For a duo who are frequently accused of being cheerleaders or mouthpieces of the NY Giants, this podcast/YouTube video was a bit out of character. Their criticism was of the constructive variety, but it was hard-hitting and mostly on-point
As the Giants' season approaches, Bob Papa and Carl Banks break down what needs to change as the team heads into the offseason. They discuss the importance of player development, making key adjustments on offense and defense, and identifying areas for improvement. The conversation highlights the need to maximize player potential, upgrade talent across the roster, and the critical role Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will play in steering the team toward success next season.
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00:00:00 - Introduction
00:00:57 - Reflecting on the 2024 Season
00:01:26 - Offensive Struggles and Mistakes
00:01:50 - Defensive Issues and Lack of Identity
00:03:52 - Need for Defensive Evolution
00:07:10 - Injuries and Talent Upgrades
00:07:32 - Shane Bowen
00:08:27 - Drafting and Roster Management Concerns
00:09:41 - Evaluating Offensive Line Draft Picks
00:10:37 - Defensive Player Performance and Scheme
00:11:25 - Coaching Adjustments and Player Development
00:12:01 - Quarterback Play and Offensive Strategy
00:18:10 - Comparing Backup Quarterbacks Across the League
00:20:25 - Coaching Accountability and Player Discipline
00:24:51 - Self-Evaluation for Coaches
00:30:54 - Expectations for Team Identity
00:32:19 - Importance of Player Development
00:35:01 - Coaching Philosophy and Accountability
00:39:23 - Final Thoughts on Team Direction
00:40:25 - Fan Reactions and Ownership Decisions
00:46:09 - Future Outlook
Unbelievable. You actually took the time to compose a list the topics covered. Thank you very much. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 08, 2025, 08:45:34 AMUnbelievable. You actually took the time to compose a list the topics covered. Thank you very much. Bob
I wish I could take credit, but it's actually included in some of the better Youtube content. In fact, on the YouTube page itself, there are hyperlinks on the time listing, so you can click on it, and it takes you right to the topic listed.
The only thing I did was listen to it twice this morning.
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 08, 2025, 08:45:34 AMUnbelievable. You actually took the time to compose a list the topics covered. Thank you very much. Bob
It's built into the video, Bob. If you look at the description then click more... it will expand the description and show the chapters and links.
Quote from: T200 on January 08, 2025, 08:57:25 AMIt's built into the video, Bob. If you look at the description then click more... it will expand the description and show the chapters and links.
Tim: Many thanks. I know a lot about computers but sometimes I'm completely "unaware" of my surroundings. lol
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 08, 2025, 09:04:11 AMTim: Many thanks. I know a lot about computers but sometimes I'm completely "unaware" of my surroundings. lol
If it makes you feel any better, Bob, this is a relatively new development (maybe over the past year or so) where they started putting time stamps in some descriptions (not all shows do this).
Anyone who thinks Banks is just a mouthpiece has not heard him on the radio broadcast of the games. He rips into them on a regular basis.
Quote from: coggs on January 08, 2025, 11:32:14 AMAnyone who thinks Banks is just a mouthpiece has not heard him on the radio broadcast of the games. He rips into them on a regular basis.
Obviously, you are not going to get the sort of blunt assessment you get from a true independent like Bobby Skinner, but I think Carl does a pretty good job being fair, given the constraints he works under. I think that limitation is offset, to a large extent, by the great in-the-building access the two enjoy.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2025, 09:48:23 AMIf it makes you feel any better, Bob, this is a relatively new development (maybe over the past year or so) where they started putting time stamps in some descriptions (not all shows do this).
Hi Rich
@MightyGiants .
They've had that technology in place for several years now. Back when I was looking for the Production Music used in NFL Films NY Giants Highlight Videos, YouTube could automatically identify the tune or, if they couldn't, you could put the placeholder in, copy the link and go to your Production Music Library forum (NOTE: just like this place but for Production Music only - yes, lots of NFL Films Music fanatics and folks trying to identify music from other libraries used by NFL Films).
It's a nice setup they have and convenient if you want to jump to a specific segment.
Peace!
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2025, 12:18:53 PMObviously, you are not going to get the sort of blunt assessment you get from a true independent like Bobby Skinner, but I think Carl does a pretty good job being fair, given the constraints he works under. I think that limitation is offset, to a large extent, by the great in-the-building access the two enjoy.
Carl, like myself, thought Daniel Jones could be decent. When it went off the rails this year, people went after him claiming he was a shill. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Fans need to understand, guys like Banks, Skinner, Papa, can like certain things they are doing and dislike certain things they are doing. I guess the Jones's debate was such a hot button issue that to some that is all that mattered.
Quote from: coggs on January 09, 2025, 07:50:49 AMCarl, like myself, thought Daniel Jones could be decent. When it went off the rails this year, people went after him claiming he was a shill. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Fans need to understand, guys like Banks, Skinner, Papa, can like certain things they are doing and dislike certain things they are doing. I guess the Jones's debate was such a hot button issue that to some that is all that mattered.
It was pretty easy to see from us non experts that Jones wasn't the answer. Doesn't give me confidence in Banks assessments for the future
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 08:15:02 AMIt was pretty easy to see from us non experts that Jones wasn't the answer. Doesn't give me confidence in Banks assessments for the future
This is where we are now as a society. Expertise and experience are no longer valued.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 08:19:56 AMThis is where we are now as a society. Expertise and experience are no longer valued.
Just because u play a sport doesn't mean u are an expert.
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 08:33:05 AMJust because u play a sport doesn't mean u are an expert.
As I said, we live in a society where expertise, education, and experience are no longer valued. Football is hardly the only field of endeavor where this is happening. We have seen this in public health, medicine, science, and economics (to name a few more).
