https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1879151304582234610 (https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1879151304582234610)
Minny picks up Jones and Darnold's play declines. :suspious: :surprise: Strange but true.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 09:10:39 AMMinny picks up Jones and Darnold's play declines. :suspious: :surprise: Strange but true.
Only in the last 2 games vs playoff teams on the road. Darnold was rolling for a month and a half with Jones as the 4th QB.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 14, 2025, 09:14:55 AMOnly in the last 2 games vs playoff teams on the road. Darnold was rolling for a month and a half with Jones as the 4th QB.
The Dimes Effect needed a little time to marinade ;) :laugh:
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 09:10:39 AMMinny picks up Jones and Darnold's play declines. :suspious: :surprise: Strange but true.
When the pressure ratcheted up, and the games become important (the Lions' game determined bye week VS wildcard team, and of course, the loser goes home playoff game.
It wasn't an ideal look for Darnold. I am not sure how you are connecting this to Daniel Jones being on the roster for the last two months, but okay.
As Dan said, it's good news/bad news. The good news is Darnold's last two games increased the odds of him being available and lowered his price, the bad news is that Darnold came up small when things mattered. Worse, he did that with some of the best QB support in the league.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 09:18:00 AMThe Dimes Effect needed a little time to marinade ;) :laugh:
Jones has defeated the Vikings twice in the playoffs /sarcasm/
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 09:52:57 AMWhen the pressure ratcheted up, and the games become important (the Lions' game determined bye week VS wildcard team, and of course, the loser goes home playoff game.
It wasn't an ideal look for Darnold. I am not sure how you are connecting this to Daniel Jones being on the roster for the last two months, but okay.
As Dan said, it's good news/bad news. The good news is Darnold's last two games increased the odds of him being available and lowered his price, the bad news is that Darnold came up small when things mattered. Worse, he did that with some of the best QB support in the league.
The connection, as
@Ed Vette mentioned previously, is that Finkel is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkel. Jones is Darnold with legs.
The Jones Effect was a half-hearted joke.
Darnold's season and decline (reversion to his typical performance) is rightfully viewed with some sense of caution since it's only been one season. Ironically, Jones's similar season was enough for many of you to declare that he has arrived.
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 14, 2025, 10:14:10 AMJones has defeated the Vikings twice in the playoffs /sarcasm/
Insider threat :P :P
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 10:19:29 AMThe connection, as @Ed Vette mentioned previously, is that Finkel is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkel. Jones is Darnold with legs.
The Jones Effect was a half-hearted joke.
Darnold's season and decline (reversion to his typical performance) is rightfully viewed with some sense of caution since it's only been one season. Ironically, Jones's similar season was enough for many of you to declare that he has arrived.
I am not sure you can compare the two seasons. DJ came up big when he needed to defeat the Colts to ensure the team made the playoffs and came up big in an away game against the Vikings. Plus, DJ accomplished what he did with below-average support. That seems to be quite different than what Darnold did. Darnold put up flashy stats while enjoying some of the best QB support in the league and then crashed and burned when things mattered.
It's funny how so many people complained about all the DJ talk, and now that he isn't on the team, there are still more posts about him than any Giants-related topic.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 10:25:03 AMI am not sure you can compare the two seasons. DJ came up big when he needed to defeat the Colts to ensure the team made the playoffs and came up big in an away game against the Vikings. Plus, DJ accomplished what he did with below-average support. That seems to be quite different than what Darnold did. Darnold put up flashy stats while enjoying some of the best QB support in the league and then crashed and burned when things mattered.
It's funny how so many people complained about all the DJ talk, and now that he isn't on the team, there are still more posts about him than any Giants-related topic.
If that's how you see it...
As always, it's a two-way street. You're pushing back on the talk of a former player but your defense of a former player continues.
QBs need support to be good, meanwhile QBs are no good because they have the best support.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 10:28:09 AMIf that's how you see it...
As always, it's a two-way street. You're pushing back on the talk of a former player but your defense of a former player continues.
