https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1800566618575241526
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
Giants' Wan'Dale Robinson had a good practice today catching passes from Drew Lock, including an early slant for a catch and run TD on Cor'Dale Flott
Three Giants WRs sustained some sort of injury and left practice, though: Darius Slayton, Bryce Ford-Wheaton and Chase Cota
Cota was carted off. The other two walked off. Slayton after he slipped on a route
Can't wait to read people say it is Ronnie Barnes fault
Quote from: coggs on June 11, 2024, 12:49:12 PMCan't wait to read people say it is Ronnie Barnes fault
Seriously? Are you going after fans who want to hold Barnes accountable for over a decade of being at or near the leading injured team? Pretending that those holding Barnes accountable don't know what we are talking about is pretty insulting. Some injuries are just that, luck. However, when you are consistently leading the league in injuries and time lost, you are clearly doing something wrong, regardless of your snarky remark.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 11, 2024, 01:05:35 PMSeriously? Are you going after fans who want to hold Barnes accountable for over a decade of being at or near the leading injured team? Pretending that those holding Barnes accountable don't know what we are talking about is pretty insulting. Some injuries are just that, luck. However, when you are consistently leading the league in injuries and time lost, you are clearly doing something wrong, regardless of your snarky remark.
Remember when you thought it was a good thing Judge was making players run laps to hold them accountable? You actually compared it to some training class you took where the the instructor would throw your gloves off the tower?
Quote from: coggs on June 11, 2024, 01:10:20 PMRemember when you thought it was a good thing Judge was making players run laps to hold them accountable? You actually compared it to some training class you took where the the instructor would throw your gloves off the tower?
Sorry, but I don't share your apparent belief that teams shouldn't hold anyone accountable. In my opinion, your approach is how a team has over a decade of futility (with a couple of exceptions). Accountability is a key culture element. So I couldn't disagree with your position strongly enough.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 11, 2024, 01:14:06 PMSorry, but I don't share your apparent belief that teams shouldn't hold anyone accountable. In my opinion, your approach is how a team has over a decade of futility (with a couple of exceptions). Accountability is a key culture element. So I couldn't disagree with your position strongly enough.
Ok, so for each injury Barnes should have to run a lap and climb down the tower to get his gloves. Got it. All Ball!
Quote from: coggs on June 11, 2024, 01:15:32 PMOk, so for each injury Barnes should have to run a lap and climb down the tower to get his gloves. Got it. All Ball!
Now you are attacking with a strawman argument. You seem hell-bent and determined not to hold anyone on the Giants accountable. Again, that approach is a guaranteed never to produce the sort of winning culture good teams have. I just finished reading Mike Lombardi's football done right. What you are advocating is the opposite of how the NFL's best head coaches and GMs operated.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 11, 2024, 01:20:14 PMNow you are attacking with a strawman argument. You seem hell-bent and determined not to hold anyone on the Giants accountable. Again, that approach is a guaranteed never to produce the sort of winning culture good teams have. I just finished reading Mike Lombardi's football done right. What you are advocating is the opposite of how the NFL's best head coaches and GMs operated.
What are you talking about? You loved when Judge had players running extra laps like they were in pee wee. Why not have Barnes run extra laps?
Quote from: coggs on June 11, 2024, 01:22:03 PMWhat are you talking about? You loved when Judge had players running extra laps like they were in pee wee. Why not have Barnes run extra laps?
Look, I am not doing back and forth. You are free to believe no one on the Giants should be held accountable for results. What I would ask is that you don't engage in dishonest and derogatory comments directed at your fellow fans who believe that accountability matters.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 11, 2024, 01:24:12 PMLook, I am not doing back and forth. You are free to believe no one on the Giants should be held accountable for results. What I would ask is that you don't engage in dishonest and derogatory comments directed at your fellow fans who believe that accountability matters.
What did I say that was not dishonest?
Darius Slayton collided with a defender running his route and came up slow. Went off to side but appeared to be okay.
