Big Blue Huddle

GUESTS MAY VOTE.  It seems like a reasonable possibility that either Schoen or Ward could fall to the Giants at 3.  Would you be happy if the Giants drafted them?

I believe if that happens Schoen will be getting some unbelievable offers.

If he doesn't capitalize on them, it will be grounds for immediate dismissal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It will be a QB sadly.  The boobsie twins need to save their job. And I am sure they can convince Mara with some more magical pie in the sky visions of success and another 3 years of nice fat salaries.

This is what you get when your owner is paralyzed and afraid to make another change. 

Quote from: Giant Obsession on January 23, 2025, 10:49:34 AMIt will be a QB sadly.  The boobsie twins need to save their job. And I am sure they can convince Mara with some more magical pie in the sky visions of success and another 3 years of nice fat salaries.

This is what you get when your owner is paralyzed and afraid to make another change. 

Mike,

I will confess that I would feel a lot more confident in this critical offseason if the people making the decisions were not fighting for their jobs.   This roster is far from finished, and we need patience and build things the right way, not quick fixes or taking flyers on a QB who may have long odds of succeeding, or worse, mortgaging the future on a QB prospect that may have odds closer to a lottery ticket than a top 10 QB draft pick..

They only need good not great QB play to save their jobs, assuming they are able to make continued progress on the rest of the roster.

If they're smart, which admittedly is a growing IF at this point, they will understand that fact and act accordingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2025, 10:54:05 AMMike,

I will confess that I would feel a lot more confident in this critical offseason if the people making the decisions were not fighting for their jobs.  This roster is far from finished, and we need patience and build things the right way, not quick fixes or taking flyers on a QB who may have long odds of succeeding, or worse, mortgaging the future on a QB prospect that may have odds closer to a lottery ticket than a top 10 QB draft pick..

Rich, I totally respect what you say and always will.

BUT, as I am sure you can tell over the past year that unlike John Mara, I have run OUT OF PATIENCE.

Not canning at least Daboll and also Shoen was nothing more than "I don't know what to do, so I am not going to do anything and hope for the best."

Mara is NOT equipped (obviously) to make these kind of decisions. 

Period. 

Since I believe Ward and Sanders to be good prospects and the Giants are in DIRE need of good QB play, the Giants would be committing a cardinal sin by not drafting one of them.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on January 23, 2025, 11:00:51 AMRich, I totally respect what you say and always will.

BUT, as I am sure you can tell over the past year that unlike John Mara, I have run OUT OF PATIENCE.

Not canning at least Daboll and also Shoen was nothing more than "I don't know what to do, so I am not going to do anything and hope for the best."

Mara is NOT equipped (obviously) to make these kind of decisions. 

Period.

Mike,

You will not hear me defend the job Schoen and Daboll have done, nor will I say that Mara is running the organization in a manner that will achieve success. 

It's sort of ironic.  We have witnessed owners with truly toxic personalities who have not enjoyed success, like Woody Johnson and Dan Snyder.  You can see their bad ways of doing things and treating people just kill the team.  Then you have John Mara, who, from all we know, is about a nice a guy and true gentleman that you could ask for out of an NFL owner.  Sadly, it's that niceness is just as detrimental as the toxic personalities as it prevents the team from having a culture of accountability and excellence.

As long as Ronnie Barnes is running our medical program, anyone hired will be handicapped by excessive injuries.    As long as family members are in key front office roles, a proper chain of command and a culture of accountability will not be possible.

Mara didn't want to change the leadership because he didn't want to have a reputation for being fickle and not giving his people a chance.  Plus, while Schoen has not proven to be a good GM, he appears to be likable enough on a personal level, and for Mara, that (rather than winning) goes a long way.

Now we have the worst possible situation, in my opinion.  We have a GM and HC on the hot seat and no quarterback in an offseason with limited ways of acquiring a quality QB.  It would seem to make more sense to build up the team and perhaps make a move or two to boost next year's draft capital (with an eye on drafting a QB in next year's class, which will likely be better) than overpaying for questionable QB talent this season in an effort to save one's job.

Quote from: sooners56 on January 23, 2025, 11:06:43 AMSince I believe Ward and Sanders to be good prospects and the Giants are in DIRE need of good QB play, the Giants would be committing a cardinal sin by not drafting one of them.

