First and foremost, this story is terrible. The man who was gunned down in the middle of Manhattan was a husband and father of two boys. On a human level, it is a gut-wrenching story.
It is also a fascinating story, and it has captivated the nation. Apart from a couple of glimpses of his face and some details about his movements before and immediately after the shooting, we know little about the shooter. No doubt the authorities know more than the public, but we are, as of now, some 57 hours since the shooting at the time of this writing, and no arrest has been made nor has there been any release of the suspect's name.
It seems the suspect likely raced to the Port Authority bus terminal after the shooting, got on a bus, and left NYC. According to reports, it is not known what bus he got on or where he is.
It is also not clear whether this shooter was a hired professional or a lone wolf with a beef. The shell casings had words on them suggesting he was sending a message of disgruntlement with unpaid medical claims, but that of course does not preclude that another party is involved. The shooter exhibited poise and skill with the firearm that made him look like more than your average angry citizen who went out and bought again, but he was also a little sloppy in removing his mask at the hostel at which he was staying in order to flirt with a female employee, and I think he left behind a water bottle and half-eaten protein bar, potentially leaving his DNA.
Do you think this shooter was acting alone? Do you expect him to be caught, and if so, how soon? Does the fact that the victim was facing a justice department probe have anything to do with his death?
What other thoughts and theories do you have?
Too many unknowns at this point for me to speculate.
There's no justification for killing someone like that. None.
All the details will come out in time but it's unfortunate the amount of backlash that the victim, and more so, UHC, are receiving, while the shooter is being praised by a lot of people.
Bizarro world.
I'm pretty much in the middle of a self imposed news blackout, but I did hear of this shooting as I'm insured by UHC. Are there people actually praising the cold blooded killing by this assassin? Disgusting!!
It goes without saying that there is no justification. Anyone who thinks this is cool and is rooting for this shooter to get away with this is sick and amoral.
It is like watching a new series on Netflix or something like that. I think people have watched too many of these and that's why they are rooting for the 'anti-establishment guy' to get away with it. How many series have we seen like this already? In fact, I am watching Day of the Jackal right now, and in a way, similar, where the killer is a hired assassin, ready to kill anyone for the right price, no matter how hard it is, and you know what If find myself rooting for him. Boy are we all sickos.
Today they found the backpack with loads of monopoly money in it. WTF is that.
Two things:
1) he'll get caught. He left too many clues behind. Mayor Adams said in this morning news that they know his name. He's toast
2) I suspect he was disgruntled after someone close to him was denied their rightful settlement...perhaps a family member died because of it :-??
Not that it justifies murder, but:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrZmM3rJ/Clipboard021.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
An Ivy school Graduate in Engineering, Prep schools, and he's stupid enough to be carrying the murder weapon, show his face and carry incriminating evidence.
Did he pick this target for a reason?
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 09, 2024, 07:06:14 PMAn Ivy school Graduate in Engineering, Prep schools, and he's stupid enough to be carrying the murder weapon, show his face and carry incriminating evidence.
Did he pick this target for a reason?
Also a supposedly ardent "anti-capitalist" who frequents place like McDonalds and Starbucks.
Riiight, buddy. Got it.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 09, 2024, 07:08:04 PMAlso a supposedly ardent "anti-capitalist" who frequents place like McDonalds and Starbucks.
Riiight, buddy. Got it.
Exactly
Supposedly, he also had gone through traumatic back issues and I suspect, his health insurance decided not to cover the cost (that's my speculation)
As to why he still had the gun and carried a manifesto probably had to do with his high intelligence, believing that he was too smart to get caught. As to the manifesto, perhaps that was a backup statement to be left to the public in the rare chance he did get caught. Regardless, he left enough bread crumbs for the detectives to follow, that Barney Fife could have figured it out. His actions tell me he is a highly intelligent idiot. I knew a lot of them in college - idealistic beliefs without a lick of common sense
Here is part of a note or a manifesto he left/had with hom
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 10, 2024, 10:57:59 AMSupposedly, he also had gone through traumatic back issues and I suspect, his health insurance decided not to cover the cost (that's my speculation)
As to why he still had the gun and carried a manifesto probably had to do with his high intelligence, believing that he was too smart to get caught. As to the manifesto, perhaps that was a backup statement to be left to the public in the rare chance he did get caught. Regardless, he left enough bread crumbs for the detectives to follow, that Barney Fife could have figured it out. His actions tell me he is a highly intelligent idiot. I knew a lot of them in college - idealistic beliefs without a lick of common sense
Great take. Agree with all of it.
