Instead of lengthy discussions on which QB the Giants should draft whether it be at number 3 or in the second round . We might have no choice as 29 other teams might have a say in it, Shouldn't we focus on a FA QB , because we desperately need one.
Any thoughts of choices ?
Funny you should mention this. This morning, I was working on a project of researching free-agent QBs. I have been working on first breaking them down into categories. My working categories and who are in each category
I will start with Sam Darnold because I don't know what category to put him in. He is in his 20s had an excellent season but flamed out in the last two games.
My next category is former 1st rounders still in their 20s who might have at least the potential to play better
Zach Wilson
Trey Lance
Justin Fields
Mac Jones
Daniel Jones
My next group is former 1st rounders in their early 30s. I think the best case is you get what you get.
Marcus Mariota
Jameis Winston
Carson Wentz
Teddy Bridgewater
The next category is aging talent
Andy Dalton
Joe Flacco
Russell Wilson
Finally, there are guys who have been starters for a good number of games
Jacoby Brissett
Jimmy Garoppolo
Case Keenum
Cooper Rush
Drew Lock
There are misc you can see in the master list of free agents QBs
https://overthecap.com/free-agency
You can filter by QBs
There are 34 UFA QBs out there. They all are meh, except Darnold. Then there's the Fields and Daltons/Brissets level. Then Lock and the rest. Still, all these know-it-all Bloggers have the Giants making a deal for Cousins. God forbid.
They will draft a QB somewhere. I think they jump for Dart and Co., and then one of these FA guys.
I don't like any of the free agent QB's who are available. Why not? Because they are available.
That's not as "Groucho Marx" as it sounds. Most years, there's a better-than-half-decent guy whose contract is up and there's at least some doubt about whether his current team might want to move on, or maybe the QB himself wants to move on (for whatever reason).
This year, other than maybe Wilson from Denver, I don't see anyone young enough or good enough to waste any time on, and Wilson will IMO definitely NOT be interested in coming to the East Coast. Only Kirk Cousins, who is likely to become a free agent because the Falcons owe him $10M unless he's cut, interests me, and if he knows what's good for him (and IMO he does) he won't come to the Giants because our offensive line is still unsettled. Maybe the Jets are interested in him. At least their OL is a bit better than half-decent.
Bob
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 18, 2025, 09:51:49 AMThere are 34 UFA QBs out there. They all are meh, except Darnold. Then there's the Fields and Daltons/Brissets level. Then Lock and the rest. Still, all these know-it-all Bloggers have the Giants making a deal for Cousins. God forbid.
They will draft a QB somewhere. I think they jump for Dart and Co., and then one of these FA guys.
Ed: Finally, we differ (a bit) on something relating to QB's. See my note posted shortly after yours. Bob
My choice would Marcus Mariota as a bridge to a latter Round pick of Jaxson Dart. There also are rumors that Jerrah and his Cows are targeting Mariota as a QB2 backup to Prescott. Quien sabe?
Cheers!
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 18, 2025, 09:55:26 AMI don't like any of the free agent QB's who are available. Why not? Because they are available.
That's not as "Groucho Marx" as it sounds. Most years, there's a better-than-half-decent guy whose contract is up and there's at least some doubt about whether his current team might want to move on, or maybe the QB himself wants to move on (for whatever reason).
This year, other than maybe Wilson from Denver, I don't see anyone young enough or good enough to waste any time on, and Wilson will IMO definitely NOT be interested in coming to the East Coast. Only Kirk Cousins, who is likely to become a free agent because the Falcons owe him $10M unless he's cut, interests me, and if he knows what's good for him (and IMO he does) he won't come to the Giants because our offensive line is still unsettled. Maybe the Jets are interested in him. At least their OL is a bit better than half-decent.
Bob
I might take a shot with Fields, only 25, Wentz , and Brisset
Trey Lance
Mariota
Bridgewater
Dalton
Brissett
Guys I would take a flier on.
