https://x.com/dduggan21/status/1876773912949686347?s=46&t=AA9Ptl-VPYK0JnuHE-oAWA
I doubt many of us had him on our list of "must keep".
But that 8 game run in '22 was fun.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on January 07, 2025, 06:38:17 PMhttps://x.com/dduggan21/status/1876773912949686347?s=46&t=AA9Ptl-VPYK0JnuHE-oAWA
I doubt many of us had him on our list of "must keep".
But that 8 game run in '22 was fun.
So much fun we still havent been able to pay off that credit card bill.
Dabol couldn't figure out how to utilize Hodgins after he had a greal good season and he has done the same with Hyatt after a promising rookie year where he shower flashes and separation ability.
What does it say about Dabol when he can't improve a WR
Quote from: Trench on January 08, 2025, 06:58:08 AMDabol couldn't figure out how to utilize Hodgins after he had a greal good season and he has done the same with Hyatt after a promising rookie year where he shower flashes and separation ability.
What does it say about Dabol when he can't improve a WR
After the 2022 season, Carl Banks talked about the coach's frustration at the lack of speed at the WR position. That lack of speed required the receiver to be schemed open rather than letting him beat his man one-on-one. Hodgins, with his 4.61 40 time, was the poster boy for lack of speed, despite his good hands and crisp route running.
I think crisp route running is more important than speed. Look at Wes Welker and Troy Brown for example. I know route running can be taught and speed can't but it's not that easy!
Quote from: WheresDayne on January 08, 2025, 08:37:52 AMI think crisp route running is more important than speed. Look at Wes Welker and Troy Brown for example. I know route running can be taught and speed can't but it's not that easy!
I believe poor route running (he needs to chop his feet to slow down before making cuts) is what has been holding Hyatt back despite his impressive speed.
All BS excuses to bail out Dabol. For all his "expertise" what we HAVE seen is a "guru" who watched players like Hodgens, Bellinger, Theo (beginning of season) and Hyatt year one all do very well - only to see them either in a doghouse or not targeted/used. I read here early in season how Theo was a bust, as was Bellinger and then as soon as we started going to them, both of them produced!...same with Tracy out of the backfield.
At some point it's in Dabol.
our loss...niners gain.
Quote from: President Rick on January 08, 2025, 04:11:39 PMour loss...niners gain.
What will we do without his 2 catches for 12 yards! =))
Quote from: Trench on January 08, 2025, 06:58:08 AMDabol couldn't figure out how to utilize Hodgins after he had a greal good season and he has done the same with Hyatt after a promising rookie year where he shower flashes and separation ability.
What does it say about Dabol when he can't improve a WR
Hodgins spent virtually the entire year on our practice squad, meaning any team could have signed him to their active roster. What does that say about the NFL's other 31 coaches, who also determined they couldn't overcome his very limited physical abilities? Furthermore, Hodgins signed a "futures contract," which has a maximum value that cannot exceed the league minimum. This suggests that even Hodgins himself understands his limited options and value. He lacks speed and has minimal explosiveness, making it entirely unfair to blame Daboll for being unable to overcome Hodgins' physical limitations.
Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 12:51:54 PMHodgins spent virtually the entire year on our practice squad, meaning any team could have signed him to their active roster. What does that say about the NFL's other 31 coaches, who also determined they couldn't overcome his very limited physical abilities? Furthermore, Hodgins signed a "futures contract," which has a maximum value that cannot exceed the league minimum. This suggests that even Hodgins himself understands his limited options and value. He lacks speed and has minimal explosiveness, making it entirely unfair to blame Daboll for being unable to overcome Hodgins' physical limitations.
I understand, but the year we won the playoff game against Minnesota, he was maybe our best WR and he did make huge catches in big spots...I'm not saying he's an all pro but u shouldn't go from being the most reliable guy to a practice squad.
Add in Hyatt and Bellinger lack of targets in year 2 and I think it's very fair to question what did Daboll do to them and why?
Bellinger was targeted late this season and produced so the whole thing is wacky. Dabol should be made to answer why
Quote from: Trench on January 08, 2025, 09:48:30 AMAll BS excuses to bail out Dabol. For all his "expertise" what we HAVE seen is a "guru" who watched players like Hodgens, Bellinger, Theo (beginning of season) and Hyatt year one all do very well - only to see them either in a doghouse or not targeted/used. I read here early in season how Theo was a bust, as was Bellinger and then as soon as we started going to them, both of them produced!...same with Tracy out of the backfield.
At some point it's in Daboll.
They all ran routes and were open plenty, VERY WIDE open, not Dabolls fault Daniel Jones was blind or could not do anything beyond his first read that he always locked onto.
Daboll has things to improve, but this in my opinion is not one of them.
