The PSU - ND game is a good defensive battle. Few observations up to the half.
Drew Aller has not impressed me but neither has Ryan Leonard. Allar's touch passes wonble. They are not tight spirals.
Carter has nice bemd around edge and also a slow then super fast gear however I see him slowing down when running down the LOS. I dont see him at least in this game as having a non-stop motor that plays 100% to the whistle. His physicals sure look good.
The safeties on both teams close quickly to the LOS.
Penn State's running game is more effective. PSu runs this 1980s QB two handed pitch that looks like it will gain nothing but their RBs find creases that turn it into a 5 yard gain.
Would you draft Tyler Warren if he dropped to the second round for this team?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 08:58:53 PMWould you draft Tyler Warren if he dropped to the second round for this team?
I like him but I think we have greater needs than a TE for round 2.
He's not making it out of the first round. No chance.
And if by some miracle he did, he'd be a no brainer pick despite there being 6-7 positions that are much higher need.
He has one of the highest floors in the draft.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 08:58:53 PMWould you draft Tyler Warren if he dropped to the second round for this team?
Good question. You think he is going in the 1st at this point?
I think he probably would at this point.
I think he could one of those few TEs that really plays both part of the position well. Giants need all the help they can get on offense. He's a nice complement to Nabers in the passing game. Would have to see who else is available but I wouldn't be against it if they did.
I think Allar is showing why he stayed in school another year.
Penn St is winning the battles on both sides of the line. I think very highly of Abdul Carter but have to say there is a lot of good players on the front 7 for Penn St.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 08:58:53 PMWould you draft Tyler Warren if he dropped to the second round for this team?
Ed - another question you have to think about is how would you use Tyler Warren? I see him more around the LOS than as an intermediate/downfield threat. If that's what you want, Colston Loveland is a better TE.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 09, 2025, 09:17:05 PMI think Allar is showing why he stayed in school another year.
Penn St is winning the battles on both sides of the line. I think very highly of Abdul Carter but have to say there is a lot of good players on the front 7 for Penn St.
Agree about Allar.
Everyone has been talking about ND's D but Penn State's D has really showed up. The DC is mixing up pressure very well.
You can see how both defenses beat their previous opponents.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 09, 2025, 09:33:24 PMEd - another question you have to think about is how would you use Tyler Warren? I see him more around the LOS than as an intermediate/downfield threat. If that's what you want, Colston Loveland is a better TE.
Picking from the second round or moving up from the second, it comes down to deciding the drafting goals. He should definitely be the BPA in the second round. Drafting by position of greatest need fills holes quicker but misses happen. I would use him to his strengths. I don't think Schoen would pick him. He has two TE's on the Roster completing that position. If it were his first year as GM, he might make the pick. Which brings up another issue of a GM with a short rope.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 08:58:53 PMWould you draft Tyler Warren if he dropped to the second round for this team?
He's a top 16 prospect in my opinion this season. I think he can do a little bit of everything whether it's Los, out wide, and even full back.
Somehow he'll end up dropping and someone like San Fran will get him in the late 1st and he'll be an all pro.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 09, 2025, 09:11:40 PMHe's not making it out of the first round. No chance.
And if by some miracle he did, he'd be a no brainer pick despite there being 6-7 positions that are much higher need.
He has one of the highest floors in the draft.
At what point would you move up to get him.? I would give it consideration for a few slots but not give up a third to move up mid first. My guess is he's gone by 20-25.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 09, 2025, 09:54:06 PMHe's a top 16 prospect in my opinion this season. I think he can do a little bit of everything whether it's Los, out wide, and even full back.
Somehow he'll end up dropping and someone like San Fran will get him in the late 1st and he'll be an all pro.
Yes, he's that good.
I love the effort of both team's running backs. Running hard and physical.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 09, 2025, 10:23:25 PMI love the effort of both team's running backs. Running hard and physical.
I was just thinking the same thing. That third
Effort by Love was awesome. 17 TD, rushing this season. Both teams are well matched. Smashmouth Football.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 09:58:20 PMAt what point would you move up to get him.? I would give it consideration for a few slots but not give up a third to move up mid first. My guess is he's gone by 20-25.
I wouldn't move up to get him.
We have far too many holes to trade any picks, especially for a position that isn't a big need. I'd only take him by some miracle he fell to us.
I see him going 15-20.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 10:27:16 PMI was just thinking the same thing. That third
Effort by Love was awesome. 17 TD, rushing this season. Both teams are well matched. Smashmouth Football.
