Tony Pauline says the Giants are in the veteran guard market
https://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1896367354013172018
https://x.com/talkingiants/status/1896655656842838372?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
To attract free agents to the Giants this off season they will have to heavily outbid other teams. All things equal, who is coming to a losing dysfunctional franchise where the coach and GM are practically lame ducks? They will get some by outspending significantly.
Quote from: katkavage on March 03, 2025, 06:44:50 PMTo attract free agents to the Giants this off season they will have to heavily outbid other teams. All things equal, who is coming to a losing dysfunctional franchise where the coach and GM are practically lame ducks? They will get some by outspending significantly.
If they get those two things in FA and draft a QB that can play competently (Not spectacularly mind you. Just be competent.) then this team is going to be pretty good. There's a lot of talent on this roster but none of it will matter if the QB plays like Daniel Jones.
Quote from: Gmo11 on March 03, 2025, 07:55:14 PMIf they get those two things in FA and draft a QB that can play competently (Not spectacularly mind you. Just be competent.) then this team is going to be pretty good. There's a lot of talent on this roster but none of it will matter if the QB plays like Daniel Jones.
A lot of talent?
Quote from: Philosophers on March 03, 2025, 08:36:04 PMA lot of talent?
Hard to know what you have when the qb can't throw the ball, so talent can't develop, and the defense is never playing with a lead. We had what 11, 1 score games this past season with injuries, and horrible qb play. Imagine what a few extra pieces, and good qb play could do for a young team.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 03, 2025, 08:43:39 PMHard to know what you have when the qb can't throw the ball, so talent can't develop, and the defense is never playing with a lead. We had what 11, 1 score games this past season with injuries, and horrible qb play. Imagine what a few extra pieces, and good qb play could do for a young team.
You are what your record says it is.
Quote from: katkavage on March 03, 2025, 08:49:17 PMYou are what your record says it is.
Until you start playing again. That is the beauty of sport. A clean slate each season with a chance to put things right. Without an answer at QB it is hard to see progress but IF we find one, we probably extrapolate out between what Washington did and what Chicago did (subject to our other changes). For now all any of us can do is wait and hope Schoen has an A+ offseason. Hope not expectation for sure but hope nonetheless.
Quote from: katkavage on March 03, 2025, 08:49:17 PMYou are what your record says it is.
Sums it up. Giants are much worse than 1 QB away.
They have no depth. The Giants starters are always injured. That alone will keep them sub-0.500.
This living in a vacuum thinking that completely ignores this fact is perplexing to me.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2025, 03:40:39 PMhttps://x.com/talkingiants/status/1896655656842838372?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
If this isn't our #1 target at G I will be very surprised
Quote from: katkavage on March 03, 2025, 08:49:17 PMYou are what your record says it is.
Yes, and last year they were a terrible team quite possibly with the worst group of QBs in the entire league. Their record would have had a lot more wins on it had they had even mediocre QB play last season. And with FA and the draft this year not only are they getting a QB they will also plug a couple other remaining holes. OR they'll fall flat on their face and everybody gets fired.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 04, 2025, 07:14:10 AMSums it up. Giants are much worse than 1 QB away.
They have no depth. The Giants starters are always injured. That alone will keep them sub-0.500.
This living in a vacuum thinking that completely ignores this fact is perplexing to me.
How many teams have extensive depth? Maybe KC, Baltimore, and Philly? Outside maybe 4 teams, none of these other teams have exstensive depth. It's why the Texans and Lions floundered in the playoffs because they had starters injured and didn't have said depth. There might be 4 teams that could have injuries at multiple positions and be able to play through it and thrive.
The defense lacks talent all over the field, yet it's the QBs fault for their shortcomings? Crazy!
They have 2 building block pieces on defense in Dex and Burns. They have 2 young pieces who might turn into something with Phillips and Nubin. And then 5-6 replacement level guys.
They need 2 DEs. They need 2 LBs. they need 2 CBs. They need a FS. It's simply not true that there's "a lot of talent" on this roster. They're bottom 5 in the league, easy.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 04, 2025, 02:53:23 PMHow many teams have extensive depth? Maybe KC, Baltimore, and Philly? Outside maybe 4 teams, none of these other teams have exstensive depth. It's why the Texans and Lions floundered in the playoffs because they had starters injured and didn't have said depth. There might be 4 teams that could have injuries at multiple positions and be able to play through it and thrive.