-WR Chase Cota left on a cart after landing on his shoulder attempting to catch deep ball
A better head trainer who is held accountable certainly could have prevented these injuries.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Other injury/attendance notes from today: CB Aaron Robinson (knee) and CB Tre Hawkins (?) weren't spotted at practice. WR Gunner Olszewski (foot/ankle), TE Jack Stoll (?) and OL Evan Neal (ankle) came out to the field during practice and watched.
WR Isaiah McKenzie (?), DL Timmy Horne (knee), OLB Benton Whitley (foot/ankle), ILB Micah McFadden (?), ILB Isaiah Simmons (?), CB Stantley Thomas-Oliver (?) and S Gervarrius Owens (?) were on the side with trainers.
https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1800577980894175306
Quote from: coggs on June 11, 2024, 01:15:32 PMOk, so for each injury Barnes should have to run a lap and climb down the tower to get his gloves. Got it. All Ball!
I think you are missing Rich's point. Ronnie should be examining every aspect of how a team prepares to train and play, how they train and play and how they recover from train and play and look to best practices to prevent injuries and if injured to minimize downtime.
In his role Barnes should be analyzing every nuance to prevention and treatment of injury and to enhancing performance.
I even think he should study things like if a WR is wrapped up in a tackle just go down rather than oppose it and get injured.
Quote from: Philosophers on June 11, 2024, 01:34:07 PMI think you are missing Rich's point. Ronnie should be examining every aspect of how a team prepares to train and play, how they train and play and how they recover from train and play and look to best practices to prevent injuries and if injured to minimize downtime.
In his role Barnes should be analyzing every nuance to prevention and treatment of injury and to enhancing performance.
I even think he should study things like if a WR is wrapped up in a tackle just go down rather than oppose it and get injured.
Ronnie also signs off on the health of players aquired, like Darren Waller
https://x.com/giantinsider/status/1800622913277796506?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Crack medical staff Ronnie put together
Neal has been rehabbing from surgery to repair a small fracture in his left ankle, which was originally diagnosed as a sprain. He didn't play the final eight games of the 2023 season.
Quote from: coggs on June 11, 2024, 12:49:12 PMCan't wait to read people say it is Ronnie Barnes fault
Nobody said that and nobody will.
I think when your team is consistently the most (or among the very most) injured teams in the entire league every year for an incredibly long sample size, not only is it reasonable to question the job the head trainer is doing, but it is decidedly unreasonable to refuse to question him (or to mock those who do).
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 11, 2024, 06:27:20 PMNobody said that and nobody will.
I think when your team is consistently the most (or among the very most) injured teams in the entire league every year for an incredibly long sample size, not only is it reasonable to question the job the head trainer is doing, but it is decidedly unreasonable to refuse to question him (or to mock those who do).
I think the finger-pointing game is really what folks are saying is non-value added here, and that if you want root cause, you analyze the data and, even before that, you develop the problem statement so you are attempting to correct and prevent the right problem which is driving the undesired outcomes.
Again, this is where team data, NFL data, metrics which matter and good old fashioned root cause analysis are preferred tools to drive down to the root cause or, at a minimum identify the direct causes of the issues we are attempting to solve.
If insanity does reign as law of the land in the Medical organization, which Dr. Barnes heads, then he should be able to systematically account for that and why staffing and process improvements have not driven systematic improvement. It's a fair question deserving of a fair answer.
Instead of finger pointing, just ask that question. The response will tell you everything you need to know.
But, to be fair, of the three WR, how many are realistically going to make the roster this year? Perhaps part of the answer lies in their durability?
Peace!
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 11, 2024, 04:17:15 PMRonnie also signs off on the health of players aquired, like Darren Waller
Ouch.
Barnes is a Mara untouchable. That's all you need to know.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 11, 2024, 04:17:15 PMRonnie also signs off on the health of players aquired, like Darren Waller
Signs off on the health of the player at the time of the signing. I think Schoen and Daboll were well aware of previous injuries and understood the risks. I don't think the medical staff can veto a signing (or trade) if the player passes the physical. They and/or analytics guys can give probabilities of further injury I would think, but aside from that player not passing the physical, I don't think he has the authority to deny a player the GM wants.
I get the scrutiny, but I dont think something like Schoen trading for a guy with a huge injury history is his fault. The physical is after the trade. If he passes the trade goes through.