Just a great game to watch.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 09, 2025, 10:53:54 PMJust a great game to watch.
Enjoying this game a lot, Joe.
I have Singleton the 3rd best back right now as he's slowly moving up. If Hampton and Jeanty weren't such elite elite talents, Singleton would be RB1 in some past drafts.
Allar coming up small in a huge spot. Terrible decision and throw.
Feel like his only completions on the night were on big time defensive brekdowns where the guy was wide open with nobody near him.
Not a guy I can get behind as a draft pick.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 09, 2025, 11:09:41 PMAllar coming up small in a huge spot. Terrible decision and throw.
Feel like his only completions on the night were on big time defensive brekdowns where the guy was wide open with nobody near him.
Not a guy I can get behind as a draft pick.
I think we all agreed he needs another season. I felt bad for the kid. He's a tough son of a gun.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 09, 2025, 11:09:41 PMAllar coming up small in a huge spot. Terrible decision and throw.
Feel like his only completions on the night were on big time defensive brekdowns where the guy was wide open with nobody near him.
Not a guy I can get behind as a draft pick.
Yeah I've never been overly high on him, despite the measurables I've never seen IT from him.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 11:11:48 PMI think we all agreed he needs another season. I felt bad for the kid. He's a tough son of a gun.
ncaa is in the process of passing a new rule on the down low that would give all players a 5th year if they wanted it without the need for a waiver. >:( 2
I like Marcus Freeman.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 09, 2025, 11:13:38 PMncaa is in the process of passing a new rule on the down low that would give all players a 5th year if they wanted it without the need for a waiver. >:( 2
I'm actually agree with it. It makes them better prepared for the NFL and ultimately more kids survive and it makes for a better product.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 11:18:34 PMI'm actually agree with it. It makes them better prepared for the NFL and ultimately more kids survive and it makes for a better product.
I prefer qbs that have played 4 years for sure. Easier to see their development plus they have lived in experience that you can't replicate.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 09, 2025, 11:16:04 PMI like Marcus Freeman.
He's done a great job for sure. When the camera is on him, I never see him talking with anyone — his staff, players, refs. Just seems to stand there by himself. Really odd to watch.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 10, 2025, 06:31:11 AMHe's done a great job for sure. When the camera is on him, I never see him talking with anyone — his staff, players, refs. Just seems to stand there by himself. Really odd to watch.
I saw a snapshot of him turning and walking away from one of his coaches who was telling him something, and as he turned the coach followed him saying something and he kept walking. I think it had to do with the final kickoff to Penn.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 09, 2025, 11:13:38 PMncaa is in the process of passing a new rule on the down low that would give all players a 5th year if they wanted it without the need for a waiver. >:( 2
They passed a rule that said the JUCO years do not count against Eligibility.
Add 5 years of D1 eligibility to that and you will have 26 year old seniors.
That doesn't even count a redshirt year, a medical year and an Olympic exemption.
This is getting ridiculous.
IMO remove the JUCO rule and the 5th year rule.
Kids already get a redshirt year, that is 5 years in the college system.
Quote from: babywhales on January 10, 2025, 07:56:02 AMThey passed a rule that said the JUCO years do not count against Eligibility.
Add 5 years of D1 eligibility to that and you will have 26 year old seniors.
That doesn't even count a redshirt year, a medical year and an Olympic exemption.
This is getting ridiculous.
IMO remove the JUCO rule and the 5th year rule.
Kids already get a redshirt year, that is 5 years in the college system.
Chris,
Now that the players are paid, you essentially have two professional football leagues changing from their long cooperative history to more of a competitive situation. The only thing that the NFL can counter these moves by the colleges is to greatly increase the rookie's salary cap so that there is a financial incentive to play for the NFL rather than the college football league.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2025, 08:11:30 AMChris,
Now that the players are paid, you essentially have two professional football leagues changing from their long cooperative history to more of a competitive situation. The only thing that the NFL can counter these moves by the colleges is to greatly increase the rookie's salary cap so that there is a financial incentive to play for the NFL rather than the college football league.
The NIL rules are changing and the free for all days in these initial years are ending.
Just the 2 years added for covid are ridiculous. There are 8 year 26 and 27 year old NCAA D1 athletes, its a joke
Quote from: babywhales on January 10, 2025, 08:23:22 AMThe NIL rules are changing and the free for all days in these initial years are ending.
