Big Blue Huddle

General Category => Big Blue Huddle => Topic started by: MightyGiants on May 22, 2024, 07:59:11 AM

Title: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 22, 2024, 07:59:11 AM
That is Banks who he is with

(https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/upload/t_new_photo_album/f_auto/giants/qvtqqlfw3tbmqnjlouzd.jpg)
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Jclayton92 on May 22, 2024, 08:38:36 AM
He's Adorees size now
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Philosophers on May 22, 2024, 09:15:05 AM
6'2" to me but sub 185 as well
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: madbadger on May 22, 2024, 03:52:26 PM
What does it matter? I can't recall a single time watching him play and thinking to myself he would have made that play if he was 15 pounds heavier.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Philosophers on May 22, 2024, 05:34:53 PM
Quote from: madbadger on May 22, 2024, 03:52:26 PMWhat does it matter? I can't recall a single time watching him play and thinking to myself he would have made that play if he was 15 pounds heavier.

As a string bean he may not be anle to press any WR.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Jclayton92 on May 22, 2024, 05:37:12 PM
Quote from: Philosophers on May 22, 2024, 05:34:53 PMAs a string bean he may not be anle to press any WR.
Funny thing is that he is significantly better in press than zone.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Topshelf21 on May 22, 2024, 05:37:36 PM
Geez, he's probably wearing a jock!

Give the guy a break....it's all genetic and you get what you're born with!!

Top
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: madbadger on May 22, 2024, 06:23:53 PM
Quote from: Philosophers on May 22, 2024, 05:34:53 PMAs a string bean he may not be anle to press any WR.

Again, at what point did you look at him and say he wasn't strong enough to play corner in the NFL?
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 22, 2024, 06:35:38 PM
It seems like it's just me, but I don't find that picture particularly good to compare sizes.  Flott is outstretched (maybe leaping?) and Banks is crouched in a ready position.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Philosophers on May 23, 2024, 03:05:08 AM
Quote from: madbadger on May 22, 2024, 06:23:53 PMAgain, at what point did you look at him and say he wasn't strong enough to play corner in the NFL?

I saw instances where his jams at LOS were easily defeated and missed tackles where some bulk might have helped him.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 23, 2024, 09:32:14 AM
Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 22, 2024, 05:37:12 PMFunny thing is that he is significantly better in press than zone.

Isnt our new scheme heavier zone than man?
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Jclayton92 on May 23, 2024, 09:37:53 AM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 23, 2024, 09:32:14 AMIsnt our new scheme heavier zone than man?
I believe it's a mix
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on May 23, 2024, 10:44:41 AM
He looks fine to me. I've been around guys who look thin, but are exceptionally strong. Some call it "string muscle" vs "mass muscle". Those thin guys tend to be not only strong, but also faster and more flexible. I'm no expert on muscle, so I did some research

From ChatGPT:

"The phenomenon where some men who look skinny are stronger than those who look muscular can be attributed to several factors, including muscle density, training style, genetics, and neuromuscular efficiency. Here's a detailed explanation:

1. Muscle Density


Lean Muscle Mass: Muscular appearance is often associated with larger muscle size, but this doesn't necessarily equate to strength. Strength is more closely related to the density and quality of muscle fibers.

Muscle Composition: Some people have a higher proportion of type II (fast-twitch) muscle fibers, which are more powerful and contribute to greater strength.

2. Training Style

Strength Training vs. Hypertrophy: Men who look muscular may focus on hypertrophy (increasing muscle size) through high-repetition, moderate-weight training. In contrast, those who appear skinny might engage in strength training with low repetitions and higher weights, leading to increased strength without significant muscle size gain.

Functional Strength: Athletes in sports that require functional strength (e.g., gymnastics, rock climbing) often develop exceptional strength without significant increases in muscle size.

3. Neuromuscular Efficiency

Motor Unit Recruitment: Stronger individuals often have better neuromuscular efficiency, meaning their nervous system is more effective at activating muscle fibers. This allows them to generate more force with the muscle mass they have.
   
Coordination and Technique: Skill and technique play significant roles in strength. Someone who is "skinny" might have developed excellent lifting techniques and motor patterns, allowing them to lift more efficiently.