Quote from: kartanoman on June 11, 2024, 07:00:28 PMI think the finger-pointing game is really what folks are saying is non-value added here, and that if you want root cause, you analyze the data and, even before that, you develop the problem statement so you are attempting to correct and prevent the right problem which is driving the undesired outcomes.
Again, this is where team data, NFL data, metrics which matter and good old fashioned root cause analysis are preferred tools to drive down to the root cause or, at a minimum identify the direct causes of the issues we are attempting to solve.
If insanity does reign as law of the land in the Medical organization, which Dr. Barnes heads, then he should be able to systematically account for that and why staffing and process improvements have not driven systematic improvement. It's a fair question deserving of a fair answer.
Instead of finger pointing, just ask that question. The response will tell you everything you need to know.
But, to be fair, of the three WR, how many are realistically going to make the roster this year? Perhaps part of the answer lies in their durability?
Peace!
I don't think anyone is interested in finger pointing for the sake of finger pointing. They're saying it's Barnes' job to make sure the analysis is consistently being done and root causes identified and mitigated. If that's not his job, then whose job is it? So, he either isn't doing that part of the job or he isn't getting results that any of us are able to see.
Keep in mind Ronnie Barnes got his degrees in sports medicine in the 1970s, before the era of modern sports science. So when you have an organization that consistently ranks among the most injured, and you have case studies of injuries that seem to have been handled poorly, it's only natural for outside observers to wonder whether new leadership is needed in the trainer's office.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on June 11, 2024, 07:23:45 PMSigns off on the health of the player at the time of the signing. I think Schoen and Daboll were well aware of previous injuries and understood the risks. I don't think the medical staff can veto a signing (or trade) if the player passes the physical. They and/or analytics guys can give probabilities of further injury I would think, but aside from that player not passing the physical, I don't think he has the authority to deny a player the GM wants.
I get the scrutiny, but I dont think something like Schoen trading for a guy with a huge injury history is his fault. The physical is after the trade. If he passes the trade goes through.
I listen to many former GMs talk about how teams run. The medical departments have veto power over all player acquisitions when it comes to health and future health. A well-run medical department does far more than just give a player a physical. They look at a player's medical history and project the likelihood of future injuries and issues.
When the Waller trade was made (unless Schoen is completely incompetent), it was with the blessing of the medical department that there was a very good chance Waller would be healthy moving forward. To trade for a player with a history of hamstring issues only to have his season ruined by hamstring issues is malpractice on the part of Ronnie Barnes' department.
@uconngiant I think enough time has passed for me to share a story. Do you remember when the Giants released Luke Petigout without a real replacement (David Deihl was the projected replacement). The reason that Reese released Petigout was the medical department told Reese that they had little confidence that Petigout could make it through another season healthy. That shows the sort of power the medical people wield within even the Giants' organization. The medical departments do more than just give a pass-fail on a one-time physical.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 12, 2024, 07:26:24 AM@uconngiant
I think enough time has passed for me to share a story. Do you remember when the Giants released Luke Petigout without a real replacement (David Deihl was the projected replacement). The reason that Reese released Petigout was the medical department told Reese that they had little confidence that Petigout could make it through another season healthy. That shows the sort of power the medical people wield within even the Giants' organization. The medical departments do more than just give a pass-fail on a one-time physical.
Was the medical evaluation on Waller made public?
Quote from: Ed Vette on June 12, 2024, 07:43:19 AMWas the medical evaluation on Waller made public?
Seeing how they traded for him, it's reasonable to assume they signed off (admittedly, Schoen could have made the highly unusual move (based on the comments of every former GM I have heard) of overriding their veto).
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 12, 2024, 07:46:20 AMSeeing how they traded for him, it's reasonable to assume they signed off (admittedly, Schoen could have made the highly unusual move (based on the comments of every former GM I have heard) of overriding their veto).
It doesn't take a genius to realize there were risks involved. Schoen looked at that the risk-reward and made a decision. That's the most likely occums razor scenario as I see it.
What they should have done more work on is his psychological and mental resilience evaluation. The man cut his career short.