Just the 2 years added for covid are ridiculous. There are 8 year NCAA D1 athletes, its a joke
Chris,
These days, the idea that any college football player is a "student-athlete" is a joke. As I said, the college football system is just another professional football league.
The TV revenue is big bucks, and I don't see either league not doing everything in their power to maximize their income.
Quote from: babywhales on January 10, 2025, 08:23:22 AMThe NIL rules are changing and the free for all days in these initial years are ending.
Just the 2 years added for covid are ridiculous. There are 8 year 26 and 27 year old NCAA D1 athletes, its a joke
7 years of college! So now we have a bunch of John Blutarski's! All serious how do you spread out 4 years of college over 7 years? Isn't there a minimum of how many classes they must be enrolled in. With all these changes and waivers "College football" is becoming less and less about the reason people go to College.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 09, 2025, 11:09:41 PMAllar coming up small in a huge spot. Terrible decision and throw.
Feel like his only completions on the night were on big time defensive brekdowns where the guy was wide open with nobody near him.
Not a guy I can get behind as a draft pick.
He was facing an excellent passing defense and, according to
@PSUBeirut, without the best of support.
Disappointing, as it sounds like the door was shut on any possibility of a great playoff run showing he was a franchise QB prospect and he would change his mind and declare for the draft. Admittedly, that was a long shot, but in terms of QB, the Giants are in the sort of desperate situation where you hope for a long shot to pay off.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2025, 08:11:30 AMChris,
Now that the players are paid, you essentially have two professional football leagues changing from their long cooperative history to more of a competitive situation. The only thing that the NFL can counter these moves by the colleges is to greatly increase the rookie's salary cap so that there is a financial incentive to play for the NFL rather than the college football league.
I think the NFL will drop the 3 year requirement to 2 years pretty quickly now.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 10, 2025, 09:43:43 AMI think the NFL will drop the 3 year requirement to 2 years pretty quickly now.
That would be a natural response for sure.
Quote from: Philosophers on January 10, 2025, 10:23:57 AMThat would be a natural response for sure.
Many years ago, you saw the NFL vs the AFL. The way things are going we could see a similar situation with the NFL vs the NCAA
It will hurt the NFL is they become the league with players in their late 20s and 30s and the NCAA has the players when they are young and in their primes
Not too long ago players never came out with less than 4 years in college and 5 years was common. Personally, I think 23 and 24 year old rookies will help the NFL as they may get more polished NFL ready players as opposed to the Amobi Okoye's that are out of the league relatively quickly.
I get the opinions of players playing 6 or 7 years, but I don't see why the NFL would now consider letting players in younger.
We're fast reaching the point with Allar that the parallels to DJ are too much to ignore.
How many excuses over how many years can be made? How many glimpses of greatnesses truly matter if he continues to fall short in big moments? How long can we blame his supporting cast instead of asking why he hasn't been able to elevate his team?
Allar and DJ are mirror images in many respects. And having just gone through 6 years of spinning our wheels while we waited for DJ to figure it out, I have no interest in a prospect with an identical trajectory.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 10, 2025, 10:42:23 AMWe're fast reaching the point with Allar that the parallels to DJ are too much to ignore.
How many excuses over how many years can be made? How many glimpses of greatnesses truly matter if he continues to fall short in big moments? How long can we blame his supporting cast instead of asking why he hasn't been able to elevate his team?
Allar and DJ are mirror images in many respects. And having just gone through 6 years of spinning our wheels while we waited for DJ to figure it out, I have no interest in a prospect with an identical trajectory.
I am a Penn St fan and do not want Allar on the Giants. If he takes big steps next year I will reassess but right now it's a hard no for me. His WR aren't great but he has a great TE, very good RBs and probably the OL I have seen at Penn St in Franklins tenure. The INT he threw at the end of the game had nothing to do with any player other than Allar. He made a poor choice and did the one thing he couldn't do in that situation.
I know there are questions about offensive coaching at Penn State and maybe they are warranted, but I just can't get around how he doesn't look naturally comfortable as a QB. He missed several easy throws last night (which probably wouldn't have mattered without that INT) and has done that all year.
I think people get very excited about the traditional prototype body and strong arm. I get it, those things are great to have.
Bottom line, if you swap QBs last night Penn St wins by 2 or more scores.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 10, 2025, 10:55:20 AMI am a Penn St fan and do not want Allar on the Giants. If he takes big steps next year I will reassess but right now it's a hard no for me. His WR aren't great but he has a great TE, very good RBs and probably the OL I have seen at Penn St in Franklins tenure. The INT he threw at the end of the game had nothing to do with any player other than Allar. He made a poor choice and did the one thing he couldn't do in that situation.