For some of the players, such as Hyatt, I also think saying they did very well is a bit too much credit, but until we have a QB that will throw to wide open guys we will never know either way, IDC who the coach is. You can coach wide open guys, the playcaller doesn't throw the ball.
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 09, 2025, 01:14:01 PMThey all ran routes and were open plenty, VERY WIDE open, not Dabolls fault Daniel Jones was blind or could not do anything beyond his first read that he always locked onto.
Daboll has things to improve, but this in my opinion is not one of them.
For some of the players, such as Hyatt, I also think saying they did very well is a bit too much credit, but until we have a QB that will throw to wide open guys we will never know either way, IDC who the coach is. You can coach wide open guys, the playcaller doesn't throw the ball.
Fair point but Hyatt looked so darn good his rookie year. U don't just lose that
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 01:19:52 PMFair point but Hyatt looked so darn good his rookie year. U don't just lose that
I saw some plays earlier in the year, where he was wide open, last year too. This offense has been held back by Jones, the play calls have done what they set out to do, much more than Jones defenders would ever consider giving credit for.
I do think Hyatt is a bit one dimensional, and feel it was just a bad connection between that dimension and the QBs abilities, or lack thereof.
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 01:12:21 PMI understand, but the year we won the playoff game against Minnesota, he was maybe our best WR and he did make huge catches in big spots...I'm not saying he's an all pro but u shouldn't go from being the most reliable guy to a practice squad.
Add in Hyatt and Bellinger lack of targets in year 2 and I think it's very fair to question what did Daboll do to them and why?
Bellinger was targeted late this season and produced so the whole thing is wacky. Dabol should be made to answer why
Who would you inactivate to allow Hodgins to start? Due to his lack of speed, Hodgins is a liability on special teams, which means he can't replace WRs #5 or #6, as they provide value as kick returners, punt returners, or gunners. This narrows the options to Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, and Slayton. Those players were either injured (Slayton and Robinson) or not on the roster during the 2022 season. It's unlikely that you'd bench any of them to make room for Hodgins. This is why I find it unfair to blame the head coach for Hodgins' lack of development. The reality is that he simply hasn't proven to be better than the players ahead of him to justify earning a game-day jersey.
Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 02:14:38 PMWho would you inactivate to allow Hodgins to start? Due to his lack of speed, Hodgins is a liability on special teams, which means he can't replace WRs #5 or #6, as they provide value as kick returners, punt returners, or gunners. This narrows the options to Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, and Slayton. Those players were either injured (Slayton and Robinson) or not on the roster during the 2022 season. It's unlikely that you'd bench any of them to make room for Hodgins. This is why I find it unfair to blame the head coach for Hodgins' lack of development. The reality is that he simply hasn't proven to be better than the players ahead of him to justify earning a game-day jersey.
I think WanDale is a terrible absolutely terrible route runner/possesion receiver due to the fact 90% of the time he is short of the markers.
I'd rather Hodgens over him. And Slayton is a drop guy also. I have no issue losing Slayton next year. Let Hyatt get his reps
Wandale is better than Hodgins, in my opinion its not even close. Hodgins only advantage would be his size since he is 6'4.
I would have been fine keeping Hodgins as a potential #3 or #4 WR next year depending what happens with Slayton. But I think 2022 was mostly a product of there not being many people to throw to so he just had volume.
He only caught 33 balls for 351 yards and 4 TDs. He had a great game in the playoffs to follow that up, but it was against a pitiful Vikings D. He didn't really set the world on fire or anything, if he did he wouldnt have been on the PS for so long plenty of WR needy teams someone would have tried to rekindle it.
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 02:24:37 PMI think WanDale is a terrible absolutely terrible route runner/possesion receiver due to the fact 90% of the time he is short of the markers.