It's not barbelled. The Giants are bottom 3 in starting talent which makes them likely bottom 3 in depth.
How many years does the Giants OL have to go down with injuries then backups fail then team loses for you to see how they have horrible depth? It's not average. It's horrible.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 05, 2025, 06:46:04 AMIt's not barbelled. The Giants are bottom 3 in starting talent which makes them likely bottom 3 in depth.
How many years does the Giants OL have to go down with injuries then backups fail then team loses for you to see how they have horrible depth? It's not average. It's horrible.
This is gospel.
All the more reason that this whole QB talk stuff, especially the insanity of trading away draft capital to move to #1, needs to stop and the focus be centered on the draft capital they currently possess and the potential value it can buy them in terms of talent addition.
The healthy balance of smart, affordable free agency signings, along with good drafting, for three years or so will finally get this team's talent back on par with the rest of the league.
Initial grading of the 2024 draft has been promising. Nail this upcoming draft and, as long as the 2024 guys show improvement, and the team can improve their injury rate, the final product should begin to show signs of progress and improvement.
That's why stable, general progress is more important right now than throwing s young QB into a takent-lacking football team. Improve the team, in general, in 2025 with a bridge QB, then go get the franchise QB in 2026 while continuing to add more talent to s team which should now be showing signs of improvement in talent with improving depth.
It's the best way to dig yourself out of a hole and have your team standing on good footing going forward.
Peace!
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2025, 03:40:39 PMhttps://x.com/talkingiants/status/1896655656842838372?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Rich: If true (the part about high-end CB) it would signal they're not interested in Hunter (more likely) or convinced that Hunter will be gone (less likely) or, in any event, if they actually want to trade up, it is certainly not for Hunter. That's a big IF, of course, since this info just a rumor at this point. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 05, 2025, 08:37:15 AMRich: If true (the part about high-end CB) it would signal they're not interested in Hunter (more likely) or convinced that Hunter will be gone (less likely) or, in any event, if they actually want to trade up, it is certainly not for Hunter. That's a big IF, of course, since this info just a rumor at this point. Bob
There in no guarantee Hunter is there at 3, going into the draft unprepared for a likely outcome as such would be foolish. They could very well draft him still if he is there.
Quote from: kartanoman on March 05, 2025, 08:05:44 AMThis is gospel.
All the more reason that this whole QB talk stuff, especially the insanity of trading away draft capital to move to #1, needs to stop and the focus be centered on the draft capital they currently possess and the potential value it can buy them in terms of talent addition.
The healthy balance of smart, affordable free agency signings, along with good drafting, for three years or so will finally get this team's talent back on par with the rest of the league.
Initial grading of the 2024 draft has been promising. Nail this upcoming draft and, as long as the 2024 guys show improvement, and the team can improve their injury rate, the final product should begin to show signs of progress and improvement.
That's why stable, general progress is more important right now than throwing s young QB into a takent-lacking football team. Improve the team, in general, in 2025 with a bridge QB, then go get the franchise QB in 2026 while continuing to add more talent to s team which should now be showing signs of improvement in talent with improving depth.
It's the best way to dig yourself out of a hole and have your team standing on good footing going forward.
Peace!
Kart,
If only they would have taken your advice at the end of the 2022 season :o
Quote from: katkavage on March 03, 2025, 08:49:17 PMYou are what your record says it is.
Not all cliches have merit in all contexts
Cheers!
Predictable paint by numbers approach. See hole, plug hole.
They should be concentrating on building a dominant outdoor, trench team that can out-physical the Cowboys, Eagles and Commanders. I still see no signs they are doing that. They'll likely get their doors blown off in the NFC East again.
A G is a good step. Instead of a CB, I'd like to see a 3T and a 5T prioritized. Take care of the trenches first. Then Carter in the draft.
Goal is best trench team in the NFL.
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 05, 2025, 08:49:20 AMThere in no guarantee Hunter is there at 3, going into the draft unprepared for a likely outcome as such would be foolish. They could very well draft him still if he is there.