AI can be a quick and effective search tool. I did searches on why each of the under 30 first-round QBs failed. I included Daniel Jones in the list so you can get a sense of the quality of the answers provided by AI (since everyone has strong opinions on why Daniel Jones failed)AI Overview
Zach Wilson is considered a "failure" primarily due to inconsistent play, poor decision-making under pressure, mechanical flaws in his throwing motion, and concerns about his ability to read defenses, which were exacerbated by being thrown into a starting role too quickly in the NFL, with many analysts placing a significant portion of the blame on the New York Jets organization for not adequately developing him.
Key points about Wilson's struggles:College competition level:
Some argue that Wilson played against weaker competition in college at BYU, which may not have prepared him for the complexities of NFL defenses.
Mechanical issues:Experts point to inconsistencies in his throwing mechanics, particularly with his lower body, which led to inaccurate throws.
Decision-making under pressure:
Wilson often struggled to make quick, sound decisions when pressured, leading to risky throws or interceptions.
Lack of development:Critics say the Jets organization did not provide adequate support and coaching to help Wilson address his flaws, forcing him to play too early in his career.
Poor pocket presence:Wilson sometimes struggled to stay calm in the pocket and would scramble too quickly, limiting his option
Trey Lance's struggles in the NFL so far can be attributed to a combination of factors that reflect both circumstances and challenges specific to his development. Here's a breakdown:
1.
Limited College Experience- Small sample size: Lance played only 17 college games at North Dakota State, an FCS school. While he was dominant, the level of competition wasn't as high as at FBS programs, leaving scouts with questions about how his skills would translate to the NFL.
- COVID-19 impact: His final college season was essentially wiped out due to the pandemic, further limiting his reps and development.
2.
Injuries- Lance suffered multiple injuries early in his NFL career, including a fractured ankle in 2022, which kept him off the field for extended periods. These injuries hindered his ability to gain valuable in-game experience and rhythm.
- Injuries also created opportunities for other quarterbacks on the roster (e.g., Jimmy Garoppolo, Brock Purdy) to outperform him or solidify their roles.
3.
Lack of Game Reps- Lance entered the league with raw talent but needed significant development, particularly in his mechanics, decision-making, and ability to read NFL defenses.
- The 49ers' quarterback room was crowded, and Lance didn't get consistent playing time to grow. His limited starts made it difficult for him to establish himself as a reliable option.
4.
System Fit and Team Expectations- The 49ers are a win-now team with a strong roster, particularly on defense and skill positions. This meant there was less patience for Lance to go through growing pains when other quarterbacks like Garoppolo or Purdy could step in and manage games effectively.
- Kyle Shanahan's system emphasizes quick decision-making and accuracy, areas where Lance was less polished compared to other quarterbacks on the roster.
5.
Competition and Pressure- Brock Purdy, a late-round pick, performed exceptionally well when given the chance, taking over the starting job and leading the team deep into the playoffs. This made it harder for Lance to regain trust or a meaningful role.
- The expectations surrounding Lance as a high first-round pick (traded up to acquire him) created pressure to deliver quickly, which may have compounded his struggles.
6.
Developmental Challenges- Critics have noted that Lance's throwing mechanics, footwork, and consistency needed significant refinement. Limited practice reps and in-game opportunities slowed his ability to make those adjustments.
ConclusionTrey Lance's "failure" so far isn't solely his fault but a combination of bad luck, limited opportunities, and the high-stakes nature of his environment. He remains a talented player with potential, but his development will depend on finding the right situation where he can grow without immediate pressure to perform at a high level.
Justin Fields is often considered to have "failed" in Chicago primarily due to a combination of factors including a lack of consistent offensive line protection, limited receiving weapons, coaching instability, and his own struggles with accuracy and decision-making in the pocket, leading to a lack of significant passing yardage and inconsistent overall performance despite his strong rushing ability; many analysts argue that the Bears organization largely failed to properly support Fields' development as a quarterback, rather than it being solely his fault.