I'd rather Hodgens over him. And Slayton is a drop guy also. I have no issue losing Slayton next year. Let Hyatt get his reps
Despite playing with the NFL's worst quarterback rooms, Wan'Dale managed 93 catches this season, ranking him 13th in the league. If the Giants released him, he'd easily earn far more than the league minimum. Yet, you want to start a player who all 32 teams deemed unworthy of anything more than the league minimum? I also highly doubt Hodgins will make the 49ers roster. When it comes to wide receivers, you definitely have a soft spot for underdogs, Trench :P
Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 02:58:12 PMDespite playing with the NFL's worst quarterback rooms, Wan'Dale managed 93 catches this season, ranking him 13th in the league. If the Giants released him, he'd easily earn far more than the league minimum. Yet, you want to start a player who all 32 teams deemed unworthy of anything more than the league minimum? I also highly doubt Hodgins will make the 49ers roster. When it comes to wide receivers, you definitely have a soft spot for underdogs, Trench :P
WanDale 93 catches could've been eaten up by many types of WR. I was high on him but he dropped big passes in big spots and the guy runs terrible routes. His route running is awful guys. His type WR is easy to find. He's a different type than Hodgens yes. But Hodgens showed he can make big catches in big spots. WanDale has shown opposite. I realize he has more potential than Hodgens I'll give that. I'm not saying Hodgens is great either but I am saying he can do a lot for a team
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 03:17:02 PMWanDale 93 catches could've been eaten up by many types of WR. I was high on him but he dropped big passes in big spots and the guy runs terrible routes. His route running is awful guys. His type WR is easy to find. He's a different type than Hodgens yes. But Hodgens showed he can make big catches in big spots. WanDale has shown opposite. I realize he has more potential than Hodgens I'll give that. I'm not saying Hodgens is great either but I am saying he can do a lot for a team
You've completely lost me, Trench. I suspect you haven't been watching the All-22 film. In fact, Robinson runs very crisp routes, which was highlighted as his top attribute in his college scouting reports. You're conflating his catches being short of the sticks with poor route running. However, that's a result of play design, not his ability to execute routes.
On many of those plays, Robinson was the designated hot receiver. The real issue lies with the quarterback's inability to read the field, make anticipatory throws, or thread the ball through tight windows. This led to constant checkdowns, which you're mistakenly attributing to a failure in Robinson's route running.
If you want to believe Hodgins is currently better because he made a few catches against a historically bad defensive secondary, that's your prerogative. However, i strongly doubt a single NFL GM would agree with that assessment. Hodgins signed a futures contract—typically reserved for players likely to end up on the practice squad or as camp fodder. That speaks volumes about how the league views his value. If Robinson was released, he would earn very good #2 WR money.
As for the drops...he had 6 on 140 TGTs. Here are the WRs with more drops on less targets:
Jerry Jeudy
Amari Cooper
Ja'Marr Chase
Malik Nabers
Courtland Sutton
Breece Hall
Jayden Reed
Alvin Kamara
Jaylen Waddle
CeeDee Lamb
Garrett Wilson
Brian Thomas
David Njoku
Romeo Doubs
Travis Kelce
The biggest knock on Won'Dale Robinson is his 139th-ranked 7.5 yards per catch average (Tied with Tracy, interestingly enough)
Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 03:47:28 PMYou've completely lost me, Trench. I suspect you haven't been watching the All-22 film. In fact, Robinson runs very crisp routes, which was highlighted as his top attribute in his college scouting reports. You're conflating his catches being short of the sticks with poor route running. However, that's a result of play design, not his ability to execute routes.
On many of those plays, Robinson was the designated hot receiver. The real issue lies with the quarterback's inability to read the field, make anticipatory throws, or thread the ball through tight windows. This led to constant checkdowns, which you're mistakenly attributing to a failure in Robinson's route running.
If you want to believe Hodgins is currently better because he made a few catches against a historically bad defensive secondary, that's your prerogative. However, i strongly doubt a single NFL GM would agree with that assessment. Hodgins signed a futures contract—typically reserved for players likely to end up on the practice squad or as camp fodder. That speaks volumes about how the league views his value. If Robinson was released, he would earn very good #2 WR money.
As for the drops...he had 6 on 140 TGTs. Here are the WRs with more drops on less targets:
Jerry Jeudy
Amari Cooper
Ja'Marr Chase
Malik Nabers
Courtland Sutton
Breece Hall
Jayden Reed
Alvin Kamara
Jaylen Waddle
CeeDee Lamb
Garrett Wilson
Brian Thomas
David Njoku
Romeo Doubs
Travis Kelce
Thank you for the clarification. Yes, I was 100% conflating (or attributing) his running short of the sticks to route running. If that it is as u say not poor route running then I stand corrected. But I have a hard time believing him being short of the sticks so frequently is a result of scheme. I can say for certain watching rewinds, out QB many many times throws to WanDale without looking anywhere else - and WanDale is sitting a yard short of the sticks. That can't be the design of the play so consistently.
If I'm wrong I stand corrected.
My push for Hodgens has more to do with my frustration on WanDale than it does for my desire to have Hodgens or his ability. I'm just that frustrated with WanDale. He was supposed to be explosive and he has yet to break much of anything for big gains.
Question is - will we resign WanDale?
Another issue with Won'Dale is he is an outlier (in a bad way) in terms of height and arm length, so his catch radius is incredibly small, making it more difficult for QBs throwing to him
QuoteQuestion is - will we resign WanDale?
He is under contract for 1 more season. I could see a Slayton/Shepard type extension worked out. WR is the one non-ST position where our draftees seem to get 2nd and 3rd contracts.