I think in some way, he wanted to get caught
Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 10, 2024, 05:58:10 PMI think in some way, he wanted to get caught
Tend to agree with this as well. He certainly seemed to know he eventually would and seems like he convinced himself he was ok with it.
I wonder how he'll feel about that decision in hindsight his first night in a maximum security prison, knowing he will probably never get out, and if he does, it will be decades from now.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 10, 2024, 06:00:19 PMTend to agree with this as well. He certainly seemed to know he eventually would and seems like he convinced himself he was ok with it.
I wonder how he'll feel about that decision in hindsight his first night in a maximum security prison, knowing he will probably never get out, and if he does, it will be decades from now.
I have a lot of the same thoughts. Right now on social media he is being called a hero by many people. In 5 years when he is still facing decades in prison and people have long since moved on, I would think his view will change.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 10, 2024, 06:12:14 PMI have a lot of the same thoughts. Right now on social media he is being called a hero by many people. In 5 years when he is still facing decades in prison and people have long since moved on, I would think his view will change.
For sure, and I think you nailed it with the final point. I think this guy correctly predicted he'd be praised, if not lionized, by lots of people for doing this. He got that part right.
I suspect the part he didn't calculate correctly is that nobody will care about him anymore in a 4-5 years when this is all over and he's sitting in a supermax prison in the middle of nowhere with basically no hope of getting out anytime in the next 25-30 years, if ever.
If someone told him that right now he'd surely deny it, but it will sink in eventually.
I suspect his Attorney will plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 10, 2024, 07:16:33 PMI suspect his Attorney will plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
Yup. He has no other play here.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 10, 2024, 07:16:33 PMI suspect his Attorney will plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
I guess stuff like this can't hurt at this point if he's going for the insanity play. Might as well act like a total nut-job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCiPMMbGCIk
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 10, 2024, 07:46:39 PMI guess stuff like this can't hurt at this point if he's going for the insanity play. Might as well act like a total nut-job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCiPMMbGCIk
That and the inside the court antics lead me to think he was setting up his plea.
The world is going to hell in a handbasket. His past professor of sociology at University of Pennsylvania left a a couple notes on social media (since been taken down) that she "has never been more proud of one of her students" and that she has "never been prouder to be a professor at University of Penn"...WTF
I guess it's okay to celebrate cold-blooded murder if it advances a political agenda :no: :crazy: >:( 2
"A University of Pennsylvania professor (Julia Alekseyeva) made social media posts celebrating Luigi Mangione and then appeared to take down her TikTok account after going viral for celebrating the murder by the suspected killer of UnitedHealthCare CEO Brian Thompson..." NY POST
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJpQLL7Z/Clipboard901.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/28jNTRPg/Clipboard902.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Alleged CEO killer praised Elon Musk and backed Peter Thiel in social media posts
QuoteThe alleged killer of UnitedHealthcare's CEO shared content praising billionaire Elon Musk and venture capitalist Peter Thiel on social media.
Luigi Mangione, who was charged with murder in New York City on Monday night over the fatal shooting of Brian Thompson, has been portrayed as being "anticapitalist" by some and hailed a " hero" by others for taking a radical stance against the American health insurance industry.
But the reality appears to be more complex, with the Ivy League-educated 26-year-old having supported sentiments shared by some of the world's richest men, according to his X profile.
Earlier this year, Mangione shared a post on his X account of another user praising Musk for his "commitment to long-term civilization success."
It referenced a post by Musk from March this year where he claimed he was "in a battle to the death with the anti-civilizational woke mind virus."
One of the most recent posts on Mangione's X's profile was a repost of a video of Thiel, the right-wing billionaire who introduced JD Vance to Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago in 2021.
