https://x.com/schultz_report/status/1903230407790702742?s=46&t=ztHQkdrs2C-vkXmhNZla-g (https://x.com/schultz_report/status/1903230407790702742?s=46&t=ztHQkdrs2C-vkXmhNZla-g)
Cooler heads did prevail! He may not be very good but I'd rather it be him than Rodgers.
https://x.com/dmrussini/status/1903232999275008263?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
https://x.com/snygiants/status/1903232896543973775?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
By the end, Winston was the one I wanted. He has the most natural talent left. Daboll is supposed to be a QB guru. So let's see Daboll work his magic.
Bruh couldn't get Wilson
Damn
Well this should be interesting
We will get to the endzone ... but also throw hella picks
https://x.com/jaboowins/status/1903233800714457262?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Nabers will be an ELITE fantasy WR at the very least
https://x.com/the33rdteamfb/status/1903236864850456629?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Best fit of the bunch. Now who will they draft?
Giants QB Jameis Winston stats (starts only)
2024: (2-5)
61.1% 291 YPG 12 TD 12 INT
2023: No Starts
2022: (1-2)
63.5% 286 YPG 4 TD 5 INT
2021: (5-2)
59.0% 167 YPG 14 TD 3 INT
2020: No Starts
2019: (7-9)
60.7% 319 YPG 33 TD 30 INT
So basically wide open reckless offense except for one year where Sean Payton reeled him in and went 5-2.
https://x.com/bobbyskinner_/status/1903236257423163527?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
I'm good with this. He was my second choice behind Wilson.
Honestly looking at it, only 2 years 8 mil.... He can be the backup option .... If so though ... that means Devito is done
Since the contract is cheap.... Could mean we are bringing in another VET
OR
we are def drafting QB round 1 whether that means trade up or not
https://x.com/mysportsupdate/status/1861433775424450704?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
He should make things more fun to watch than they have been. Might get to see Nabers can really do.
For that price I think it's a good signing. I think fans will enjoy his enthusiasm.
I am not expecting miracles here, he is what he is at this point.
https://x.com/reflog_18/status/1903238681948742001?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Social media saying Rodgers/Wilson still in play as QB1
Reasonable number for a guy with a bunch of experience and who, while eccentric, is always popular in the clubhouse.
Quote from: Trench on March 21, 2025, 08:18:27 PMSocial media saying Rodgers/Wilson still in play as QB1
Could be leverage. "We've got Jameis and are prepared to move forward with him. Make you choice before our offer expires."
Quote from: Trench on March 21, 2025, 08:18:27 PMSocial media saying Rodgers/Wilson still in play as QB1
Wilson/Winston would be a tremendous duo for any rookie to learn from.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2025, 07:58:32 PMBy the end, Winston was the one I wanted. He has the most natural talent left. Daboll is supposed to be a QB guru. So let's see Daboll work his magic.
I'm thinking draft Hunter and Winston coukd have 1 top receiver open all the time.
https://x.com/pleonardnydn/status/1902414860148674613?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
https://x.com/snygiants/status/1903236199226941738?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Let's see, who looks most like Winston in the draft:
BIG ARM, throws off platform, gunslinger mentality.
Ding
Ding
Ding
Cam Ward
I'm smelling a trade up to the first overall pick.
Please NOOOOOOOOOO!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
https://x.com/justinpenik/status/1903243902884163644?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
So lets ask this. Is Winston a better QB than Daniel Jones?
Sorry all you JW fans but if he's QB1, then cutting Jones and eating the cap and then signing Winston?
I'll say it. Beyond stupid.
If they still sign Wilson, then no QB in the first round. Ok, I can buy that one.
If its Flacco and Winston, then that's also beyond stupid for a QB competition.
Whats the guaranteed money?
https://x.com/jk3708/status/1903242310755770707?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 08:40:45 PMSo lets ask this. Is Winston a better QB than Daniel Jones?
Sorry all you JW fans but if he's QB1, then cutting Jones and eating the cap and then signing Winston?
I'll say it. Beyond stupid.
If they still sign Wilson, then no QB in the first round. Ok, I can buy that one.
If its Flacco and Winston, then that's also beyond stupid for a QB competition.
Whats the guaranteed money?
Jones signed for $14 million, Winston for $4 million.
Still the man was a first overall pick. He's only 31. There has to be some talent.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2025, 08:44:00 PMJones signed for $14 million, Winston for $4 million.