What I "see" is factually correct. DJ had objectively good games against the Colts and playoff Vikings, while Darnold had poor games against the Lions and the Rams
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 14, 2025, 10:32:38 AMQBs need support to be good, meanwhile QBs are no good because they have the best support.
My brain hurts
In an effort to ease the pain your brain is suffering, I will attempt to explain. You are correct; support greatly impacts a QB's performance. When judging a QB's abilities, you need to account for support. If a QB overlays their support, that's a good indication of a QB who is above average. If they underplay their support (which he did with his QB rating/QBR of 55.5/17.4 and 77.6/13.6 against the Lions and Rams, respectively)
Hopefully, that explanation eased your pain and suffering. If you have further questions, I would be happy to answer :greetings:
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 10:20:11 AMInsider threat :P :P
(https://i.imgflip.com/9gn8yq.jpg)
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 10:32:43 AMWhat I "see" is factually correct. DJ had objectively good games against the Colts and playoff Vikings, while Darnold had poor games against the Lions and the Rams
The support DJ had against the Colts and Vikings vanished when they played the Eagles the following week?
How the tables turn!
I'm impressed that Kevin O'Connell gets so much out of these guys. Darnold this year, Cousins in the past. When Cousins went down? The backup QBs weren't awful.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 10:54:16 AMThe support DJ had against the Colts and Vikings vanished when they played the Eagles the following week?
It's a mixed bag, according to PFF. DJ had good pass blocking in the Colts game but poor blocking in the Vikings game, but okay (not as good as the Colts, but solid) in the Eagles game. Receiving, on the other hand, was good in the Colts and Vikings game but worse in the Eagles game.
I will say this: I have been doing some studying on PFF grades and QB success. I have seen a stronger correlation between receiving and the QB playing well than I have pass protection. In fact, when I started to look at QBs who are not considered elite, but they played well, I saw receiving, more so than protection, has been the attribute that boosts them.
I think that makes sense; if a QB is throwing quality receivers with good catch radius, gets open quickly and consistently, and has low drop rates, they will have more of an advantage than a protect that gives the QB maybe an extra couple of downs enough time to throw or perhaps a couple of downs with extra time. I am beginning to see some of Daniel Jeremiah's points about elite O-line not being as important as no weak links. Perhaps protect, for the most part, is a binary is the QB being protected or is he not? While receiving (WRs, TEs, and RBs) can create more opportunities for the QB or bail them out on poor throws more.
Quote from: Hadron on January 14, 2025, 11:01:06 AMHow the tables turn!
Im impressed that Kevin O'Connell gets so much out of these guys. Darnold this year, Cousins in the past. When Cousins went down? The backup QBs weren't awful.
The Vikings have an outstanding QB support system. They have an excellent QB coaching and scheme. They have a pretty good O-line and some of the best receivers in the league. I suspect the issue with Darnold is that he never really handled pressure well with the Jets, which continues to be an issue with him.
Quote from: Hadron on January 14, 2025, 11:01:06 AMHow the tables turn!
I'm impressed that Kevin O'Connell gets so much out of these guys. Darnold this year, Cousins in the past. When Cousins went down? The backup QBs weren't awful.
Huh? Cousins output in Wash was virtually identical to Minn; he was also a Pro Bowler under O'Connell's predecessor in Minn. Last year, you witnessed a pretty steep decline under O'Connell, which continued this year. It appears father-time has tackled Cousins.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 11:08:22 AMIt's a mixed bag, according to PFF. DJ had good pass blocking in the Colts game but poor blocking in the Vikings game, but okay (not as good as the Colts, but solid) in the Eagles game. Receiving, on the other hand, was good in the Colts and Vikings game but worse in the Eagles game.
I will say this: I have been doing some studying on PFF grades and QB success. I have seen a stronger correlation between receiving and the QB playing well than I have pass protection. In fact, when I started to look at QBs who are not considered elite, but they played well, I saw receiving, more so than protection, has been the attribute that boosts them.