Mr G: True, but it would be extremely rare if he were to go first over all. IMO Carter is the most likely (if any are likely) non-QB first over all pick. Right now, my guess for the first three picks is QB, LB, CB. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 06, 2025, 07:50:55 AMMr G: True, but it would be extremely rare if he were to go first over all. IMO Carter is the most likely (if any are likely) non-QB first over all pick. Right now, my guess for the first three picks is QB, LB, CB. Bob
I agree. It is all mostly up in the air, for sure.
Though if they were to sign say a DJ Reed, Ward, or even someone like Adebo, if they want Hunter, I think they would still draft him.
Here is a good article on the top CB in free agency (a position NYG is likely to target)
https://atozsports.com/nfl/2025-free-agencys-top-cornerbacks-and-why-teams-are-hesitant-to-spend-big-at-the-position/
I am not as high on DJ Reed as some are.
He is a little too close to 30 for a big ticket FA for me, and he has been playing opposite Sauce Gardner for 3 years, can he stay at this level covering the top WRs now without him (Sauce) on the other side?
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 06, 2025, 08:42:07 AMI am not as high on DJ Reed as some are.
He is a little too close to 30 for a big ticket FA for me, and he has been playing opposite Sauce Gardner for 3 years, can he stay at this level covering the top WRs now without him (Sauce) on the other side?
playing opposite Sauce means he most likely was the CB that was targetted the most.
The frustrating thing in all this is Bowen. He is clearly inept and I've heard rumors the players are laughing at him.
The Giants are acquiring personnel for his children's cover 2, and he won't be here in 2026. Maddening stuff.
The inability to hire good coaches is such a huge part of their failures. During their GM search, Hortiz told them he could get Harbaugh. And of course, they hire Schoen/Daboll instead because Schoen bought Parcells coffee 20 years ago. They somehow lucked into getting Wink and blew it, and now have the worst DC in the league. You aren't beating anyone with this staff.
Meanwhile, Harbaugh gets Greg Roman at OC and Jesse Minter at DC. That's a staff that can win games. Ask yourself why in the world the Giants wouldn't've been interested in getting Jim Harbaugh coming off the McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge disasters. They just double down with another 1st time HC with a checkered past of rubbing people the wrong way.
Quote from: 4 Aces on March 06, 2025, 10:48:57 AMThe frustrating thing in all this is Bowen. He is clearly inept and I've heard rumors the players are laughing at him.
The Giants are acquiring personnel for his children's cover 2, and he won't be here in 2026. Maddening stuff.
The inability to hire good coaches is such a huge part of their failures. During their GM search, Hortiz told them he could get Harbaugh. And of course, they hire Schoen/Daboll instead because Schoen bought Parcells coffee 20 years ago. They somehow lucked into getting Wink and blew it, and now have the worst DC in the league. You aren't beating anyone with this staff.
Meanwhile, Harbaugh gets Greg Roman at OC and Jesse Minter at DC. That's a staff that can win games. Ask yourself why in the world the Giants wouldn't've been interested in getting Jim Harbaugh coming off the McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge disasters. They just double down with another 1st time HC with a checkered past of rubbing people the wrong way.
Where did you hear this from?
Quote from: 4 Aces on March 06, 2025, 10:48:57 AMThe frustrating thing in all this is Bowen. He is clearly inept and I've heard rumors the players are laughing at him.
The Giants are acquiring personnel for his children's cover 2, and he won't be here in 2026. Maddening stuff.
The inability to hire good coaches is such a huge part of their failures. During their GM search, Hortiz told them he could get Harbaugh. And of course, they hire Schoen/Daboll instead because Schoen bought Parcells coffee 20 years ago. They somehow lucked into getting Wink and blew it, and now have the worst DC in the league. You aren't beating anyone with this staff.
Meanwhile, Harbaugh gets Greg Roman at OC and Jesse Minter at DC. That's a staff that can win games. Ask yourself why in the world the Giants wouldn't've been interested in getting Jim Harbaugh coming off the McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge disasters. They just double down with another 1st time HC with a checkered past of rubbing people the wrong way.
Bowen is what happens when you keep your HC after he fires his STC, DC, and takes away play calling from his OC. Any hot DC is not going to sign up to coach an under-talented defensive roster for a head coach who is on the hot seat (and who seems to have issues with his assistant coaches).