Still the man was a first overall pick. He's only 31. There has to be some talent.
The point is that they had Jones under contract. They just needed to sit him and not placate him. They cut him, ate the Cap and then signed a turnover machine to replace him.
I'm good with this. Again, Schoen is showing a lot of discipline this offseason and this contract is fine. Two years means that a QB isn't a guarantee in this draft either, and especially if Rodgers or Wilson are still in play. I honestly would prefer they sign one of those other QB's, or another lesser guy, and worry about QB in the draft next season.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 08:40:45 PMSo lets ask this. Is Winston a better QB than Daniel Jones?
Sorry all you JW fans but if he's QB1, then cutting Jones and eating the cap and then signing Winston?
I'll say it. Beyond stupid.
If they still sign Wilson, then no QB in the first round. Ok, I can buy that one.
If its Flacco and Winston, then that's also beyond stupid for a QB competition.
Whats the guaranteed money?
What would be the point of keeping Jones? He's damaged goods and his performance was a limiting factor for the offense. To a man, every person on this site was frustrated at the lack of deep throws because Jones was shortsighted.
We know what we had in Jones and what we're getting in Winston. For 4 million a year for a veteran QB with a live arm, I'd do that every time.
Come on guys, we needed a bridge QB till whomever we do draft will be ready to go. Winston isn't the future and we sure aren't going to the playoffs next year.
For what we got him, it's a steal. We would never get Rodgers for that and if we did get Rodgers, do you really think we xould win a lot more games? The future is whomever we do draft and Winston is just a placeholder.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 08:40:45 PMSo lets ask this. Is Winston a better QB than Daniel Jones?
Sorry all you JW fans but if he's QB1, then cutting Jones and eating the cap and then signing Winston?
I'll say it. Beyond stupid.
If they still sign Wilson, then no QB in the first round. Ok, I can buy that one.
If its Flacco and Winston, then that's also beyond stupid for a QB competition.
Whats the guaranteed money?
The differentiator is that Winston pushes the ball downfield while Jones either can't or won't. Not to mention the offense being called had to be significantly altered to accommodate Jones deficiencies as a passer, and you wouldn't have to do that with Winston. I'd much rather turn it over attacking 20 yards downfield, than turning it over trying a 2 yard out to Wandale. That's my opinion though.
Quote from: T200 on March 21, 2025, 08:55:14 PMWhat would be the point of keeping Jones? He's damaged goods and his performance was a limiting factor for the offense. To a man, every person on this site was frustrated at the lack of deep throws because Jones was shortsighted.
We know what we had in Jones and what we're getting in Winston. For 4 million a year for a veteran QB with a live arm, I'd do that every time.
Jones is the same QB as Winston. 13 TDs and 12 ints. Let's see what the next move is.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 21, 2025, 09:10:14 PMThe differentiator is that Winston pushes the ball downfield while Jones either can't or won't. Not to mention the offense being called had to be significantly altered to accommodate Jones deficiencies as a passer, and you wouldn't have to do that with Winston. I'd much rather turn it over attacking 20 yards downfield, than turning it over trying a 2 yard out to Wandale. That's my opinion though.
So you also think he's QB1? Ok, maybe its me. I don't see it.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 08:40:45 PMSo lets ask this. Is Winston a better QB than Daniel Jones?
Sorry all you JW fans but if he's QB1, then cutting Jones and eating the cap and then signing Winston?
I'll say it. Beyond stupid.
If they still sign Wilson, then no QB in the first round. Ok, I can buy that one.
If its Flacco and Winston, then that's also beyond stupid for a QB competition.
Whats the guaranteed money?
I think he's significantly better than Jones. That's just my opinion. He's a bit wild but look at the numbers the browns WRs just put up with him starting. None of them are nearly as talented as Nabers. Hyatt might finally be able to get off the bench. It'll even help Tracy. The team just became watchable. And they're still drafting a QB but at least now they don't have to play the rookie before he's ready and when he is ready Winston won't be a pain in the ass about stepping aside.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 09:15:40 PMSo you also think he's QB1? Ok, maybe its me. I don't see it.
Oh absolutely not, I don't particularly like Winston, Wilson, or Rodgers. I am however more optimistic with Winston, than Jones, but we definitely need another Qb.
