jN/I0576.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the picture on the right with the stars border was hand signed by Harry S. Truman
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXJpVLdZ/I0575.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the small shadow box underneath the painting of the New Jersey contains a piece of the original deck of the New Jersey. My son (who was a combat medic in Iraq) purchased it when he and I toured the New Jersey with my dad
Oh my, am I ever so glad to have started this thread. Thank you for sharing all this. It is simply remarkable. God bless them all.
I always enjoy this speculation. One-on-one (admittedly unrealistic for a WW2 naval battle), who would have won the USS New Jersey or the IJN Yamato?
Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 06:47:30 AMI always enjoy this speculation. One-on-one (admittedly unrealistic for a WW2 naval battle), who would have won the USS New Jersey or the IJN Yamato?
In a straight out one-on-one, head-to-head battle, the Yamato would beat the New Jersey. The Yamato was more powerful (had 18" cannons) and had stronger hull defense (much thicker steel skin) that could withstand more hits. Fortunately, that scenario never happened. The Yamato was sunk (along with almost the entirety of its crew) by US air superiority. The US aerial assault dropped thousand-pound bombs from the air onto the ship, destroying their front 18" cannons and superstructure...but the real damage was done by torpedo bombers from the air, which blew the hell out of Yamato's hull
Winner in your scenario: Yamato
Versus the German Bismarck, the New Jersey would have made short work out of destroying it, but of course, the Bismark was sunk (May '41) by the British and Polish navies before the US joined WWII. The New Jersey was launched (Dec '42), more than a year after the Bismarck was at the bottom of the sea
Winner in that scenario: New Jersey
Torpedo bombers were the biggest threat and raised the biggest alarm to all ships in WWII. America was not the only country that had them as all the other countries, including Japan, had them. In fact, that was how the Japanese sunk the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0bN7dN5/main-qimg-8d63471d3feb06c1c07e34a924b3720a-lq.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Advantage the Iowa Class battleships (New Jersey, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin) had over other battleships were that they were the longest and thinnest of the major battleships of the world, hence faster. Also, US battleships were purposely engineered with that specific width so they could cross the Panama Canal (US territory at that time) and could move quickly between the Pacific and the Atlantic when necessary saving weeks of sea time and tons of refueling requirements
(https://i.postimg.cc/nh1zzYd1/Battleships-of-WWII.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Bottom line: Air and underwater superiority made Battleships obsolete. Before the rise of missiles, planes, and nuclear subs...battleships were king of the sea - the power symbol of sea warfare and land bombardment. They were called "Dreadnoughts" by all sailors for a reason...they brought "dread" to surface warfare on the high seas. No other ship wanted to deal with them in battle
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 12:21:41 PMIn a straight out one-on-one, head-to-head battle, the Yamato would beat the New Jersey. The Yamato was more powerful (had 18" cannons) and had stronger hull defense (much thicker steel skin) that could withstand more hits. Fortunately, that scenario never happened. The Yamato was sunk (along with almost the entirety of its crew) by US air superiority. The US aerial assault dropped thousand-pound bombs from the air onto the ship, destroying their front 18" cannons and superstructure...but the real damage was done by torpedo bombers from the air, which blew the hell out of Yamato's hull
Winner in your scenario: Yamato
Versus the German Bismarck, the New Jersey would have made short work out of destroying it, but of course, the Bismark was sunk (May '41) by the British and Polish navies before the US joined WWII. The New Jersey was launched (Dec '42), more than a year after the Bismarck was at the bottom of the sea
Winner in that scenario: New Jersey
Torpedo bombers were the biggest threat and raised the biggest alarm to all ships in WWII. America was not the only country that had them as all the other countries, including Japan, had them. In fact, that was how the Japanese sunk the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0bN7dN5/main-qimg-8d63471d3feb06c1c07e34a924b3720a-lq.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Advantage the Iowa Class battleships (New Jersey, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin) had over other battleships were that they were the longest and thinnest of the major battleships of the world, hence faster. Also, US battleships were purposely engineered with that specific width so they could cross the Panama Canal (US territory at that time) and could move quickly between the Pacific and the Atlantic when necessary saving weeks of sea time and tons of refueling requirements
(https://i.postimg.cc/nh1zzYd1/Battleships-of-WWII.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Bottom line: Air and underwater superiority made Battleships obsolete. Before the rise of missiles, planes, and nuclear subs...battleships were king of the sea - the power symbol of sea warfare and land bombardment. They were called "Dreadnoughts" by all sailors for a reason...they brought "dread" to surface warfare on the high seas. No other ship wanted to deal with them in battle
I am not so sure who would win. The Yamato had bigger guns and thicker armor (but lower-quality armor). The New Jersey had superior speed (5 knots faster), radar-guided firing (with computerized firing solutions), and I suspect a faster rate of fire.
Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 12:43:37 PMI am not so sure who would win. The Yamato had bigger guns and thicker armor (but lower-quality armor). The New Jersey had superior speed (5 knots faster), radar-guided firing (with computerized firing solutions), and I suspect a faster rate of fire.
The computerized firing was probably not available in WWII. Far more sophisticated than the days of pirate ships, but pretty much the same type of warfare as the days of pirates. The New Jersey loaded cannons with black powder (albeit - an incredibly larger amount), and a spearheaded (more accurate because of rifling in the barrels) cannonballs
Radar was pretty crude and could only detect sounds (usually planes) before the planes were seen. Submarines had a crude model of sonar towards the end of WWII, but it could only detect other submarines, torpedoes, or underwater mines less than a couple thousand yards...which was too late if a torpedo was coming directly at the sub. Sonar was not yet used by top water ships. Battleships were not equipped with sonar during WWII or Korea
Although they had a type of mechanical "computer", what they really had were knobs and gauges, to set speed, target range/distance, etc. To calculate moving targets during battle, sailors used slide rulers (if you can remember them...LOL). I still have my old slide rule that I used before the first digital calculator came out that could help me out when using trig. Pain in the ass to use is an understatement. I bring it out to show my grandkids and they are unimpressed. Computers in that day (WWII/Korea) were advanced mechanical renditions of the old Chinese abacuses, and slide rulers were America's answer to a scientific calculator
(https://i.postimg.cc/VN713zgq/ihoe-5c686010c9e77c000119fa62.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDJQZLQz)
Ships weaponry and advanced technology was pretty crude during WWII and Korea. Black powder cannons and eyesight was used over everything, compared to today
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 01:16:04 PMThe computerized firing was probably not available in WWII. Far more sophisticated than the days of pirate ships, but pretty much the same type of warfare as the days of pirates. The New Jersey loaded cannons with black powder (albeit - an incredibly larger amount), and a spearheaded (more accurate because of rifling in the barrels) cannonballs
Radar was pretty crude and could only detect sounds (usually planes) before the planes were seen. Submarines had a crude model of sonar towards the end of WWII, but it could only detect other submarines, torpedoes, or underwater mines less than a couple thousand yards...which was too late if a torpedo was coming directly at the sub. Sonar was not yet used by top water ships. Battleships were not equipped with sonar during WWII or Korea
Although they had a type of mechanical "computer", what they really had were knobs and gauges, to set speed, target range/distance, etc. To calculate moving targets during battle, sailors used slide rulers (if you can remember them...LOL). I still have my old slide rule that I used before the first digital calculator came out that could help me out when using trig. Pain in the ass to use is an understatement. I bring it out to show my grandkids and they are unimpressed. Computers in that day (WWII/Korea) were advanced mechanical renditions of the old Chinese abacuses, and slide rulers were America's answer to a scientific calculator
(https://i.postimg.cc/VN713zgq/ihoe-5c686010c9e77c000119fa62.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDJQZLQz)
Ships weaponry and advanced technology was pretty crude during WWII and Korea. Black powder cannons and eyesight was used over everything, compared to today
Actually, the battleships did have computers. They were mechanical and analogue but they worked rather well
The Mark 8 fire control computer in the aft secondary battery plotting room of the battleship USS IOWA
(https://preview.redd.it/the-mark-8-fire-control-computer-in-the-aft-secondary-v0-mahqiwe0u9q81.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=232c343c1452908b00f41e6baf18abfab16f02ad)
Here is a good rating of both optical as well as radar-guided fire control
http://www.combinedfleet.com/b_fire.htm
Here is a good article of one of the earlier fire control computers
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-056.php
Wow...you've done your research, Rich. I'm impressed :worship:
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 02:16:26 PMWow...you've done your research, Rich. I'm impressed :worship:
I am a huge naval history buff. I subscribe to Naval History (I am a member of the Naval Institute). I have watched many of the videos on the two channels I posted. I have watched countless hours of naval documentaries, and I have more than my fair share of naval books.
Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 02:24:58 PMI am a huge naval history buff. I subscribe to Naval History (I am a member of the Naval Institute). I have watched many of the videos on the two channels I posted. I have watched countless hours of naval documentaries, and I have more than my fair share of naval books.
Well...you are well-informed in this subject, that's for sure. What I wouldn't do to be able to talk to my father and ask him questions that I now have. I always got a kick out of watching him blow his boatswain whistle, where he'd cup his hands around it and control the screech by opening and closing his hand. He also amazed me when showing me how to tie knots. Farmers in the area used to bring him ropes that he would splice together for them. But as far as calculating distance and adjusting for pitch, roll, and yaw...he never talked about, so I doubt he was involved in the mathematics needed to make the calculations - in fact, I'm sure of it. All I know is that he used to use binoculars from atop the mast and to radio down the results of the hits after the 16" guns were fired
As a mathematician myself, I find it all very intriguing. I've always been impressed with those who calculate the earth's rotation when sending rockets to the moon as the entire trip is anything but static. Anyway, thanks for sharing the videos. I'm old, but still learning...which I think is a good thing for keeping a brain in thinking shape
As a hindnote, you would've made a good sailor. Did you ever consider joining the Navy or did your interest come later in life?
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 02:43:23 PMWell...you are well-informed in this subject, that's for sure. What I wouldn't do to be able to talk to my father and ask him questions that I now have. I always got a kick out of watching him blow his boatswain whistle, where he'd cup his hands around it and control the screech by opening and closing his hand. He also amazed me when showing me how to tie knots. Farmers in the area used to bring him ropes that he would splice together for them. But as far as calculating distance and adjusting for pitch, roll, and yaw...he never talked about, so I doubt he was involved in the mathematics needed to make the calculations - in fact, I'm sure of it. All I know is that he used to use binoculars from atop the mast and to radio down the results of the hits after the 16" guns were fired
As a mathematician myself, I find it all very intriguing. I've always been impressed with those who calculate the earth's rotation when sending rockets to the moon as the entire trip is anything but static. Anyway, thanks for sharing the videos. I'm old, but still learning...which I think is a good thing for keeping a brain in thinking shape
As a hindnote, you would've made a good sailor. Did you ever consider joining the Navy or did your interest come later in life?
I actually stopped at the naval recruiting station when I was in HS. I was considering going to Stevens Institute and I could get a full ride scholarship if I studied to be a nuclear engineer. My mother found out and didn't want me to. Then I got a full scholarship to Cooper Union. Sometimes I wonder about paths not taken.
Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 03:02:57 PMI actually stopped at the naval recruiting station when I was in HS. I was considering going to Stevens Institute and I could get a full ride scholarship if I studied to be a nuclear engineer. My mother found out and didn't want me to. Then I got a full scholarship to Cooper Union. Sometimes I wonder about paths not taken.
The nice thing about going into college first, is that you start out your military career in the officer ranks right out of the gate. Any college that offers ROTC will also pay for most of your education. As a nuclear engineer, you would have started out as a 2nd Lieutenant, which is a great springboard for a career outside the Navy, and even better if you had made the Navy your career. 20 years in the Navy and you get full pension benefits to boot. Sill in your 40's, you can start another career while banking 40% of your previous salary courtesy of Uncle Sam. A nice route to take
As a teen planning on joining the Navy, I always loved the Navy's uniforms...especially the dress whites. I too often wonder if I had taken a different path. But not much I can do about it now
Here's a recent ROTC graduate as a 2nd LT with a single bar
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqtM2Nws/dress-whites.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)