Key points about Fields' perceived "failure":Poor Offensive Line:Fields often faced significant pressure in the pocket due to a weak offensive line, forcing him to rely heavily on scrambling and limiting his ability to make accurate throws downfield.
Limited Receiving Options:The Bears struggled to provide Fields with consistent and reliable wide receiver talent, hindering his passing game.
Coaching Instability:Multiple coaching changes during Fields' tenure in Chicago created inconsistency and hindered his development.
Decision-Making Issues:While a strong runner, Fields sometimes made questionable decisions in the pocket, leading to interceptions and sacks.
Lack of Passing Progression:Despite his athleticism, Fields did not show significant improvement in his passing accuracy and yardage over time, which is crucial for a successful NFL quarterback.
Important to note:Recent Development:
While Fields was traded from the Bears, some argue that with a better supporting cast and continued development, he could still become a successful NFL quarterback.
Shared Responsibility:Many analysts believe that the blame for Fields' struggles in Chicago lies with both the organization's shortcomings and his own areas needing improvement.
Mac Jones' struggles in the NFL can be attributed to a mix of systemic, situational, and personal factors that have hindered his development and performance. Here's a detailed look at the reasons behind his challenges:
1.
Coaching and Offensive Scheme- Lack of consistency: Jones had significant success in his rookie year under offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, who tailored the offense to his strengths. However, McDaniels' departure in 2022 led to a steep decline in offensive structure.
- Unqualified offensive staff: The Patriots controversially assigned offensive play-calling duties to Matt Patricia (a defensive coach) and Joe Judge (a special teams coach). This led to a lack of creativity, disjointed game planning, and poor player development.
- Constant changes: Inconsistency in coaching staff and scheme changes have made it difficult for Jones to settle into a system and build confidence.
2.
Offensive Line Struggles- The Patriots' offensive line has been inconsistent, often exposing Jones to heavy pressure. This has forced rushed decisions, reduced his ability to scan the field, and contributed to poor performance under duress.
- The lack of time in the pocket has exacerbated his weaknesses, such as mobility and escapability.
3.
Limited Supporting Cast- Lack of weapons: The Patriots have not surrounded Jones with top-tier offensive talent. While players like Jakobi Meyers and Hunter Henry are solid, they lack elite playmakers at wide receiver and running back, limiting the offense's explosiveness.
- Comparisons to peers: Many of Jones' contemporaries (e.g., Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence) are supported by stronger rosters with Pro Bowl-caliber weapons.
4.
Physical and Athletic Limitations- Jones is not an elite athlete and lacks the mobility or escapability of modern dual-threat quarterbacks. His reliance on quick decision-making and accuracy means he needs a strong supporting cast and structured offense to thrive.
- When faced with adversity, such as poor protection or coverage mismatches, his lack of elite arm strength or improvisational ability becomes more apparent.
5.
Regression in Decision-Making- In his rookie season, Jones displayed strong decision-making and accuracy, but as defenses adapted and the Patriots' offense became more predictable, his efficiency declined.
- Forced throws, hesitation in the pocket, and turnovers have become more frequent, eroding trust in his ability to manage games effectively.
6.
Pressure and Expectations- Being a first-round pick for a team with the legacy of Tom Brady created immense expectations for Jones. Comparisons to Brady, even if unfair, added pressure to perform at a high level early in his career.
- The Patriots' lack of patience and quick shifts in focus have limited his ability to overcome these challenges and grow.
7.
Leadership and Locker Room Dynamics- Reports suggest that Jones has occasionally clashed with the coaching staff, particularly during the chaotic 2022 season. These issues may have contributed to a lack of trust between Jones and the team.
- Questionable body language and frustration on the field have drawn criticism, raising concerns about his leadership during tough stretches.