Yea. Do happy dance..everyone..and inspiring guy..yea. :dance: :Giants: :boldblue: :boldblue:
Jameis is the ultimate test for Dabes..he has amazing talent
But yea,, spider is very good here
Winston isn't anything special, but he is absolutely better than Jones or Lock, no question.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 09:11:04 PMJones is the same QB as Winston. 13 TDs and 12 ints. Let's see what the next move is.
Jameis is career 4.8 TD%, 3.5 INT%, 7.6 YPA.
Jones is 3.1 TD%, 2.1 INT%, 6.5 YPA.
I don't know how you can reasonably claim they're the same quarterback. Jameis is a gunslinger while Jones is a dink-and-dunk game manager (who lost his best asset in running due to injuries). Personally, I'd much rather watch Jameis air it out and turn it over than suffer Jones continually staring down his target and throwing behind the sticks. Both are, at best, bridge QBs in the end. At least with Winston you have the upside of letting Nabers, Slayton and Johnson make plays downfield to challenge the defense.
Mostly, I'm just glad it's DONE! Now draft Hunter or Carter and trade up from 34 and grab Dart!
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 21, 2025, 09:21:02 PMOh absolutely not, I don't particularly like Winston, Wilson, or Rodgers. I am however more optimistic with Winston, than Jones, but we definitely need another Qb.
maybe Dart or Sanders will surprise me and start mid-season. Maybe the still sign Wilson and draft Hunter or Carter and work the second pick for a QB.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on March 21, 2025, 09:31:54 PMJameis is career 4.8 TD%, 3.5 INT%, 7.6 YPA.
Jones is 3.1 TD%, 2.1 INT%, 6.5 YPA.
I don't know how you can reasonably claim they're the same quarterback. Jameis is a gunslinger while Jones is a dink-and-dunk game manager (who lost his best asset in running due to injuries). Personally, I'd much rather watch Jameis air it out and turn it over than suffer Jones continually staring down his target and throwing behind the sticks. Both are, at best, bridge QBs in the end. At least with Winston you have the upside of letting Nabers, Slayton and Johnson make plays downfield to challenge the defense.
Either way they lose. This way they spend 8 million more. I still don't think they ride with Winston.
Quote from: Gman329 on March 21, 2025, 09:32:22 PMMostly, I'm just glad it's DONE! Now draft Hunter or Carter and trade up from 34 and grab Dart!
Well, at least they have a QB in the house besides Tommy.
Because he can a perfect bridge for Nabors..get him deep..throw the rock
sixty yards penalty maybe
I think about Nabors..omg ..he must happy
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 09:35:14 PMEither way they lose. This way they spend 8 million more. I still don't think they ride with Winston.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. We should not have cut Jones? We'd be paying him his full salary to ride the bench. Yeah, there's dead money involved now, but the alternative was insanity.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 09:35:14 PMEither way they lose. This way they spend 8 million more. I still don't think they ride with Winston.
By cutting him they saved his non-guaranteed salary. That was far more than $4MM per year.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 09:11:04 PMJones is the same QB as Winston. 13 TDs and 12 ints. Let's see what the next move is.
Just looking at the numbers, yeah their individual production is the same.
But you know very well you gotta look past the numbers. Moving the ball downfield, getting first downs and moving the chains keeps the defense off the field and fresh. The offense will be more dynamic with a guy who isn't gun shy, knows how to lead his receivers, and is comfortable running the offense.
Jones may do well in Indy. He hit his ceiling here. If Winston stays healthy, I think he'll have better numbers than 2022 Jones.
So basically, the Giants have allocated 22mil for QBs so far - 4mil for Winston, 18mil dead cap for Jones not to play for them.
I don't see them spending big bucks on another vet, it makes no sense.
Nabers wanted a "leader" in the next QB when he spoke to Florio a few weeks ago, is Winston that? Seemingly his former teammates are generous with their praise for him. But being popular doesn't make you a good leader.
I guarantee tonight guys are on the roster so excited...they know how good a guy he he is..and talented
Quote from: T200 on March 21, 2025, 09:46:14 PMJust looking at the numbers, yeah their individual production is the same.
But you know very well you gotta look past the numbers. Moving the ball downfield, getting first downs and moving the chains keeps the defense off the field and fresh. The offense will be more dynamic with a guy who isn't gun shy, knows how to lead his receivers, and is comfortable running the offense.