I think that makes sense; if a QB is throwing quality receivers with good catch radius, gets open quickly and consistently, and has low drop rates, they will have more of an advantage than a protect that gives the QB maybe an extra couple of downs enough time to throw or perhaps a couple of downs with extra time. I am beginning to see some of Daniel Jeremiah's points about elite O-line not being as important as no weak links. Perhaps protect, for the most part, is a binary is the QB being protected or is he not? While receiving (WRs, TEs, and RBs) can create more opportunities for the QB or bail them out on poor throws more.
I know you have a soft spot for PFF but I like watching the games and looking beyond the numbers.
Quote from: kingm56 on January 14, 2025, 11:18:09 AMHuh? Cousins output in Wash was virtually identical to Minn; he was also a Pro Bowler under O'Connell's predecessor in Minn. Last year, you witnessed a pretty steep decline under O'Connell, which continued this year. I appears father-time has tackled Cousins.
Yup, anywhere from the mid-30s to around 40 (with a few rare outliers playing well in their 40s).
Once the arm starts to go, the QB will hold on to the ball longer because they don't trust they can throw to the same small windows (per Phil Simms) and that holding on to the ball longer generates more pressure and less success.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 11:23:47 AMI know you have a soft spot for PFF but I like watching the games and looking beyond the numbers.
Funny, you could have said, "I know you have a passion for analytics, but I don't share that passion"
You could have even mentioned that I have repeatedly stated when it comes to QBs I prefer a three-pronged approach of QB Rating, QBR, and PFF grade). Hell, I have even dabbled in measures like EPA per throw and other metrics, some of my own inventions.
There is nothing wrong with just watching the games and going by what you see, I do so as well. In the end, I think a combination of scouting and analytics produces the most accurate results.
Still, it's nice to see my nuanced and carefully considered views summed up as "I know you have a soft spot for PFF"
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 11:32:14 AMFunny, you could have said, "I know you have a passion for analytics, but I don't share that passion"
You could have even mentioned that I have repeatedly stated when it comes to QBs I prefer a three-pronged approach of QB Rating, QBR, and PFF grade). Hell, I have even dabbled in measures like EPA per throw and other metrics, some of my own inventions.
There is nothing wrong with just watching the games and going by what you see, I do so as well. In the end, I think a combination of scouting and analytics produces the most accurate results.
Still, it's nice to see my nuanced and carefully considered views summed up as "I know you have a soft spot for PFF"
You could also not take it as a dig. It certainly wasn't meant to be. :ok:
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 10:25:03 AMI am not sure you can compare the two seasons. DJ came up big when he needed to defeat the Colts to ensure the team made the playoffs and came up big in an away game against the Vikings. Plus, DJ accomplished what he did with below-average support. That seems to be quite different than what Darnold did. Darnold put up flashy stats while enjoying some of the best QB support in the league and then crashed and burned when things mattered.
It's funny how so many people complained about all the DJ talk, and now that he isn't on the team, there are still more posts about him than any Giants-related topic.
It's old. Can we move on, please?
Peace.
Since I have NFL premium plus, I was able to rewatch the Vikings vs Rams game.
Here are my thoughts on Darnold.
He was good in the 1st quarter; I think he completed his first 7 passes.
However, quarters two through four, the Rams began to get pressure on him, and he became unrattled as they got inside his head.
He held on to the ball too long a few times and had some inerrant throws and also an interception.
Because of the Giants offensive line being so bad, I do not recommend signing Darnold in the offseason as I think the pressure playing in NY combined with a bad O line is going to expose him. I don't think he will put up the same numbers here as he did in Minnesota, in fact it could be a hard fail.
Secondly, if the Vikings franchise him, then that would be the best for both sides. He'd get a chance to repeat his solid performance in 2025 and then try to sign with a team that has a good O line to protect him.
Unfortunately, that is not with the Giants, and I agree with the other posters who have recommended they either draft a QB this year, or sign a cheap bridge gap QB now, and draft their next QB in 2026.
Even though I like Darnold I don't think signing him to the Giants is a good move.
However, that is just my opinion.