ConclusionMac Jones' struggles are a result of an unfavorable combination of poor coaching decisions, a lack of talent around him, and his own limitations as a player. While his rookie success showed he can be effective in the right system, the Patriots have failed to provide stability and support, making it difficult for him to develop. Jones still has potential but may need a fresh start or a more stable environment to reach his ceiling.
Daniel Jones' struggles in the NFL can be attributed to a combination of factors that include his environment, his skill set, and the expectations placed upon him. Here's an in-depth breakdown of why Daniel Jones has had challenges:
1. Inconsistent Supporting Cast- Offensive Line Struggles: The Giants' offensive line has consistently ranked among the worst in the NFL during Jones' tenure. Poor pass protection has left him under constant pressure, leading to hurried throws, sacks, and turnovers.
- Lack of Weapons: Jones has had limited support from his receiving corps. Injuries to key players like Saquon Barkley, Sterling Shepard, and other skill position players have prevented the offense from developing rhythm or consistency.
- Receiver Play: Even with high draft picks spent on players like Kadarius Toney or big contracts like Kenny Golladay, the receiving corps has underperformed or been unavailable, leaving Jones without reliable options.
2. Turnover Issues- Ball Security: Fumbles have been a persistent issue since Jones entered the league. Poor pocket awareness and struggles with holding onto the ball have plagued his career.
- Interceptions: While his interception numbers have improved, Jones has struggled with decision-making at times, forcing throws under pressure or misreading defenses.
3. Coaching Turnover and Scheme Changes- Frequent Changes: Jones has played under multiple head coaches (Pat Shurmur, Joe Judge, Brian Daboll) and offensive coordinators, leading to a lack of stability and continuity in offensive schemes.
- Limited Development: The revolving door of leadership hindered his development, with some systems failing to maximize his skill set or protect him from his weaknesses.
4. Injuries- Jones has faced various injuries throughout his career, limiting his availability and preventing him from building momentum. Durability concerns have compounded the Giants' offensive struggles.
5. Pressure of Expectations- High Draft Pick: Being the sixth overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft came with significant expectations. Jones was seen as a reach at the time, and the pressure to perform quickly for a rebuilding team may have been too much.
- Media and Fan Scrutiny: Playing in New York brings heightened scrutiny. Mistakes have been amplified, and his struggles have often been compared to other young quarterbacks drafted in the same era.
6. Skill Set Limitations- Pocket Awareness: Jones has struggled with identifying and escaping pressure effectively. While he's a good athlete, his decision-making in chaotic situations hasn't matched his physical tools.
- Arm Talent: While Jones has an adequate arm, he lacks the elite velocity or deep-ball accuracy that would help him overcome other deficiencies in the offense.
7. Success Under Brian Daboll (and Its Limitations)- Jones showed improvement in 2022 under Brian Daboll, who brought more structure and creativity to the offense. However, the improvement may have masked fundamental issues, as the team leaned heavily on Barkley and Jones' rushing ability to move the ball.
- When facing elite defenses or trailing in games, Jones struggled to carry the offense with his arm alone, revealing a ceiling as a quarterback who thrives in managed situations but not when asked to shoulder the load.
8. Systemic Problems in the Organization- Poor Roster Building: The Giants' struggles stem not just from Jones but from years of poor draft decisions, free-agent signings, and mismanagement of the roster.
- Mismatch of Talent and Scheme: The lack of alignment between Jones' skill set and the talent around him limited his ability to succeed, even when coached by competent staff.
ConclusionDaniel Jones' difficulties in the NFL are less about a singular failure and more about a convergence of factors: organizational instability, poor team-building, and his own limitations as a player. While he has shown flashes of potential, especially as a dual-threat quarterback, he has not consistently demonstrated the ability to elevate a flawed team or overcome his own weaknesses. For Jones to succeed, he would likely need an elite supporting cast and a stable environment—neither of which he's consistently had with the Giants.