If Schoen and Daboll feel that one (or both) are franchise QBs, then I have no problem with drafting one at 3.   I just don't want them to draft one to fill a need or make themselves fall in love with one out of desperation.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2025, 11:15:16 AMIf Schoen and Daboll feel that one (or both) are franchise QBs, then I have no problem with drafting one at 3.   I just don't want them to draft one to fill a need or make themselves fall in love with one out of desperation.

Exactly right.  Because that's how you wind up with Daniel Jones.

From what I have been reading and watching lately....Sanders and Ward would have been the 6 or 7th Qb behind The top QBs in last years draft.
I also think that if they can get the right bridge QB in free agency......they don't have to pick QB in first round.
So unless the dab duo are completely convinced that ward or Sanders is the guy for the future....then use the pick to get best available player at that spot or trade for more picks etc.

My gut feeling is that they will pick one of the two to help themselves ....by that I mean if they take a QB #1/ then logic says he will need a couple years to develop .....so they can argue for another two or three years for themselves to do so.
Not real confident in their " plan", so far.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2025, 11:15:16 AMIf Schoen and Daboll feel that one (or both) are franchise QBs, then I have no problem with drafting one at 3.   I just don't want them to draft one to fill a need or make themselves fall in love with one out of desperation.

This is where I am at

IDC who is there or not, they have to truly believe in the guy, regardless of who or where.

I don't think either is at the level of the three they passed on last year to nab a wide receiver whose stellar year (and I'm not being sarcastic) helped them achieve a 3-14 record. Now they are in a position where their QB room is the worst in the NFL and the owner pretty much demanded they draft a QB to develop. He made it pretty clear that was the only reason they were not fired. But like the Bears last season who foolishly believed their coach who already was suspect was allowed another year with a rookie QB, I see the same fate for Daboll and Schoen. They will both be fired next year so I would rather see some nice foundational parts drafted this year and next year, when a new coach and GM is here, let them draft their QB. I believe there will be better prospects at the position to choose from next year also.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 23, 2025, 09:46:08 AMI believe if that happens Schoen will be getting some unbelievable offers.

If he doesn't capitalize on them, it will be grounds for immediate dismissal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

THIS!

I selected neither. However, if they do, I would be ambivalent, to tell you the truth. Of course, once they're signed, sealed and delivered, I will wish them only the very best and hope they would come in and become engrained with the team and lift up the offensive performance of everyone around them. What more could you ask of them?

But Schoen and company had damned well better fix the offensive line, and reinforce it so that unit remains both functional AND competitive THROUGHOUT the 2025 season, or else!

Peace!

Quote from: katkavage on January 23, 2025, 12:05:36 PMI don't think either is at the level of the three they passed on last year to nab a wide receiver whose stellar year (and I'm not being sarcastic) helped them achieve a 3-14 record. Now they are in a position where their QB room is the worst in the NFL and the owner pretty much demanded they draft a QB to develop. He made it pretty clear that was the only reason they were not fired. But like the Bears last season who foolishly believed their coach who already was suspect was allowed another year with a rookie QB, I see the same fate for Daboll and Schoen. They will both be fired next year so I would rather see some nice foundational parts drafted this year and next year, when a new coach and GM is here, let them draft their QB. I believe there will be better prospects at the position to choose from next year also.

I do think they're going to take a QB in either the 1st or 2nd round for the reasons you stated.  I would push back a little bit on the notion that Daboll is as bad as Eberflus because at least Daboll has won a coach of the year award by dragging that lousy 2022 team to the playoffs while getting every bit of talent Jones had out of him. So I do think with a legitimate QB along with the pieces the offense has around him that they will be able to score some points as soon as next season.

I think the least likely scenario is they put the team ahead of themselves by passing on all the QBs building up the roster, lose 14 games again, get fired, and set up the next GM for success.  They are going to take a QB and hope that kid can save their jobs.  Just a matter of is it Ward/Sanders at 3 or Dart/Milroe late 1st early 2nd round.

Quote from: Gmo11 on January 23, 2025, 12:19:56 PMI do think they're going to take a QB in either the 1st or 2nd round for the reasons you stated.  I would push back a little bit on the notion that Daboll is as bad as Eberflus because at least Daboll has won a coach of the year award by dragging that lousy 2022 team to the playoffs while getting every bit of talent Jones had out of him. So I do think with a legitimate QB along with the pieces the offense has around him that they will be able to score some points as soon as next season.

