Big Blue Huddle

General Category => Big Blue Huddle => Topic started by: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 02:35:41 PM

Poll
Question: If the Giants don't draft QB at 3, who do you want NYG to draft?
Option 1: Jalen Milroe votes: 9
Option 2: Jaxson Dart votes: 32
Option 3: Will Howard votes: 7
Option 4: Kyle McCord votes: 6
Option 5: Other (post name below) votes: 0
Title: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 02:35:41 PM
Which one of the above 2nd-tier QBs would you like to see NYG draft?  What round do you think the Giants will need to grab them?  If you say wait and see if they fall, who are your one or two fall-back options?  Otherwise, assume the Giants will need to over-draft the QB to ensure they land him.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: President Rick on January 21, 2025, 02:45:02 PM
Howard, but IMo he's 1st tier.  Top of the second, take him, if he doesn't go in the first round.

Trading down in the first could net us Howard and a starting OL tackle.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MrGap92 on January 21, 2025, 02:46:19 PM
Dart
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 02:54:36 PM
Quote from: President Rick on January 21, 2025, 02:45:02 PMHoward, but IMo he's 1st tier.  Top of the second, take him, if he doesn't go in the first round.

Trading down in the first could net us Howard and a starting OL tackle.

If you want until round 2 and someone grabs him first, who is your fallback option?
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Ed Vette on January 21, 2025, 03:13:37 PM
Right "now" it's Dart. Actually neck and neck with McCord.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Ed Vette on January 21, 2025, 03:15:28 PM
Howard stepped up big time last night.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: brownelvis54 on January 21, 2025, 03:17:20 PM
DART, DART, DART
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:19:33 PM
For those answering Dart, how do the Giants acquire him?   If a team beats NYG to the punch, what is your backup plan?
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Jclayton92 on January 21, 2025, 03:26:08 PM
Will Howard was a pedestrian Qb before transferring to Ohio St who had 3 all world Wrs, and 2 all world Rbs. Look at these stats.

2020- 9 games, 1100 yards, 8tds, 10int

2021- 3 games, 300 yards, 1td, 1int

2022- 7 games, 1600 yards, 15tds, 4Int

2023- 12 games, 2600 yards 24tds, 10int

2024- 16 games, 4,000 yards 35tds, 10int


His first 4 years he played in the BIG12 which has the softest defenses in college football yet he couldn't produce. The only season he does produce is with the best players in college football and it took him 4 extra games to produce what Ward, and Dart produced.

Watching tape I see a Qb with sloppy mechanics, that has trouble diagnosing complex schemes. I just don't know how you can boost him when he's had only 1 good year out of 5 playing 4/5ths of that in a soft conference and didn't get better year on year like Dart, Ward, and even McCord to an extent.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Jclayton92 on January 21, 2025, 03:28:49 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:19:33 PMFor those answering Dart, how do the Giants acquire him?   If a team beats NYG to the punch, what is your backup plan?
Think you have to wait post combine to see what people think. We pick at the top of the 2nd and have an extra 4th. So if need be we can package that to go back into the bottom of the 1st if need be. I think Dart ends up going in the teens to early 20s post combine.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:29:42 PM
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 21, 2025, 03:26:08 PMWill Howard was a pedestrian Qb before transferring to Ohio St who had 3 all world Wrs, and 2 all world Rbs. Look at these stats.

2020- 9 games, 1100 yards, 8tds, 10int

2021- 3 games, 300 yards, 1td, 1int

2022- 7 games, 1600 yards, 15tds, 4Int

2023- 12 games, 2600 yards 24tds, 10int

2024- 16 games, 4,000 yards 35tds, 10int


His first 4 years he played in the BIG12 which has the softest defenses in college football yet he couldn't produce. The only season he does produce is with the best players in college football and it took him 4 extra games to produce what Ward, and Dart produced.

Watching tape I see a Qb with sloppy mechanics, that has trouble diagnosing complex schemes. I just don't know how you can boost him when he's had only 1 good year out of 5 playing 4/5ths of that in a soft conference and didn't get better year on year like Dart, Ward, and even McCord to an extent.