Jones may do well in Indy. He hit his ceiling here. If Winston stays healthy, I think he'll have better numbers than 2022 Jones.
I think that's an easy bet to take.
He had 2,100 yards, 13 TDs with 12 ints in 7 games. That's pacing 300 yards a game - plus the receivers are better here.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on March 21, 2025, 09:48:29 PMSo basically, the Giants have allocated 22mil for QBs so far - 4mil for Winston, 18mil dead cap for Jones not to play for them.
I don't see them spending big bucks on another vet, it makes no sense.
Nabers wanted a "leader" in the next QB when he spoke to Florio a few weeks ago, is Winston that? Seemingly his former teammates are generous with their praise for him. But being popular doesn't make you a good leader.
Yeah..so what? What's your point..do nothing? I'm happy with this..maybe I'm totally misguided..inept..but welcome Jameis
And they didn't spend big bucks..did the right thing. Sign jameis
Quote from: T200 on March 21, 2025, 09:46:14 PMJust looking at the numbers, yeah their individual production is the same.
But you know very well you gotta look past the numbers. Moving the ball downfield, getting first downs and moving the chains keeps the defense off the field and fresh. The offense will be more dynamic with a guy who isn't gun shy, knows how to lead his receivers, and is comfortable running the offense.
Jones may do well in Indy. He hit his ceiling here. If Winston stays healthy, I think he'll have better numbers than 2022 Jones.
I know I'm being unfair here. He's a likable guy and he has a live arm. I'm not as sure as you guys are that he can perform better than six QBs have in this Offense with that Oline. Earlier in his career he was somewhat mobile. Not anymore. I thought that Wilson at least had the ability to extend plays.
Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 21, 2025, 09:55:10 PMYeah..so what? What's your point..do nothing? I'm happy with this..maybe I'm totally misguided..inept..but welcome Jameis
I didn't say do nothing? Feel free to point out where I did. What I was saying is that I don't think they'll sign another vet. Considering there's lots of talk out there that they are still in on Rodgers/Wilson, it's a relevant point.
I would be happy with any of the vets signing. I think the starting QB next season will be better than last season if they signed Rodgers/Wilson and to a lesser extent Winston.
I wasn't keen on Flacco and Rodgers would have been my preference but Winston at 8mil for two years- they should roll with him, if they don't draft one this year, they can look next year.
Jameis...we want touchdowns came us..with you . welcome
He threw 8 INTs in his last 3 games. He'll get yards and some points and throw a lot of INTs. Less checkdowns
Great thing about Winston..he wanta New York. ..he is ready.to help this sad franchise wake up..plus spinning 60 hard bombs to nabors..he wants the spotlight..he does..and has tremendous talent still..that's an Daboll now.to save his job
Quote from: Philosophers on March 21, 2025, 10:19:16 PMHe threw 8 INTs in his last 3 games. He'll get yards and some points and throw a lot of INTs. Less checkdowns
Yes philosopher..throw it .. challenge the defense..yes he may fail..but let's try to win..
Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 21, 2025, 10:20:31 PMGreat thing about Winston..he wanta New York. ..he is ready.to help this sad franchise wake up..plus spinning 60 hard bombs to nabors..he wants the spotlight..he does..and has tremendous talent still..that's an Daboll now.to save his job
He was 2-5 as a starter last season. There were four games where they scored less than 15 points. When he was on he threw for a lot of yards in a few games, but he took a lot of sacks. Six against the Chargers and five against KC.
Lets hope for the best.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2025, 10:26:44 PMHe was 2-5 as a starter last season. There were four games where they scored less than 15 points. When he was on he threw for a lot of yards in a few games, but he took a lot of sacks. Six against the Chargers and five against KC.
Lets hope for the best.
we
That was with a terribly coached saints team . that had given up..oh my..but hardly the answer..okay .?? Last year in Cleveland ..he had a moment or too..okay..C'mon .but a decent bridge..no?? With Daboll inform of us his great QB development? Now? He has a great talent now .prove it
Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 21, 2025, 10:31:21 PMwe
That was with a terribly coached saints team . that had given up..oh my..but hardly the answer..okay .?? Last year in Cleveland ..he had a moment or too..okay..C'mon .but a decent bridge..no?? With Daboll inform of us his great QB development? Now? He has a great talent now .prove it
Sticking Dabs with Jones .... Now Winston .... It's starting to seem like he's the one who hasn't been getting a fair shake
Winston is 31 not 25.... We already know what his "talent" is ..... he is an explosive qb who is just as explosive in the turnover department
Dabs may be good with QBs but that doesn't mean he should have to work with this level of talent
If this is who the Giants are rolling with ... they've have to draft a QB .... And give Dabs and Joe at least one more season
Hoping this is it for QBs until the draft. Very glad with this choice and the money involved- it makes a lot of sense for where the Giants are right now, and hey at least the offense will be entertaining!!!! I can promise you this, there will be more passing TDs this year than we've been used to seeing.