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/luigi-mangione-murder-unitedhealthcare-elon-musk-b2661922.html
I cringe a little bit whenever the media mentions his first name, Luigi. Luigi is my official first name and I never cared for it.
My last name has a lot of vowels in it too. Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert thinks the killer's name is funny. Oh well.
I will tell you what: I sympathize with people who are fed up with insurance companies. Not to the point of gunning down the executives, but those companies certainly play fast and loose with people's lives.
I have HMO health insurance. Back in the spring, I had a minor medical procedure. I followed the procedure of going to my primary doctor and getting a referral. I brought my referral to the specialist and got my procedure.
While I was sitting in the ER after being struck by a car, I got an email on my phone from the specialist telling me I was on the hook for thousands of dollars in medical costs. When I was able to look into the matter, I found that my health insurance had denied the claim.
I reached out to the health insurance and explained to them that I had gone to the primary doctor (one on their list), got my referral, and went to a specialist on their list. Turns out the form the primary doctor gave me was incorrect and their specialist had failed to identify the issue as well. The insurance company told me I was out of luck and the best I could do was file a petition to try and overturn their ruling and hope.
Well, I was not too happy and filed a formal complaint with the NJ agency that oversees insurance. Apparently, they take those complaints seriously. The same day, they said they were referring it to a different agency, and the insurance company reached out to me about trying to resolve the issue.
At the same time, I worked with the managers of my primary doctor (the ones that screwed up the paperwork).
Between both efforts and with many hours of needless frustration and aggregation, I was able to get the insurance company to honor their commitment to cover my medical costs.
I was none too pleased with my insurance company through all of this (and not that fond of my primary either).
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2024, 03:15:47 PMI will tell you what: I sympathize with people who are fed up with insurance companies. Not to the point of gunning down the executives, but those companies certainly play fast and loose with people's lives.
I have HMO health insurance. Back in the spring, I had a minor medical procedure. I followed the procedure of going to my primary doctor and getting a referral. I brought my referral to the specialist and got my procedure.
While I was sitting in the ER after being struck by a car, I got an email on my phone from the specialist telling me I was on the hook for thousands of dollars in medical costs. When I was able to look into the matter, I found that my health insurance had denied the claim.
I reached out to the health insurance and explained to them that I had gone to the primary doctor (one on their list), got my referral, and went to a specialist on their list. Turns out the form the primary doctor gave me was incorrect and their specialist had failed to identify the issue as well. The insurance company told me I was out of luck and the best I could do was file a petition to try and overturn their ruling and hope.
Well, I was not too happy and filed a formal complaint with the NJ agency that oversees insurance. Apparently, they take those complaints seriously. The same day, they said they were referring it to a different agency, and the insurance company reached out to me about trying to resolve the issue.
At the same time, I worked with the managers of my primary doctor (the ones that screwed up the paperwork).
Between both efforts and with many hours of needless frustration and aggregation, I was able to get the insurance company to honor their commitment to cover my medical costs.
I was none too pleased with my insurance company through all of this (and not that fond of my primary either).
But you didn't shoot anyone in the back over it.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 11, 2024, 10:00:55 AMThe world is going to hell in a handbasket. His past professor of sociology at University of Pennsylvania left a a couple notes on social media (since been taken down) that she "has never been more proud of one of her students" and that she has "never been prouder to be a professor at University of Penn"...WTF
I guess it's okay to celebrate cold-blooded murder if it advances a political agenda :no: :crazy: >:( 2
"A University of Pennsylvania professor (Julia Alekseyeva) made social media posts celebrating Luigi Mangione and then appeared to take down her TikTok account after going viral for celebrating the murder by the suspected killer of UnitedHealthCare CEO Brian Thompson..." NY POST
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJpQLL7Z/Clipboard901.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/28jNTRPg/Clipboard902.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
What a complete and utter disgrace.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2024, 03:15:47 PMI will tell you what: I sympathize with people who are fed up with insurance companies. Not to the point of gunning down the executives, but those companies certainly play fast and loose with people's lives.
I have HMO health insurance. Back in the spring, I had a minor medical procedure. I followed the procedure of going to my primary doctor and getting a referral. I brought my referral to the specialist and got my procedure.