As for Barnes, I don't know how they managed his condition, but whatever they did, it didn't work.
Quote from: Ed Vette on June 12, 2024, 08:07:09 AMIt doesn't take a genius to realize there were risks involved. Schoen looked at that the risk-reward and made a decision. That's the most likely occums razor scenario as I see it.
What they should have done more work on is his psychological and mental resilience evaluation. The man cut his career short.
As for Barnes, I don't know how they managed his condition, but whatever they did, it didn't work.
According to Waller, the treatment nearly killed him ;)
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Today is the Giants' second and final minicamp practice before a six-week break until training camp. Interested to see if they need to limit their team periods today due to the injury situation at WR.
Gunner Olszewski (ankle) is out and Isaiah McKenzie (?) hasn't participated all spring. Chase Cota (collarbone), Bryce Ford-Wheaton (shoulder) and Darius Slayton (?) left practice yesterday. Cota and Ford-Wheaton won't practice today, not sure about Slayton.
That could leave them with just nine healthy WR. Last thing they need is a starting WR to pull a hamstring in the last practice of the spring because he's taking extra reps.
8:44 AM · Jun 12, 2024
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https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1800869383578800274
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on June 11, 2024, 07:43:53 PMI don't think anyone is interested in finger pointing for the sake of finger pointing. They're saying it's Barnes' job to make sure the analysis is consistently being done and root causes identified and mitigated. If that's not his job, then whose job is it? So, he either isn't doing that part of the job or he isn't getting results that any of us are able to see.
Keep in mind Ronnie Barnes got his degrees in sports medicine in the 1970s, before the era of modern sports science. So when you have an organization that consistently ranks among the most injured, and you have case studies of injuries that seem to have been handled poorly, it's only natural for outside observers to wonder whether new leadership is needed in the trainer's office.
I guess those CE's he's been doing online haven't kept his knowledge base currency up to standards. Those PhD pieces of papers at the bottom of the Cracker Jack's boxes aren't like the ones of the old days, I guess.
Seriously, though, you are absolutely correct and I agree with you. He has to answer to this and, as outside observers, we cannot possibly know unless we're in the business ourselves and understand exactly what "systematic" means in the world of NFL medicine, health, wellness and player safety. Injuries are something we can observe but we are ignorant as to the synthesized information behind that injury. That information is proprietary to the Giants and the NFL.
The Ronnie Barnes bashing won't solve it. Putting him on a horse and telling him to gallop and follow the sunset to my neck of the woods is a great idea; but I suspect he'll name a successor and has a plan for that individual to take the reins at some point in the future. I know, the sooner the better.
The truth is that Barnes will call the shot on his retirement. Instead of using him as the root cause of all things, perhaps the first questions to ask to define and describe the problem are:
What is the problem here?
Injuries in general?
Injuries to wide receivers?
Injuries, soft tissue variety, to wide receivers?
Injuries, collar bones, to wide receivers?
Injuries during mini-camp?
Players not preparing themselves prior to NFL sanctioned "camp/practice" events?
Where would you like to start? If you start with "eliminate injuries," well, that's too broad to focus on. Start with breaking it down, using the root cause tools I've spoke of in the past and drive down to the lowest possible root. With injuries, you're looking at several direct causes. Start with one and work on it. Use the data and information available that the Giants have, what the NFL collects and, where applicable, use benchmark data outside the league.
I can go on forever and teach a class on this but that's not the point. This dumb engineer doesn't focus on the people until the last decimal place has been fully extrapolated, analyzed, and validated with the hypothesis suggested.
I'm going back to the corner of the room with my slide ruler and look for DrakeW, the Tru Blu fan, and grab the latest Green Mountain blend in the BBS Cafe urn which is just about ready and much needed for this now disabled former cow-pattie kicker who spends his free time plucking cactus needles out of his 👢.
Peace!
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 12, 2024, 09:29:36 AMhttps://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1800869383578800274
Lol! But those things hurt like hell on raw, cold days, as he'll find out if he sticks.
I wish him all the best in a complete recovery.
Peace!