Quote from: killarich on March 21, 2025, 10:50:24 PMSticking Dabs with Jones .... Now Winston .... It's starting to seem like he's the one who hasn't been getting a fair shake
Winston is 31 not 25.... We already know what his "talent" is ..... he is an explosive qb who is just as explosive in the turnover department
Dabs may be good with QBs but that doesn't mean he should have to work with this level of talent
If this is who the Giants are rolling with ... they've have to draft a QB .... And give Dabs and Joe at least one more season
Quite a retort .but not my point..the brass put them on themaeves..he's the best option.before the draft..when it will decide
But spider likes it..okay guys to chime in always.. disagree..say hmmm..that's what we're for.. good for Jameis.. welcome :Giants: :boldblue:
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on March 21, 2025, 09:52:25 PMI think that's an easy bet to take.
He had 2,100 yards, 13 TDs with 12 ints in 7 games. That's pacing 300 yards a game - plus the receivers are better here.
5100yds 31td 30int and some entertaining interviews and quotes
I am here for it at this point
LMAO.
There's a plan in place, huh?
For the Giants To Remain the Bottom dweller,....
Must be the plan.
Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on March 22, 2025, 12:37:54 AMLMAO.
There's a plan in place, huh?
For the Giants To Remain the Bottom dweller,....
Must be the plan.
What QB could the Giants sign in free agency that would single-handedly change them from being a "bottom dweller" in 2025? What would be the non-bottom dwelling plan you're in favor of, pray tell? My guess to the former is "none" and the latter is "I don't know" (or is not in realm of reality, which is the same thing).
It's a $4MM per year deal--literally 1.5% of the cap--for a veteran QB with starting experience who is well-regarded in locker rooms. Painting it as some travesty or failure of "plan" seems entirely misguided to me. And that conclusion is premised on the idea that the Giants are done at QB, despite still having plenty of room to sign another and having the draft ahead of them.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on March 22, 2025, 01:14:24 AMWhat QB could the Giants sign in free agency that would single-handedly change them from being a "bottom dweller" in 2025? What would be the non-bottom dwelling plan you're in favor of, pray tell? My guess to the former is "none" and the latter is "I don't know" (or is not in realm of reality, which is the same thing).
It's a $4MM per year deal--literally 1.5% of the cap--for a veteran QB with starting experience who is well-regarded in locker rooms. Painting it as some travesty or failure of "plan" seems entirely misguided to me. And that conclusion is premised on the idea that the Giants are done at QB, despite still having plenty of room to sign another and having the draft ahead of them.
You are spot on my friend . There was no QB out there that was going to make thec team playoff ready next year. Their schedule is brutal and Winston is better than anyone they had last year. They are going to draft a QB , hopefully not with the third pick and go on. Their FA signings have strengthen the team and maybe there is a legitimate plan in place.
By drafting Hunter, Carter or Graham will add to making the teram better for the future .
I am shocked Mara signed off on this. I thought Mara was pretty rigid around character stuff. Winston's past is dark, to say the absolute least.
Aside from the above considerations (which are non-trivial in my mind if you believe in the Giants' normally squeaky-clean image), I like this move as the contract is peanuts and Winston gives you the big arm and the swashbuckling, downfield style that our offense sorely lacked with Jones and Tommy D. You're signing up for a lot of bonehead INTs but also a lot of big plays. With 'Leek needing to be fed the ball as much as possible that makes sense at this point given the alternatives.
A lot of the INTs will be downfield too, I suspect. Much better to get picked on a 50 yard bomb than 6 yards in front of the line of scrimmage.
No way they should have kept Jones. Yes, by cutting him they ate some dead cap, but cutting Jones plus adding Winston is less money out of pocket than keeping Jones and adding nobody. They saved plenty of money by cutting him despite the dead cap. Maybe Jones can be better somewhere else, but what we saw from him the last two seasons is vastly inferior to Winston. And there is simply no world where Jones is worth $40mm per.