4. Genetics


Genetic Predisposition: Genetics influence muscle fiber composition, tendon insertion points, limb length, and other factors that can affect strength. Some individuals are genetically predisposed to be stronger despite not having large muscles.
"

Regardless, I think Flott takes too much flack from fans for not looking like Charles Atlas. He was doing pretty well towards the end of last season. So much of football has to do with the muscle inside the skull - anticipation, understanding moves, ability to readjust quickly, etc. I tend to give coaches credit for understanding things that I don't, and I believe if the coaches didn't think Flott has potential, he'd be long gone
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 23, 2024, 10:55:14 AM
Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 23, 2024, 09:37:53 AMI believe it's a mix

I think all NFL schemes are a mix.  I got the impression that Bowen prefers zone to man and the majority of plays will be zone.  TBH, I really don't know.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2024, 11:42:14 AM
https://x.com/NYPost_Schwartz/status/1793648221732196506

https://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1793642047343346069
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2024, 12:33:31 PM
https://x.com/patricia_traina/status/1793679576700219775?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: DaveBrown74 on May 23, 2024, 06:10:34 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 23, 2024, 12:33:31 PMhttps://x.com/patricia_traina/status/1793679576700219775?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Flott was 175 at the combine. So it sounds like he's essentially not any bigger now than two years ago.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2024, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 23, 2024, 06:10:34 PMFlott was 175 at the combine. So it sounds like he's essentially not any bigger now than two years ago.

I think it's safe to say he's not going to get much bigger.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 24, 2024, 12:49:42 PM
Q. I know your goal is always to get a little bigger. That was one thing coming out. Have you made strides in that field?

COR'DALE FLOTT: I am at 177 right now. The goal is 180 obviously. But obviously to get comfortable in the weight. I don't want to gain weight and it be bad weight and be out of shape and not be able to move around. I feel good so far, continue to build with the weights staff.

Q. What were you when you came in?

COR'DALE FLOTT: What was I? I was like 174.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Philosophers on May 24, 2024, 01:16:25 PM
Big difference to me being a WR at 6'1" 177 vs a CB at that size.  WR receives violent hits but has tools such as ducking, twisting, going down to avoid sometimes the worst.

A CB has to initiate violence which means more direct straighline attack so his reduced mass is more of an issue.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 24, 2024, 01:30:50 PM
Am I crazy or is 180 not really small for a CB?
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 24, 2024, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 24, 2024, 01:30:50 PMAm I crazy or is 180 not really small for a CB?

CBs are usually in the 190-205 range

Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Philosophers on May 24, 2024, 01:49:42 PM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 24, 2024, 01:30:50 PMAm I crazy or is 180 not really small for a CB?

It's his weight for his height.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 24, 2024, 03:45:06 PM
Quote from: Philosophers on May 24, 2024, 01:49:42 PMIt's his weight for his height.

Float is 6' 1/2" so he should be in the range I listed
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: DaveBrown74 on May 24, 2024, 03:55:17 PM
Flott is skinny - no two ways about it. And given he has only gained 2-3 pounds in over two years now since the 2022 combine, it's reasonable to assume he's not going to get much bigger (maybe something like 180/182 is possible).

Being slight doesn't preclude him from being a respectable or even good player, but it is clearly not an advantage, either. We should keep in mind that it's not like we took this guy in the top 15 overall though. Mid third round is not typically where you find high-end starting corners. Maybe he's just a solid depth guy. If that's what he ends up being, I'd say that's not a bad outcome at all for a corner taken outside of the top 80 overall.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Philosophers on May 25, 2024, 09:58:41 AM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 24, 2024, 03:55:17 PMFlott is skinny - no two ways about it. And given he has only gained 2-3 pounds in over two years now since the 2022 combine, it's reasonable to assume he's not going to get much bigger (maybe something like 180/182 is possible).

Being slight doesn't preclude him from being a respectable or even good player, but it is clearly not an advantage, either. We should keep in mind that it's not like we took this guy in the top 15 overall though. Mid third round is not typically where you find high-end starting corners. Maybe he's just a solid depth guy. If that's what he ends up being, I'd say that's not a bad outcome at all for a corner taken outside of the top 80 overall.