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on June 11, 2024, 07:43:53 PMI don't think anyone is interested in finger pointing for the sake of finger pointing. They're saying it's Barnes' job to make sure the analysis is consistently being done and root causes identified and mitigated. If that's not his job, then whose job is it? So, he either isn't doing that part of the job or he isn't getting results that any of us are able to see.
Keep in mind Ronnie Barnes got his degrees in sports medicine in the 1970s, before the era of modern sports science. So when you have an organization that consistently ranks among the most injured, and you have case studies of injuries that seem to have been handled poorly, it's only natural for outside observers to wonder whether new leadership is needed in the trainer's office.
This is an outstanding summary!
Quote from: kartanoman on June 12, 2024, 09:44:15 AMI guess those CE's he's been doing online haven't kept his knowledge base currency up to standards. Those PhD pieces of papers at the bottom of the Cracker Jack's boxes aren't like the ones of the old days, I guess.
Seriously, though, you are absolutely correct and I agree with you. He has to answer to this and, as outside observers, we cannot possibly know unless we're in the business ourselves and understand exactly what "systematic" means in the world of NFL medicine, health, wellness and player safety. Injuries are something we can observe but we are ignorant as to the synthesized information behind that injury. That information is proprietary to the Giants and the NFL.
The Ronnie Barnes bashing won't solve it. Putting him on a horse and telling him to gallop and follow the sunset to my neck of the woods is a great idea; but I suspect he'll name a successor and has a plan for that individual to take the reins at some point in the future. I know, the sooner the better.
The truth is that Barnes will call the shot on his retirement. Instead of using him as the root cause of all things, perhaps the first questions to ask to define and describe the problem are:
What is the problem here?
Injuries in general?
Injuries to wide receivers?
Injuries, soft tissue variety, to wide receivers?
Injuries, collar bones, to wide receivers?
Injuries during mini-camp?
Players not preparing themselves prior to NFL sanctioned "camp/practice" events?
Where would you like to start? If you start with "eliminate injuries," well, that's too broad to focus on. Start with breaking it down, using the root cause tools I've spoke of in the past and drive down to the lowest possible root. With injuries, you're looking at several direct causes. Start with one and work on it. Use the data and information available that the Giants have, what the NFL collects and, where applicable, use benchmark data outside the league.
I can go on forever and teach a class on this but that's not the point. This dumb engineer doesn't focus on the people until the last decimal place has been fully extrapolated, analyzed, and validated with the hypothesis suggested.
I'm going back to the corner of the room with my slide ruler and look for DrakeW, the Tru Blu fan, and grab the latest Green Mountain blend in the BBS Cafe urn which is just about ready and much needed for this now disabled former cow-pattie kicker who spends his free time plucking cactus needles out of his 👢.
Peace!
Have we ever seen a GM or head coach given over a decade of the worst performance in the league type benefit of the doubt? The reality is this isn't "Barnes bashing" or "pointing finder" it's holding Barnes ACCOUNTABLE for doing his job. It's not ours or anyone other than Barnes's job to figure out what he is doing wrong (or not doing right). The bottom line is Barnes is in charge, and he holds the title of senior vice president. You hire people like that to make sure your team is leading the league in healthy players, not injured players, year after year.
https://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1800906216933404952
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 12, 2024, 11:37:45 AMhttps://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1800906216933404952
If he's not ready, they should start someone else there with the ones and keep him there until he returns.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 12, 2024, 09:50:03 AMHave we ever seen a GM or head coach given over a decade of the worst performance in the league type benefit of the doubt? The reality is this isn't "Barnes bashing" or "pointing finder" it's holding Barnes ACCOUNTABLE for doing his job. It's not ours or anyone other than Barnes's job to figure out what he is doing wrong (or not doing right). The bottom line is Barnes is in charge, and he holds the title of senior vice president. You hire people like that to make sure your team is leading the league in healthy players, not injured players, year after year.
OK, Rich
@MightyGiants , I'll bite.
You show me Ronnie Barnes' Balanced Scorecard on HOW his Performance Management is measured, WHAT is he being measured on and, perhaps most important, WHO is evaluating his performance, and MAYBE THEN we can baseline the conversation on ACCOUNTABILITY.