I don't know what the next move is, but I hope it's not to also sign Rodgers as I don't think he's worth what he's going to get paid and I don't really think they need his diva act. Clearly they're not done. If they have a strong view on Cam Ward and want to trade up, I can live with that but it would not be my preferred move. I think I prefer that to drafting Shedeur though. Somehow ending up with Dart would probably be my first choice of remaining moves.
I think this is the right move for the bridge QB. He is a great locker room guy and brings infectious energy. He will help lift the mood and be a positive influence temperamentally on any draft pick. Personally I still expect us to add another veteran as additional insurance, maybe Flacco. Then draft a guy. Not necessarily at 3. Then chuck it all at a wall in camp and see what sticks. In the circumstances it is probably the most sensible approach.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on March 22, 2025, 01:14:24 AMWhat QB could the Giants sign in free agency that would single-handedly change them from being a "bottom dweller" in 2025? What would be the non-bottom dwelling plan you're in favor of, pray tell? My guess to the former is "none" and the latter is "I don't know" (or is not in realm of reality, which is the same thing).
It's a $4MM per year deal--literally 1.5% of the cap--for a veteran QB with starting experience who is well-regarded in locker rooms. Painting it as some travesty or failure of "plan" seems entirely misguided to me. And that conclusion is premised on the idea that the Giants are done at QB, despite still having plenty of room to sign another and having the draft ahead of them.
Pathetic choice in Winston. Doesn't even belong in NFL.
https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1903295974753050802
Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on March 22, 2025, 06:59:31 AMPathetic choice in Winston. Doesn't even belong in NFL.
I don't know that I'd go that far. Winston in 2024 was decisively better than Jones in either 2024 and 2023. We got Winston at $4m/yr for 2 years, while Jones was paid $14m.
Winston is getting paid mid level backup money with some incentives tied in. I'm not high on Winston's abilities either, but he does some things that we have been missing, and even if you're really down on him, $4mm/yr for a QB is absolute pocket lint. The Giants got a very good price here.
For a bridge/backup you can do plenty worse than Winston.
I also think it's fair to say the Giants have had enough of dink and dunk QBs and want/need someone who can air it out more.
https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1903281117286879351
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 22, 2025, 07:05:06 AMhttps://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1903295974753050802
YAWP.
Giants Ain't Going Anywhere Anytime soon with that coach and with that front office and mebbe with That ownership.
Giant Joke.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 22, 2025, 07:07:20 AMI don't know that I'd go that far. Winston in 2024 was decisively better than Jones in either 2024 and 2023. We got Winston at $4m/yr for 2 years, while Jones was paid $14m.
Winston is getting paid mid level backup money with some incentives tied in. I'm not high on Winston's abilities either, but he does some things that we have been missing, and even if you're really down on him, $4mm/yr for a QB is absolute pocket lint. The Giants got a very good price here.
For a bridge/backup you can do plenty worse than Winston.
I also think it's fair to say the Giants have had enough of dink and dunk QBs and want/need someone who can air it out more.
Dude...
Believeland Clowns cut Winston.
Nuf said.
https://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1903262254294036620
https://x.com/AlbertBreer/status/1903246668956364886
I guess Winston was the best we were going to do at this point. Gotta wonder what was the story with Wilson? Would have liked him more as a mentor for a young QB but then, he wouldn't have come as cheaply.
Happy it's finally done and now we turn to the big question: Jameis is the bridge to......who?
It's clear to me Winston was signed to be our backup QB. Seems they could be all in on Rodgers.
Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on March 22, 2025, 07:12:02 AMDude...
Believeland Clowns cut Winston.
Nuf said.
Not sure your point. Salvageable players get cut by teams all the time.
Nobody here is saying Winston is good. He's not. What he probably is is reasonable valuable for the money, which is effectively a pittance for an NFL QB.
The Giants cut Jones, and a better team than us decided to pay Jones more than three times what we're paying Winston pre-incentives. Do you believe Jones is more than three times better than Winston? If so, can you provide concrete rationale for that opinion?
He also wasn't cut. He's a free agent.
Quote from: Jersey Heel on March 22, 2025, 08:06:44 AMHe also wasn't cut. He's a free agent.