While I was sitting in the ER after being struck by a car, I got an email on my phone from the specialist telling me I was on the hook for thousands of dollars in medical costs. When I was able to look into the matter, I found that my health insurance had denied the claim.
I reached out to the health insurance and explained to them that I had gone to the primary doctor (one on their list), got my referral, and went to a specialist on their list. Turns out the form the primary doctor gave me was incorrect and their specialist had failed to identify the issue as well. The insurance company told me I was out of luck and the best I could do was file a petition to try and overturn their ruling and hope.
Well, I was not too happy and filed a formal complaint with the NJ agency that oversees insurance. Apparently, they take those complaints seriously. The same day, they said they were referring it to a different agency, and the insurance company reached out to me about trying to resolve the issue.
At the same time, I worked with the managers of my primary doctor (the ones that screwed up the paperwork).
Between both efforts and with many hours of needless frustration and aggregation, I was able to get the insurance company to honor their commitment to cover my medical costs.
I was none too pleased with my insurance company through all of this (and not that fond of my primary either).
Glad you were able to get it resolved. I, too, sympathize with you and others who have to jump through unnecessary hoops even after you followed their procedures to a T.
Quote from: T200 on December 11, 2024, 06:54:24 PMGlad you were able to get it resolved. I, too, sympathize with you and others who have to jump through unnecessary hoops even after you followed their procedures to a T.
It took me months, and I am pretty resourceful and tenacious. I got lucky that my complaint filed by the state was taken seriously. I have my doubts about whether the insurance company would have been so willing to work with me to resolve the issue if they had not been concerned about the complaint. I also had help from someone who has had a lot of medical and insurance issues and who had advised me not to pay because once you do, you will never get the money back.
I can only imagine what people who don't have the time, ability, and resources to deal with such a situation go through. I imagine many end up paying the huge expense. I think experiences like mine are why healthcare companies are so reviled.
Don't even get me started where I needed an injection under my kneecap to help my knee problems, and the insurance said I needed to get the drug that required 3 injections rather than one.
South Park did a parody on insurance companies a few months ago. Sadly, it's not far from the truth
My wife worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield decades ago in a department that approved or denied claims. Her manager was a piece of work. She would approve or deny claims depending on her mood that day.
On one day she might say "No, we're not paying for that". The next day for the same procedure she would tell my wife "Of course we pay for that".
I guess the moral of the story is don't take the insurance company's decision as the final word.
While I worked for myself, I used to have HIP as our health provider as it was basically all we could afford and they weren't cheap. anyway, when my son was born, he got sick and needed surgery when he was 6 weeks old. To make this long story a lot shorter, he was in intensive care for over 2 weeks. I got a call one night that he wasn't doing well and they needed my permission to do things to try and save him. I asked what the HIP doctor recommended and they told me they couldn't reach them.
Frustrated, they did what was necessary and the next day I went to the hospital and asked who they could recommend as private pediatricians. They recommended someone to us, we used them and they basically saved my son's life. They saw him for the next 2 weeks and he recovered fully. As I dropped my HIP doctor, I also dropped my health coverage, so I was on my own. When I got the bills I was overwhelmed. The amounts were, to say the least way over what I could afford. I set up some payment plans but after about 2 years, I stopped paying and that was about it, I think they all understood. But I still needed a health plan so we had to continue with HIP. To say when I was able to drop them and sign on with a real health plan when my wife went back to work was one of the happiest days of my life. What a farce HIP was.
One interesting thing about this story is that the victim in this case has had almost no reporting about him or his life. Very little anyway, and I would say infinitesimal compared to the alleged shooter.
The two most dominant themes that have come out of this tragedy are:
(1) Glorification of/fascination with the alleged killer, including fawning over his looks, being obsessed with his rich family, hearing from people who knew him, etc.
(2) Trashing of the insurance industry.
In comparison to the two above story lines, there has been almost nothing written/reported about the father of two who was murdered. It is pretty clear that most people have no interest in hearing anything about him.
I don't condone murder. There are more constructive ways to make a statement about how effed up privatized health insurance is.
But our local news story on his death (he was a Minnesotan) was kind of telling, in that everyone who had anything nice to say about Thompson was either a family member or another rich insurance executive.