I liked the Chat answers better than the Google AI. So here are the answers for the two QBs where I used the Google AIZach Wilson's struggles in the NFL stem from a combination of factors, including his development, situational challenges, and specific shortcomings in his play. Here's an in-depth breakdown:
1. Lack of NFL-Ready Experience- Limited College Competition: Wilson played at BYU against relatively weaker competition compared to Power 5 schools. While he flashed big play potential, the jump to the NFL's speed and complexity proved challenging.
- Inconsistent College Resume: Wilson's standout junior year vaulted him up draft boards, but questions lingered about his consistency and ability to handle adversity.
2. Overwhelming Expectations- High Draft Pick Pressure: As the second overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft, Wilson faced immense pressure to deliver immediately for a struggling franchise. His draft status amplified every misstep and invited heavy scrutiny.
- New York Market: Playing in the New York media market meant every failure was magnified. The Jets' history of quarterback struggles only added to the narrative.
3. Poor Situational Support- Subpar Offensive Line: Wilson often faced heavy pressure behind an inconsistent offensive line, which stunted his ability to develop pocket presence and comfort in the system.
- Lack of Playmakers: While the Jets improved their roster over time, Wilson's early seasons lacked dynamic weapons that could elevate his game or compensate for his struggles.
- Frequent Coaching Changes: The Jets experienced significant turnover and restructuring, which contributed to a lack of stability in Wilson's development environment.
4. Mechanics and Decision-Making Issues- Inconsistent Mechanics: Wilson's footwork and throwing mechanics were often erratic, leading to accuracy issues, particularly on routine short-to-intermediate throws.
- Poor Decision-Making: Wilson struggled with processing NFL defenses, frequently forcing throws into tight windows or failing to see defenders in coverage.
- Turnover-Prone: His tendency to throw interceptions or make ill-advised decisions in critical moments led to a loss of confidence from coaches and teammates.
5. Confidence and Mental Challenges- Loss of Confidence: Wilson's performance often showed a lack of poise under pressure, and his struggles seemed to affect his mental approach. By his second season, he appeared hesitant and unsure of his reads.
- Benching and Public Criticism: Frequent benchings and public critique by coaches and the media eroded his standing within the team and potentially affected his confidence.
6. Poor Leadership Perception- Locker Room Issues: Reports emerged suggesting Wilson had strained relationships with teammates. One notable incident was his perceived lack of accountability after a poor performance against the Patriots in 2022, where he deflected blame for the loss.
- Immaturity Concerns: Critics pointed to moments where Wilson's maturity and professionalism were questioned, further alienating him from teammates and fans.
7. Comparisons to Peers- Draft Class Success: Wilson was compared to other quarterbacks from his draft class (e.g., Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, and even later picks like Brock Purdy), many of whom showed more progress or adaptability, further highlighting his struggles.
- Immediate Pressure: The Jets' struggles were magnified by fans and media who expected Wilson to follow the trajectory of other recent high-pick quarterbacks who turned around franchises quickly.
8. Jets' Organizational History- The Jets have a long history of struggling to develop young quarterbacks. A lack of organizational stability and poor infrastructure for grooming young talent likely contributed to Wilson's challenges.
- The arrival of Aaron Rodgers in 2023 was a tacit admission that the Jets could not rely on Wilson to lead a playoff-ready roster.
ConclusionZach Wilson's struggles are the result of a perfect storm: a raw quarterback thrust into a demanding role without adequate support, an unforgiving media environment, and personal limitations in mechanics, decision-making, and leadership. His potential still exists, but for Wilson to succeed, he may need a fresh start in a more stable, development-focused environment where he can reset without the weight of franchise-saving expectations.