I completely agree with you. Our comments, in this case, our colorful commentary from the peanut gallery. Beauty, however, lies in the eye of the beholder. In this case, the beholder is the one(s) who evaluate Ronnie Barnes' overall performance. In no way am I placing teflon on the VP; far from it.
It all starts with the culture of accountability. It can take on many forms; however, when accountability eliminates bad policies, bad procedures, bad processes and bad behaviors, and substitutes them with value-added behaviors (i.e. value to the company, the value the employees feel working for the company), driving value-added processes which comply with good company procedures and policies, which all align to the vision and mission statement of the folks at the top. That's accountability in its purest form. Yes, we know that is a rare gem in today's business world. In the world of today's NFL, given the source of revenue streams, there is little to no incentive for the folks at the top to rigorously shake up their entire organization in order to achieve a standard of ideals. It's all about maximizing revenue, analyzing and managing risk and hiring the best lawyers when risks turn into full-blown issues. All the rest is merely ancillary tasks, in the final analysis, in the eyes of the E-suite, CEO, board members and their chair. They live and operate in a much different world than you and I and, while we scream ACCOUNTABILITY, they laugh at us as they board their corporate jet for a weekend "summit" on the company dime.
That, my good friend, is ACCOUNTABILITY when it comes to Ronnie Barnes. Good man, though he is, but he's an E-series and he's not like you or me, and lives and operates in a different world with a different set of rules.
Peace!
Quote from: kartanoman on June 12, 2024, 03:16:09 PMOK, Rich @MightyGiants , I'll bite.
You show me Ronnie Barnes' Balanced Scorecard on HOW his Performance Management is measured, WHAT is he being measured on and, perhaps most important, WHO is evaluating his performance, and MAYBE THEN we can baseline the conversation on ACCOUNTABILITY.
I completely agree with you. Our comments, in this case, our colorful commentary from the peanut gallery. Beauty, however, lies in the eye of the beholder. In this case, the beholder is the one(s) who evaluate Ronnie Barnes' overall performance. In no way am I placing teflon on the VP; far from it.
It all starts with the culture of accountability. It can take on many forms; however, when accountability eliminates bad policies, bad procedures, bad processes and bad behaviors, and substitutes them with value-added behaviors (i.e. value to the company, the value the employees feel working for the company), driving value-added processes which comply with good company procedures and policies, which all align to the vision and mission statement of the folks at the top. That's accountability in its purest form. Yes, we know that is a rare gem in today's business world. In the world of today's NFL, given the source of revenue streams, there is little to no incentive for the folks at the top to rigorously shake up their entire organization in order to achieve a standard of ideals. It's all about maximizing revenue, analyzing and managing risk and hiring the best lawyers when risks turn into full-blown issues. All the rest is merely ancillary tasks, in the final analysis, in the eyes of the E-suite, CEO, board members and their chair. They live and operate in a much different world than you and I and, while we scream ACCOUNTABILITY, they laugh at us as they board their corporate jet for a weekend "summit" on the company dime.
That, my good friend, is ACCOUNTABILITY when it comes to Ronnie Barnes. Good man, though he is, but he's an E-series and he's not like you or me, and lives and operates in a different world with a different set of rules.
Peace!
Two thoughts:
How is this for a measure?
https://x.com/ManGamesLostNFL/status/1617604238770569216
As for accountability, at one point, I was doing IT work for a small agency. I was supervised by people who barely understood IT. I used to talk to my boss about how I really had zero accountability because if anything went wrong, I could blame it on Microsoft or just start taking techno-babble (and you wouldn't be able to follow what happened). We both agreed that they were essentially at the mercy of my professionalism and internal ethics. The same thing applies to the Giants. These are football men, not people with medical backgrounds. From Mara on down, none of them are qualified to properly judge the job Ronnie Barnes does. However, over a long enough time frame (like a decade plus), one can look to results (in terms of man-days lost) to start judging job performance.