I think the least likely scenario is they put the team ahead of themselves by passing on all the QBs building up the roster, lose 14 games again, get fired, and set up the next GM for success.  They are going to take a QB and hope that kid can save their jobs.  Just a matter of is it Ward/Sanders at 3 or Dart/Milroe late 1st early 2nd round.

2022, the season that keeps on giving...to Giants' failure. That mirage of a year was the worst thing to happen to the Giants in terms of their future. It's like they signed a deal with the devil that you'll get one good year, I get ten bad ones off of it. I do agree that they will absolutely draft a QB and sign a bridge as well. If the bridge is someone like Carr, Darnold, or Cousins, they might pick the QB in the second or third round. If the bridge is a real retread like Garappolo, Wentz or Brisset, they will take either Ward or Sanders in the first round.

Quote from: katkavage on January 23, 2025, 12:25:38 PM2022, the season that keeps on giving...to Giants' failure. That mirage of a year was the worst thing to happen to the Giants in terms of their future. It's like they signed a deal with the devil that you'll get one good year, I get ten bad ones off of it. I do agree that they will absolutely draft a QB and sign a bridge as well. If the bridge is someone like Carr, Darnold, or Cousins, they might pick the QB in the second or third round. If the bridge is a real retread like Garappolo, Wentz or Brisset, they will take either Ward or Sanders in the first round.

Do you consider 2022 or 2023 to be the most detrimental seasons?  I get that 2022 spurred the Giants to sign DJ to a veteran contract, but unless they finished with the first or 2nd pick in the draft, it wasn't like there was a QB prospect worth drafting in 2023 (I am not counting the fluke that was Brock Purdy).

To me, having those meaningless wins push them out of position to draft Daniels or Maye will have a much longer negative impact on this team. 

 I didn't vote because I wanted another choice--Like---who is still on the board when we do draft.

Sure we need a QB, but maybe Hunter is still there and his value is way above the value of the two QBs. What if Carter is there and they truly feel he is a game changer in the mold of Parsons and value him also above what the 2 QBs are valued.

If they feel that either of the QBs are valued above any other player on the board, then draft either one but don't draft one or the other just for the sake of getting a QB and leaving tremendous value still on the board.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2025, 12:29:45 PMDo you consider 2022 or 2023 to be the most detrimental seasons?  I get that 2022 spurred the Giants to sign DJ to a veteran contract, but unless they finished with the first or 2nd pick in the draft, it wasn't like there was a QB prospect worth drafting in 2023 (I am not counting the fluke that was Brock Purdy).

To me, having those meaningless wins push them out of position to draft Daniels or Maye will have a much longer negative impact on this team. 

The false narrative of 2022 was most damaging. No, there were no QBs in the 2023 draft, but if they realized where they really were as a franchise at that time, maybe they would have done a better job truly rebuilding and aiming for a QB in 2024 instead of patching here and there. Like it puffed up Jones, hiding what he always was as a QB, it, I fear, has done the same with Daboll. He won some very close games that could have gone either way buoyed by a great season by Barkley and won a playoff game on the road against a team they were, at the time, frankly better than in my opinion. Since the middle of 2022, Daboll, for the most part has been a dreadful head coach and by most accounts would have been gone if not for the early success he had in those close games.

Rich,

Couldn't agree with you more about having a coach and GM in desperation mode. Position of weakness for the future. Not desirable at all, but that's a real possibility as a security blanket for them. If Carter or Hunter are available, Id race to the podium with the card. We need great players, all pro types, not  overreach at QB.

https://x.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1882506496631771435

What I want matters only to the extent that whomever they chose will prove be successful in making the Giants playoff competitive consistently which is something they have not been for most of the past decade plus. Of course, that's not a certainty, not now or ever.

That said, I do hope that they will not feel the need to trade up to try to accomplish it.

Cheers!

Quote from: LennG on January 23, 2025, 01:11:19 PMI didn't vote because I wanted another choice--Like---who is still on the board when we do draft.

Sure we need a QB, but maybe Hunter is still there and his value is way above the value of the two QBs. What if Carter is there and they truly feel he is a game changer in the mold of Parsons and value him also above what the 2 QBs are valued.

If they feel that either of the QBs are valued above any other player on the board, then draft either one but don't draft one or the other just for the sake of getting a QB and leaving tremendous value still on the board.

Len,

At this point, I think there are two elite prospects (CB/WR Hunter and Edge Carter) and 2 QBs.  So if both QBs fall then the two elite players are gone.  If one or both of the QBs go, you should have a choice of one of the two elite prospects.