Jayden Daniels had less than impressive numbers until his final season when he was throwing to two of the best WRs not just in the draft but potentially in the NFL.  So we have at least one example of a single really good year carring over into the NFL.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: ozzie on January 21, 2025, 03:40:55 PM
If the Giants like any of the QB's in this year's draft, they need to take him at #3. I'm tired of hearing about "reaching" for a guy you could have in the later rounds. There's no guarantee that player will be there later and the Giants have gotten too cute in past drafts and lost out on players.
We're talking about a franchise QB here. If they believe in him, they need to just take him. I don't think this regime has the time NOT to draft "their" guy, because if they fail again next season, they will be gone.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:44:07 PM
@Ed Vette

The three you mentioned (Dart, McCord, and Howard) are the three I am most fond of.  My darkhorse is Milrose. If Daboll can develop a simplified offense similar to what Lamar Jackson ran early in his career, and you sign Fields as the veteran, I think the team could achieve a level of success with a nice ceiling.  Although I can't help but feel like Milrose could be Anthony Richardson 2.0
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MrGap92 on January 21, 2025, 04:39:33 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:44:07 PM@Ed Vette

The three you mentioned (Dart, McCord, and Howard) are the three I am most fond of.  My darkhorse is Milrose. If Daboll can develop a simplified offense similar to what Lamar Jackson ran early in his career, and you sign Fields as the veteran, I think the team could achieve a level of success with a nice ceiling.  Although I can't help but feel like Milrose could be Anthony Richardson 2.0

The Colts are going to regret rushing AR into the fire for years to come I think. That guy needed a year plus on the bench.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: GloryDays on January 21, 2025, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 21, 2025, 03:26:08 PMWill Howard was a pedestrian Qb before transferring to Ohio St who had 3 all world Wrs, and 2 all world Rbs. Look at these stats.

2020- 9 games, 1100 yards, 8tds, 10int

2021- 3 games, 300 yards, 1td, 1int

2022- 7 games, 1600 yards, 15tds, 4Int

2023- 12 games, 2600 yards 24tds, 10int

2024- 16 games, 4,000 yards 35tds, 10int


His first 4 years he played in the BIG12 which has the softest defenses in college football yet he couldn't produce. The only season he does produce is with the best players in college football and it took him 4 extra games to produce what Ward, and Dart produced.

Watching tape I see a Qb with sloppy mechanics, that has trouble diagnosing complex schemes. I just don't know how you can boost him when he's had only 1 good year out of 5 playing 4/5ths of that in a soft conference and didn't get better year on year like Dart, Ward, and even McCord to an extent.

THIS  :ok:

A big evaluator of hidden talent is performing better than average, under unfavorable circumstance and with mediocre supporting players around him... this year I have not watched more than 7-8 college games, but Dart checks out great when you consider this drafting criteria.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: sooners56 on January 21, 2025, 05:04:15 PM
I chose Dart.

Was highly rated in High School.
Improved every year while playing 4 years of college.
Played against SEC defenses.
Has athleticism.

Sounds like a good QB to draft wether in the fist round or 2nd.

Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Brooklyn Dave on January 21, 2025, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 21, 2025, 02:46:19 PMDart

SWe finally agree on something !!!
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Brooklyn Dave on January 21, 2025, 05:31:49 PM
Milroe has the potential to be the next Lamar Jackson or the next Jameson Winston
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: DaveBrown74 on January 21, 2025, 05:38:40 PM
I chose Dart because I do like seeing year over year improvement with college players, which you definitely get with Dart, plus his performance this past year was objectively excellent with an extremely challenging schedule. I love that 10.8 YPA number... the best in the SEC.

He seems like the highest probability out of these QBs to turn into something better than mediocre at the next level. With that said, I won't be surprised if none of these names ends up a quality NFL starter though. Obviously it's possible one or more could, but the odds just don't favor it.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Ed Vette on January 21, 2025, 06:11:53 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:44:07 PM@Ed Vette

The three you mentioned (Dart, McCord, and Howard) are the three I am most fond of.  My darkhorse is Milrose. If Daboll can develop a simplified offense similar to what Lamar Jackson ran early in his career, and you sign Fields as the veteran, I think the team could achieve a level of success with a nice ceiling.  Although I can't help but feel like Milrose could be Anthony Richardson 2.0
I'm not sold on Fields. Richardson was drafted too high and along with it brings unrealistic expectations. Let's see how he develops. The Giants may very well draft Cam Ward or Sanders and all this will be an exercise in mental masturbation. Nothing wrong with discussing it, but post Combine is best.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: DaveBrown74 on January 21, 2025, 06:54:43 PM
@MightyGiants,

Based on what you know today, how high would you be willing to draft Milroe?

I fully appreciate this answer could evolve over the next few months. Just curious how you see it now.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Jclayton92 on January 21, 2025, 06:58:30 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:29:42 PMJayden Daniels had less than impressive numbers until his final season when he was throwing to two of the best WRs not just in the draft but potentially in the NFL.  So we have at least one example of a single really good year carring over into the NFL.
That's not accurate, Daniels averaged 3500 yards 24 tds and 5 ints in 3 years before his final year at LSU. That's completely different than the stats Howard put up for years before this year.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 07:18:35 PM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 21, 2025, 06:54:43 PM@MightyGiants,

Based on what you know today, how high would you be willing to draft Milroe?