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 12, 2024, 03:59:34 PMTwo thoughts:
How is this for a measure?
https://x.com/ManGamesLostNFL/status/1617604238770569216
As for accountability, at one point, I was doing IT work for a small agency. I was supervised by people who barely understood IT. I used to talk to my boss about how I really had zero accountability because if anything went wrong, I could blame it on Microsoft or just start taking techno-babble (and you wouldn't be able to follow what happened). We both agreed that they were essentially at the mercy of my professionalism and internal ethics. The same thing applies to the Giants. These are football men, not people with medical backgrounds. From Mara on down, none of them are qualified to properly judge the job Ronnie Barnes does. However, over a long enough time frame (like a decade plus), one can look to results (in terms of man-days lost) to start judging job performance.
I respect you, your professional background and your integrity to understand the nuance you are clearly pointing out in a job role which lacks clear, objective role description tied to responsibility, accountability and authority; however, your actions play a direct, or sometimes indirect part, on the bottom line. I'm currently in a similar role in my profession where I can be consultant, problem solver or jump in and get the job done where I touch product and it impacts form, fit or function.
You know I have always touted the "Lost Man-Games Due To Injury" as arguably the most important measure to an NFL organization, as well as the NFL itself, as it closely aligns with "Best In Industry" practices with OSHA and comparable organizations' metrics. Not only does the metric itself tell a powerful story, but using the raw data used to synthesize the metric a series of derivative metrics can be synthesized along the lines of my earlier post about analyzing cause and effect. That, and other Engineering and Quality analysis tools can drive the study into depths the level of detail the Rams currently operate at and, as a result, have driven data solutions which have proven reliable over the test of time (for the most part).
Your analogy between the IT department and the Giants' Medical organization is reasonable enough as long as the people at the top have defined, and I've used this term quite a bit, "Metrics That Matter." How would the Maras and Tischs know what matters? They're not little innocent babes in the woods. They attend NFL League meetings with other owners. John Mara is on the competition committee, as well as other sidebar gatherings, and players' safety is among the most important subjects discussed in those meetings.
The fact that changes and movement have been taking place under both Operations and Medical is noticeable. Perhaps not yet on the bottom line, but these new folks need time to get settled into their roles and work with who is currently there, figure out what's broken, try to implement change, and that's where we must look at and see what they are doing to instill improvement, or are they "yes men" sticking to the status quo. That's the challenging part.
Working for the Mara family isn't working for a Fortune 500 company, I think it is safe to say. Your passion for wanting to drive accountability is not without merit; however, beating the same brick wall with the same hammer, and not getting anything from it isn't going to get it done; it's time for a different approach.
An idea: why don't we try and take a look at the new staff hired in the last couple of years. Let's see if it is possible to gain access to them and see what their thoughts are on the big picture. They obviously see the issue as we all do. I would be very interested in learning from them what they are trying to do, from their span of control, to change outcomes. I would love to know where they see the challenges are in implementing change.
When folks attend training camp next month, perhaps we can find a volunteer to try and maybe get an autograph from one of the medical staff and steal a couple of minutes of their time and talk to them and ask. After all, this won't be solved in one big lick of the ice cream cone; it will be the sum total of a team working together to help the players be at their very best.
I'm aligned with you, on the theoretical side. I'm very much grasping at straws at what we're seeing and why so many of them go down and can't get up. If the Giants would hire me full-time, and fully re-locate me back to Jersey, and make it worth my while, I'd dig in the trenches and help uncover some of it, but I'm afraid the higher up I go, the more I'll be spinning my wheels; I'll leave it at that.
Peace!
I was thinking a simple way that could help Barnes and the Giants out is this.
Why don't they take a look at the fifty to one hundred least injured players in the NFL, over the past ten years, and then just copy and mimic exactly what these players have done, and maybe just maybe that may help in reducing some of the injuries.
Just a thought?
Most successful organizations in any competitive industry are ultimately results-driven. When results are consistently poor in any one area, generally both process and, if it is a group of individuals involved, leadership are eventually questioned. If the results have been consistently poor over a meaningful sample sizes, generally changes involving at least one, and more often than not both of the above are eventually made.
Have the Giants questioned either of these things when it comes to their penchant for being the most injured team in the league year after year? Or are they resistant to change and more inclined to chalk their results up to bad luck?