Your comments only support the point I was making. I am curious: how much have you listened to Carl Banks to determine that you know more about football than he does?
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 08:33:05 AMJust because u play a sport doesn't mean u are an expert.
Just because you post on a message board, doesnt make you an expert. In 2018, I said over and over again I wanted Josh Allen if they were going QB or Quenten Nelson if not. Doesnt mean I am going to be right on every player I want/dont want.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 08:50:07 AMAs I said, we live in a society where expertise, education, and experience are no longer valued. Football is hardly the only field of endeavor where this is happening. We have seen this in public health, medicine, science, and economics (to name a few more).
Your comments only support the point I was making. I am curious: how much have you listened to Carl Banks to determine that you know more about football than he does?
Where the hell have I said I know more about football than he does?
Don't start attacking me bro
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 11:12:16 AMWhere the hell have I said I know more about football than he does?
Don't start attacking me bro
So how am I supposed to interpret your brag about how you were supposedly "right" about Daniel Jones and Banks was "wrong," and how can we trust him after that?
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 11:20:31 AMSo how am I supposed to interpret your brag about how you were supposedly "right" about Daniel Jones and Banks was "wrong," and how can we trust him after that?
I wasn't trying to say "me" personally...I was illustrating the fact so many here felt he was not the guy is all and it was painfully obvious for all to see - Banks was on opposite end of spectrum until a week or two before it was officially "over"....
I don't think we know more than Banks but I will say "collectively" here at BBH there are so many smart football people yourself included of course who are decent evaluators (as proven by on field action)...I use last years QBs as an example - so many here explained in great detail about Nix, Pennix, Maye, Daniels...I wasn't one of them but I learned a lot by reading their posts.
Quote from: Trench on January 09, 2025, 11:25:06 AMI wasn't trying to say "me" personally...I was illustrating the fact so many here felt he was not the guy is all and it was painfully obvious for all to see - Banks was on opposite end of spectrum until a week or two before it was officially "over"....
I don't think we know more than Banks but I will say "collectively" here at BBH there are so many smart football people yourself included of course who are decent evaluators (as proven by on field action)...I use last years QBs as an example - so many here explained in great detail about Nix, Pennix, Maye, Daniels...I wasn't one of them but I learned a lot by reading their posts.
First, thank you for the kind words, and I appreciate your knowledge of the game.
Here's the thing: no one in the NFL, especially if they are in the league long enough, is right 100% of the time. The NFL is more like poker than chess; there is a significant amount of luck and chance involved.
I remember on this very forum that it was declared that Jake Fromm had the "it" factor. I remember others saying that they saw something special in Trevor Lawerence. I remember others insisting the Giants needed to acquire Hendron Hooker, who can't even keep the second-string QB job in Detroit (the team signed Teddy Bridgewater last month to be the backup). I remember people being excited about Neal and Hernandez being drafted. Same with Banks and JMS being drafted. No one is perfect, no one.
So to use right or wrong (especially in isolation of an issue or two) is a poor measure of football expertise, in my opinion. It's like saying someone who buys a lottery ticket and wins is an expert on buying winning lottery tickets.
If you actually listen to the podcast/video that was posted, you will hear Carl Banks make many excellent points, and the points he shares with Daboll about team building and being a head coach are points I have heard made by the likes of Bill Belichick and others who have worked at the highest levels in the league. Carl Banks is a very intelligent man with a great deal of experience in the league. He could have easily pursued coaching if he was willing to work those sorts of hours. Carl also has the advantage of being in the building and talking to the coaches and players off the record.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 11:41:21 AMFirst, thank you for the kind words, and I appreciate your knowledge of the game.
Here's the thing: no one in the NFL, especially if they are in the league long enough, is right 100% of the time. The NFL is more like poker than chess; there is a significant amount of luck and chance involved.
I remember on this very forum that it was declared that Jake Fromm had the "it" factor. I remember others saying that they saw something special in Trevor Lawerence. I remember others insisting the Giants needed to acquire Hendron Hooker, who can't even keep the second-string QB job in Detroit (the team signed Teddy Bridgewater last month to be the backup). I remember people being excited about Neal and Hernandez being drafted. Same with Banks and JMS being drafted. No one is perfect, no one.
So to use right or wrong (especially in isolation of an issue or two) is a poor measure of football expertise, in my opinion. It's like saying someone who buys a lottery ticket and wins is an expert on buying winning lottery tickets.
If you actually listen to the podcast/video that was posted, you will hear Carl Banks make many excellent points, and the points he shares with Daboll about team building and being a head coach are points I have heard made by the likes of Bill Belichick and others who have worked at the highest levels in the league. Carl Banks is a very intelligent man with a great deal of experience in the league. He could have easily pursued coaching if he was willing to work those sorts of hours. Carl also has the advantage of being in the building and talking to the coaches and players off the record.
I admit I was on the Fromm "it" factor parade...same as I was on the Jones doesn't have "the it" factor. Tough business this football evaluation stuff. Studying Parcells, he was always able to find the special players who had it - especially when he was allowed to pick them himself. I marvel at how he made the Akers, Cowboys etc so good so fast.
Jake Fromm!...I forgot how wrong I was on that guy - all because I was sold on his college tapes
I'm one of those that was high on Jake Fromm from State Farm. Was I wrong on that.
Carl Banks makes great points, but there are times he is a soft on his questions. But he hit the nail on the head when he basically said Daboll lacks self awareness. And he needs to look at what he can do to improve.
My personal belief is that Daboll needs to let go of play calling hires Pederson as an OC. Actually I want Mara to hire his OC not Schoen or Daboll. Daboll can manage the game and over see player development.