What I think it affects is his ability to hold onto a jam or press long enough and also in his tackling having less mass.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 25, 2024, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 24, 2024, 01:45:47 PMCBs are usually in the 190-205 range



So he is like 5-7 percent lighter than that? 
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: DaveBrown74 on May 25, 2024, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 25, 2024, 10:02:03 AMSo he is like 5-7 percent lighter than that? 

Seems like he's about 7% below the absolute dead bottom of that range, yes.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 25, 2024, 05:38:03 PM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 25, 2024, 10:33:54 AMSeems like he's about 7% below the absolute dead bottom of that range, yes.

Dead bottom or lower end of average, say within a couple of standard deviations from the median?
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Philosophers on May 25, 2024, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 25, 2024, 05:38:03 PMDead bottom or lower end of average, say within a couple of standard deviations from the median?

Think his weight for his height is more relevant than weight for his position.  Most CBs I think are not 6'1"+
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: DaveBrown74 on May 25, 2024, 07:21:57 PM
Who are the best NFL CBs in somewhat recent times (say the last 20 yrs) who were lighter than 180 lbs?

Can someone provide three or four recognizable names?
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 26, 2024, 06:57:33 AM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 25, 2024, 07:21:57 PMWho are the best NFL CBs in somewhat recent times (say the last 20 yrs) who were lighter than 180 lbs?

Can someone provide three or four recognizable names?


This article covers lightest current CBs

https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-an-nfl-cornerback/



Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: DaveBrown74 on May 26, 2024, 07:23:18 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 26, 2024, 06:57:33 AMThis article covers lightest current CBs

https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-an-nfl-cornerback/





Good find. Thanks.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 26, 2024, 07:37:00 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 26, 2024, 06:57:33 AMThis article covers lightest current CBs

https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-an-nfl-cornerback/





Looking at where almost 60% land, that would likely put Flott more than 2 standard deviations from the mean.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: DaveBrown74 on May 26, 2024, 07:57:48 AM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 26, 2024, 07:37:00 AMLooking at where almost 60% land, that would likely put Flott more than 2 standard deviations from the mean.

I went back and looked at various lists of the best CBs of the 2000s and 2010s. I couldn't find one below 185 and the vast majority were, as @MightyGiants noted earlier in the thread, somewhere in the 190-210 range.

There have clearly been CBs under 180 in the NFL and are now, but it's a small group, and, based on the moderate amount of backward looking I did, the group does not appear to include any who were distinctly above average.

I think the statement that size (including weight) matters much more for CBs than it does for WRs was a pretty accurate one based on the evidence.
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: MightyGiants on May 26, 2024, 08:08:03 AM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 26, 2024, 07:57:48 AMI went back and looked at various lists of the best CBs of the 2000s and 2010s. I couldn't find one below 185 and the vast majority were, as @MightyGiants noted earlier in the thread, somewhere in the 190-210 range.

There have clearly been CBs under 180 in the NFL and are now, but it's a small group, and, based on the moderate amount of backward looking I did, the group does not appear to include any who were distinctly above average.

I think the statement that size (including weight) matters much more for CBs than it does for WRs was a pretty accurate one based on the evidence.


I was just watching Greg Cosell's video (I believe I posted it here this week), in which he discusses two ways to play press coverage. A CB can jam the receiver, or he can play up close and immediately mirror. At Flott's size, I would assume he will be pushing for the latter.   

I think where the size hurts more is in run support.


Here are Flott's PFF grades for his defensive efforts on 519 snaps

53.3 overall (he had a higher grade of 67.8 in 2022 on 338 snaps mostly driven by a higher coverage grade)

49.2 run defense

39.9 tackling

41.7 pass rush

59.4 coverage

QBs had a 95.6 rating when targeting Flott
Title: Re: Here is a good picture of Flott to judge his size
Post by: Jclayton92 on May 26, 2024, 02:01:19 PM
Flott is not going to wow in practice but he's a gamer. I don't remember if I've seen him make egregious errors or be called out by the announce team. He's kinda like J Love in that he doesn't do anything special but just a good ball player.