I know there are questions about offensive coaching at Penn State and maybe they are warranted, but I just can't get around how he doesn't look naturally comfortable as a QB. He missed several easy throws last night (which probably wouldn't have mattered without that INT) and has done that all year.
I think people get very excited about the traditional prototype body and strong arm. I get it, those things are great to have.
Bottom line, if you swap QBs last night Penn St wins by 2 or more scores.
Your words speak volumes. Pay attention to fanbases like you as a Penn St fan.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 09, 2025, 11:09:41 PMAllar coming up small in a huge spot. Terrible decision and throw.
Feel like his only completions on the night were on big time defensive brekdowns where the guy was wide open with nobody near him.
Not a guy I can get behind as a draft pick.
DB: You may disagree, but IMO the INT wasn't the key spot in the game where Allar came up small.
The game was essentially "lost" when Allar's off-target (low and away) 3-yard throw to a wide-open receiver (RB) causing Penn State to have to settle for a field goal in the first quarter. Think about how different the game would have been if they had gone up 14-0.
It was a learning experience for a kid who really hasn't played a lot of QB in his young life (he's only 20 years old and played some other position during his early years in football). He has already learned that you've got to be careful to avoid tensing up when a golden opportunity arises and don't aim the ball. He has also learned not to get excited and overthrow a wide-open man. What he learned last night was DON'T RELAX in the process of remaining calm. You've probably never heard of that one, but it is "a thing" in playing QB. In that situation, the rules are: concentrate on your form and get your feet in the right place. There was plenty of time. He just didn't do it.
Bob
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 10, 2025, 10:55:20 AMI am a Penn St fan and do not want Allar on the Giants. If he takes big steps next year I will reassess but right now it's a hard no for me. His WR aren't great but he has a great TE, very good RBs and probably the OL I have seen at Penn St in Franklins tenure. The INT he threw at the end of the game had nothing to do with any player other than Allar. He made a poor choice and did the one thing he couldn't do in that situation.
I know there are questions about offensive coaching at Penn State and maybe they are warranted, but I just can't get around how he doesn't look naturally comfortable as a QB. He missed several easy throws last night (which probably wouldn't have mattered without that INT) and has done that all year.
I think people get very excited about the traditional prototype body and strong arm. I get it, those things are great to have.
Bottom line, if you swap QBs last night Penn St wins by 2 or more scores.
uconn: I can agree with almost everything you wrote, but see my post to
@DaveBrown74 right above this post. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 10, 2025, 12:23:43 PMuconn: I can agree with almost everything you wrote, but see my post to @DaveBrown74 right above this post. Bob
Bob, You're not wrong. If they had capitalized on those early possessions that last 4 minutes would have been a very difference scenario. It was a tough loss and I thought overall a great game to watch. Both teams made some plays to change momentum when needed and looked the part.
They were running the ball so well early that it got me thinking they might run over ND in the 2nd half. Credit to ND for adjusting and making the plays when needed.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 10, 2025, 12:38:22 PMBob, You're not wrong. If they had capitalized on those early possessions that last 4 minutes would have been a very difference scenario. It was a tough loss and I thought overall a great game to watch. Both teams made some plays to change momentum when needed and looked the part.
They were running the ball so well early that it got me thinking they might run over ND in the 2nd half. Credit to ND for adjusting and making the plays when needed.
uconn: You laid your finger on it at the end. ND deserved to win IMO because their halftime adjustments were superior to those (if any) made by PSU. I think when you start off strong as Penn State did, there is a tendency to avoid making a lot of changes at halftime, which as I already said made scoring a touchdown instead of a field goal in the first quarter of extra importance. Bob
Also a Penn St fan and I'm amazed that PSU got as far as they did with such mediocre QB play.
I see I am not the only one who saw Daniel Jones when I watched Drew Aller yesterday. A QB who can't seem to find his wide receivers and makes poor decisions in big spots.
Besides the poor throw that
@Bob In PA mentioned, he made another horrible decision on the pass to Warren that was intercepted in the ez. DPI saved him but there were 3 ND players in the neighborhood
Quote from: TDToomer on January 10, 2025, 04:20:50 PMI see I am not the only one who saw Daniel Jones when I watched Drew Aller yesterday. A QB who can't seem to find his wide receivers and makes poor decisions in big spots.