I fully appreciate this answer could evolve over the next few months. Just curious how you see it now.

Jeff,


That is a very challenging question.  I would say the third round pick.  I don't have a strong conviction on this answer as drafting QBs outside round one is treading new ground for me.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Ed Vette on January 21, 2025, 07:42:26 PM
Anyone keeping an eye on Matt Stafford and a possible trade?
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MrGap92 on January 21, 2025, 08:11:36 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:19:33 PMFor those answering Dart, how do the Giants acquire him?   If a team beats NYG to the punch, what is your backup plan?

Idk about backup plan, but I'd be willing to draft him R1 if they can successfully trade down to lets say early to mid 20s and get a couple picks along the way.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: TDToomer on January 22, 2025, 11:22:54 AM
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 21, 2025, 07:42:26 PMAnyone keeping an eye on Matt Stafford and a possible trade?

Sounds like something right out of the 1970's Wilderness years playbook.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Gmo11 on January 22, 2025, 11:41:27 AM
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 21, 2025, 07:42:26 PMAnyone keeping an eye on Matt Stafford and a possible trade?

Lions should do it.  Just for comedy's sake they should do it.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Ed Vette on January 22, 2025, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: TDToomer on January 22, 2025, 11:22:54 AMSounds like something right out of the 1970's Wilderness years playbook.
I'd take him as a bridge QB on a 2 year. He's 36 and may not want much more. He already got the big money. Worth a 3rd rounder for me. 23 Million this year and 26 million next year.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Painter on January 22, 2025, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 21, 2025, 03:19:33 PMFor those answering Dart, how do the Giants acquire him?   If a team beats NYG to the punch, what is your backup plan?

As I see it, if the Giants really want Dart, their already 9 Draft picks (possibly even more if they lose either or both Kafka and Brando Brown) will give them whatever leverage it might take. And so, a backup plan as such is for me a non-issue.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: files58 on January 22, 2025, 02:01:35 PM
I've been in favor of Howard even before the championship game. Minutes ago viewed a short clip of the 07 NFC title game against the Pack. At the end you saw Eli and Favre come together. Got me thinking maybe it's time for another Mississippi boy. Connerly --- Eli---   Daboll needs to ID the QB who can best develop a QB/WR relationship with Nabors. That's job #1 for any QB on this team. The most important skill now at the QB position is the ability to be successful off platform, out of the pocket. I've seen Howard do it, and I've seen Dart do it.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Trench on January 22, 2025, 03:07:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 22, 2025, 01:06:27 PMI'd take him as a bridge QB on a 2 year. He's 36 and may not want much more. He already got the big money. Worth a 3rd rounder for me. 23 Million this year and 26 million next year.

We would make the playoffs next year with Stafford. In fact we could challenge for the division title. Don't forget we lost MANY close games past few years.

Stafford wins almost all of them
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Ed Vette on January 22, 2025, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: Trench on January 22, 2025, 03:07:10 PMWe would make the playoffs next year with Stafford. In fact we could challenge for the division title. Don't forget we lost MANY close games past few years.

Stafford wins almost all of them
100% I've been a fan for years.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: Jclayton92 on January 22, 2025, 09:22:53 PM
Saw Rick Spielman the former GM, say he was hearing the Jaxson Dart had intangibles off the chart in the mold of JJ Mccarthy with the intangibles.

Also keep seeing in multiple places scours concerns over the extremely high volume of Ints Sanders threw in what is considered the weakest Defensive conference in college football with average talent. That and him being 1-8 vs top 25 teams.
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: MightyGiants on January 23, 2025, 10:51:09 AM
@Ed Vette and @Trench

Look at Stafford's injury history

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/matthew-stafford/2

Right now, he is on the Rams, who (in my opinion) have one of the best medical staffs in the league (along with the Eagles).   

What are the odds Stafford stays healthy and on the field under the care of Ronnie Barnes and company?
Title: Re: Who is your favorite second tier QB prospect?
Post by: nb587 on January 23, 2025, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2025, 10:51:09 AM@Ed Vette and @Trench

Look at Stafford's injury history

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/matthew-stafford/2

Right now, he is on the Rams, who (in my opinion) have one of the best medical staffs in the league (along with the Eagles).   

What are the odds Stafford stays healthy and on the field under the care of Ronnie Barnes and company?
I think the Stafford talk is fantasy.  I don't know if he has a no trade contract; if he did he would veto the Giants or any other team with a weak OL.  If he didn't have it, I suspect he would retire.  At this stage of his career, he wants to play for a title, he doesn't want to get beat up, probably doesn't need the money and probably doesn't want to play in the cold.