Justin Fields' challenges in the NFL are the result of a combination of external factors and his own areas for improvement. While "failure" may be premature—Fields has shown flashes of brilliance—he has struggled to meet the lofty expectations that accompanied his entry into the league. Here's a detailed breakdown of why Fields has faced difficulties:
1. Poor Organizational Support- Ineffective Offensive Line: The Chicago Bears have consistently fielded one of the NFL's worst offensive lines during Fields' tenure. Constant pressure and poor protection have stunted his development and led to high sack rates.
- Limited Weapons: Fields has lacked elite receiving options for much of his career. While D.J. Moore's addition in 2023 helped, prior years saw him working with subpar wide receivers and inconsistent playmakers.
- Coaching Challenges: Fields has played under two different coaching regimes (Matt Nagy and Matt Eberflus), each with its own challenges. Offensive schemes have often been criticized as unimaginative, failing to maximize his strengths as a dynamic dual-threat quarterback.
2. Adjustments to NFL Defenses- Struggles Reading Defenses: Fields has faced difficulties processing NFL defenses quickly, particularly post-snap adjustments. This has led to missed opportunities, slow decision-making, and an over-reliance on his athleticism.
- Holds the Ball Too Long: Fields has consistently ranked among the league leaders in time to throw, leading to unnecessary sacks and limiting the offense's rhythm.
3. Inconsistent Passing Development- Accuracy Concerns: While Fields has shown the ability to make big-time throws, his accuracy on short and intermediate routes has been inconsistent. Overthrows, timing issues, and misreads have limited his effectiveness in structured passing plays.
- Pocket Passing Limitations: Fields has yet to develop into a consistently effective pocket passer, which is critical for long-term success in the NFL. His reliance on scrambling can make him predictable and limit the offense's diversity.
4. Pressure and Turnovers- High Sack Rates: Fields takes sacks at an alarming rate, often a combination of poor offensive line play, slow decision-making, and hesitancy to throw the ball away.
- Turnovers: While he has improved over time, Fields has struggled with fumbles and interceptions, particularly when under duress.
5. Physical and Mental Toll- Injuries: Fields has endured injuries, including a shoulder issue in 2022, that have limited his availability and potentially hindered his confidence. His physical style of play exposes him to frequent hits.
- Mental Challenges: Losing games and constant scrutiny can wear on a quarterback's confidence. Fields has had to navigate a high-pressure environment while trying to lead a rebuilding team.
6. Unrealistic Expectations- Hype from College: Coming out of Ohio State, Fields was viewed as a franchise savior due to his elite college production, athleticism, and arm talent. However, transitioning to the NFL often takes time, particularly for quarterbacks from systems that don't closely resemble pro schemes.
- Comparisons to Peers: Fields has been compared to other quarterbacks in his draft class, such as Trevor Lawrence, who have had more favorable development environments and team success, which amplifies the perception of failure.
7. Coaching and Scheme Fit- Misuse of Skillset: Early in his career, Fields was often asked to play in systems that didn't fully utilize his athleticism or cater to his strengths as a dual-threat quarterback.
- Lack of Designed Runs: While the Bears leaned into Fields' rushing ability more in 2022, earlier schemes failed to incorporate enough designed runs, limiting his impact on the ground and leaving him reliant on improvisation.
8. Organizational Instability- Bears' History of Struggles: The Chicago Bears have a long history of struggling to develop quarterbacks, due to poor roster building, subpar offensive coaching, and a lack of vision for maximizing talent.
- Rebuilding Team: Fields was drafted into a franchise in the midst of a rebuild, meaning he was asked to perform at a high level without adequate support or a winning infrastructure.
ConclusionJustin Fields' struggles are a product of both systemic issues within the Chicago Bears organization and his own developmental challenges. To succeed long-term, Fields needs:
- A stronger offensive line to reduce pressure.
- Continued refinement of his passing mechanics and decision-making.
- A coaching staff that fully tailors the offense to his dual-threat abilities.
If these conditions aren't met, Fields may face a difficult path to reaching his full potential, despite his clear talent and work ethic. He still has the tools to succeed, but his environment and adjustments will be key.