From what I heard when Bowen was hired, he runs a simplistic defense. Bowen's argument is that by running a simplistic defense the players can play faster. What he neglects to mention is that simplistic defenses are easier for opposing QBs and OCs to figure out and to defeat. Good DCs don't just make their defenses complex for the fun of it.
https://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1898018833148924195
https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1898058800642342957
https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1898099225432408403
Why are Daboll and Schoen so unwilling to try Neal at Guard ? Is it hubris on their part to admit a mistake ? Can someone come up with a logical explanation?
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 07, 2025, 09:51:05 PMWhy are Daboll and Schoen so unwilling to try Neal at Guard ? Is it hubris on their part to admit a mistake ? Can someone come up with a logical explanation?
It's a good question, best guess, stubbornness, and lack of mental flexibility
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 07, 2025, 09:51:05 PMWhy are Daboll and Schoen so unwilling to try Neal at Guard ? Is it hubris on their part to admit a mistake ? Can someone come up with a logical explanation?
https://x.com/jasrifootball/status/1898060628247605649
Giants seem to be zoned in CB or IOL. But they may have to overpay in all likelihood for them (Reed? Fries?). Does that make them more competitive? Perhaps but the depth issue is severely obvious still on both sides of the ball. Desperation and hope are not winning strategies.
Then you factor in the QB stop gap and heir apparent (Rogers? Ward?) to mesh to climb out of basement with a daunting schedule and division. Yipes. I'd prefer they could wait until next year to draft a QB, but thats not happening. Job survival mode is in place and Mara has decreed a future QB now, hence a likely trade up to get one.
:Giants: :boldblue: ...wish I could be more hopeful.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 08, 2025, 08:10:55 AMhttps://x.com/jasrifootball/status/1898060628247605649
dave,
I dont even consider Neal as non-quality depth. No faith in him to transition to guard. Beckton got with the great group in Philly and showed well at guard with his massive bulk. I think of him as more of an exception. Neal is softer than a Carvel icre cream cone.
Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 08, 2025, 09:11:56 AMdave,
I dont even consider Neal as non-quality depth. No faith in him to transition to guard. Beckton got with the great group in Philly and showed well at guard with his massive bulk. I think of him as more of an exception. Neal is softer than a Carvel icre cream cone.
This is what makes not trying Neal at guard last season such a colossal blunder. They could have had more information about Neal's abilities at guard, which would have allowed them to make more informed offseason plans.
Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 08, 2025, 09:11:56 AMdave,
I dont even consider Neal as non-quality depth. No faith in him to transition to guard. Beckton got with the great group in Philly and showed well at guard with his massive bulk. I think of him as more of an exception. Neal is softer than a Carvel icre cream cone.
I don't disagree that he is likely to fail. However, I'd rather at least take a look at him before cutting bait completely. We did that with Flowers and it proved to be a mistake. Beckton is also an example of a failed OT who has found a career at guard.
Does that mean Neal will too necessarily? Of course not. He probably won't. But what is the downside of exploring it a little bit, with a very tight leash? Why we didn't do that last year is a mystery.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 08, 2025, 11:29:12 AMI don't disagree that he is likely to fail. However, I'd rather at least take a look at him before cutting bait completely. We did that with Flowers and it proved to be a mistake. Beckton is also an example of a failed OT who has found a career at guard.
Does that mean Neal will too necessarily? Of course not. He probably won't. But what is the downside of exploring it a little bit, with a very tight leash? Why we didn't do that last year is a mystery.
Fair point, Dave. Of course..this now a salvage operation..but wow .
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 05, 2025, 08:37:15 AMRich: If true (the part about high-end CB) it would signal they're not interested in Hunter (more likely) or convinced that Hunter will be gone (less likely) or, in any event, if they actually want to trade up, it is certainly not for Hunter. That's a big IF, of course, since this info just a rumor at this point. Bob
Not necessarily. You need 3 good corners nowadays with all the 3-4 WR sets offenses use nowadays. Or, they could also be so down on Banks that they may not trust him as the #1.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 07, 2025, 09:51:05 PMWhy are Daboll and Schoen so unwilling to try Neal at Guard ? Is it hubris on their part to admit a mistake ? Can someone come up with a logical explanation?
I am all for trying him at guard, but there is no guarantee he will be good enough. If they can sign someone that they see as an upgrade to what they have now, have to go for it.