I remember PSU QB Christian Hackenberg from a decade or so ago. People fell in love with him because he "looked the part", "had all the tools", and "was a tough kid."
All of those descriptors may have been true, but there was one problem: he simply wasn't very good. He ended up on the Jets and was out of the league in a few years.
I certainly think Allar is better than Hackenberg, but the way fans seem to take to him reminds me a little bit of Hackenberg.
OSU vs Texas is a good one.
TreVeon Henderson is the truly modern NFL RB with his ability to catch passes then run with it.
Texas finally gets on board on a great RB pass route then Henderson breaks Texas back a minute later with a huge TD. Momentum going into the half - OSU
Ewers is not a guy. I thought they should have started Arch the past couple games.
Terrible call by Sarkesian on 2nd down. Run the ball straight ahead from the 1. What happened to leaping over the LOS? Not quite equivalent to Pete Carrol not giving it to Beast Mode, but it's on the list.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 10, 2025, 04:20:50 PMI see I am not the only one who saw Daniel Jones when I watched Drew Aller yesterday. A QB who can't seem to find his wide receivers and makes poor decisions in big spots.
TD: Of the 12 teams that made the tournament, Penn State's WR's (as a group) are by far the least talented. If you add their high-first-round TE into the equation, they had "enough" ammo to compete, which they did, and as a group they did ok. But as you know, it's easy to take one guy away. That's all Penn State had, and Notre Dame took him away. None of the WR's was able to step up. In that sense, it reminded me of what the Giants did to the Vikings in their one-and-only recent victorious playoff game. Bob
Jack Sawyer!!
Would look great in Giants Blue. Round 2?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: TDToomer on January 10, 2025, 04:20:50 PMI see I am not the only one who saw Daniel Jones when I watched Drew Aller yesterday. A QB who can't seem to find his wide receivers and makes poor decisions in big spots.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 11, 2025, 09:34:00 AMJack Sawyer!!
Would look great in Giants Blue. Round 2?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
OSU's DL players have all been heralded however Jack Sawyer is the one who for the past 3 games has shown up to make play after play. I am with you on him as a mid-round pick. I lime his motor. Will be curious how he tests at the Combine.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 10, 2025, 04:20:50 PMI see I am not the only one who saw Daniel Jones when I watched Drew Aller yesterday. A QB who can't seem to find his wide receivers and makes poor decisions in big spots.
Aller is 20 years old and did not have quality WRs. That said, I saw Eli play with scrubs at Ole Miss & do some damage against far better teams. One would hope that Aller would get far better coaching going forward. And, hopefully, he wouldn't get stuck with a Garrett (no thanks to the nonmeddling Mara) to coach the risk taking out of him.
Quote from: nb587 on January 11, 2025, 09:52:08 AMAller is 20 years old and did not have quality WRs. That said, I saw Eli play with scrubs at Ole Miss & do some damage against far better teams. One would hope that Aller would get far better coaching going forward. And, hopefully, he wouldn't get stuck with a Garrett (no thanks to the nonmeddling Mara) to coach the risk taking out of him.
Allar's overall performance in 2024 was better than 2023, so that is a positive. Maybe he can raise his game again next year and end up a bona fide top 3 overall type prospect.
Fair point that he's still just 20. Big difference between that and someone like Kenny Pickett who played for five years, came out in his mid 20s, and was a non-entity his entire college career until his final season, when he was 2-4 years older than most kids he was playing against.
We'll see how he does next year.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 11, 2025, 10:26:05 AMAllar's overall performance in 2024 was better than 2023, so that is a positive. Maybe he can raise his game again next year and end up a bona fide top 3 overall type prospect.
Fair point that he's still just 20. Big difference between that and someone like Kenny Pickett who played for five years, came out in his mid 20s, and was a non-entity his entire college career until his final season, when he was 2-4 years older than most kids he was playing against.
We'll see how he does next year.
DB: Even more worthy of note is the fact that he "came to be" a QB a lot later in life than guys like the Mannings (for example) almost all of whom started from their pee-wee days playing QB. He still doesn't have the mindset.
Importantly, he's well aware of his shortcomings. That is why he elected to come back. There's no need to "convince" him that he hasn't reached his achievable full college potential. He already knows it, and he added a piece to his "education" against Notre Dame. I'm hoping Penn State can grab a WR from the portal, because what they have currently in the way of returning WR's is crap, and they're losing the tight end to the NFL, so they're basically desperate.
If Allar can take what Penn State will have remaining at the skill positions and mold it next year into a winning team, it will be a miracle.
Bob