Exactly. So he's in the same boat as Wilson. Rodgers is the one who was cut.
Winston is no savior. We'll be under 0.500 for sure. Let's just keep building the team around the QB position and draft a QB without trading and giving up draft capital. That should be the plan, even try to add an additional pick or two if possible. Goal: get 4 starters out of draft including at least 1 starting OL, a DT or Edge and a WR.
If you want an 18-minute (less if you speed up the video) narrating of Winston's career right up until he signed with the Browns, this video is it
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 22, 2025, 07:13:22 AMhttps://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1903262254294036620
They milked it but all valid points that I brought up last night too. He's not saving jobs. There has to be another QB to add to this room. If they move up to take Ward, it's a huge mistake to give up valuable picks. I can see them bringing in Flacco and starting him, then have Winston as the backup and Draft a QB with one of the first two round picks.
Putting Rodgers aside because I doubt he would come here, the QB that would have given them a chance at a winning record, was Wilson. Mara's mandate was to win this season. Dart or Sanders will be available at three.
If they are going to rely on starting Winston this season, knowing that every QB in this Draft Class is not near NFL ready? Well then they may get another year to develop the Rookie. But If future HOF QB Guru Sean Payton couldn't fix Winston, don't expect Dabs to do it.
For those of you doing victory laps with this signing, I encourage you to go watch his 2024 game film. Not the highlights.
The 33rd Team
@The33rdTeamFB
46 QBs have played in at least 100 games since 2000
Where Jameis Winston ranks in:
YPA: 11th
Attempts per Pass TD: 15th
Attempts per INT: 45th
Explosive Pass %: 4th
Inaccuracy %: 35th
EPA on DBs: 28th
https://x.com/geneclemons/status/1903438843518316917
https://x.com/geneclemons/status/1903439204173894129
https://x.com/geneclemons/status/1903439488333820398
Quote from: Trench on March 22, 2025, 07:54:49 AMIt's clear to me Winston was signed to be our backup QB. Seems they could be all in on Rodgers.
Couldn't possibly see how they also sign Rodgers now. I have that as dead. They will draft a QB and now have the ability to let that guy sit and learn. If anything it allows them the luxury of taking a guy like Milroe in round 2 if they think a year with Daboll could help his throwing issues the way he did with Allen.
https://x.com/JustinPenik/status/1903445308635226292
Quote from: Gmo11 on March 22, 2025, 09:45:40 AMCouldn't possibly see how they also sign Rodgers now. I have that as dead. They will draft a QB and now have the ability to let that guy sit and learn. If anything it allows them the luxury of taking a guy like Milroe in round 2 if they think a year with Daboll could help his throwing issues the way he did with Allen.
From the beginning of this I haven't seen it happening and it has more to do with Rodgers than the Giants. He is looking to add to his legacy in his last couple of years of playing. Unless he thinks he can lead this team to a deep playoff run, I don't see why he would be interested.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 22, 2025, 03:32:07 AMI am shocked Mara signed off on this. I thought Mara was pretty rigid around character stuff. Winston's past is dark, to say the absolute least.
Yes, we passed on Parsons to draft Toney instead because of Parsons character issues...How did that one pan out ???
After two of the dreariest, least enterprising seasons in Giants history his trademark mix of maddening unpredictability, occasional brilliance and baffling stupidity will at least not be boring.
If he has to start 17 (which I do not believe is the hope) the floor is likely 5-6 wins.
Best case Daboll and Kafka coach and scheme him to a 1.5:1 TD:Int (rather than 1:1) and a ceiling of 8-9 wins.
He is known as a positive presence, bringing passion, energy and confidence. That should help lift the locker room mood. It might make it easier for others to perform.
Off the field he is an equally complex mix of past predatory sexual behaviour and amazing charitable work with many strong friendships.
Nothing about him is vanilla and the bad is very bad. It is entirely understandable why some are not keen. It is also clear why others see reasons for hope.
The biggest 'positive' I can see is that he is a very long way outside Mara's historic comfort zone. This suggests Schoen and Daboll will not have one hand tied behind their backs by Mara's 'expectations' when we draft.
Whatever we think individually, here we are. Welcome aboard the 2025 New York Giants. We might still be very bad. We might actually be watchable.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 22, 2025, 03:32:07 AMI am shocked Mara signed off on this. I thought Mara was pretty rigid around character stuff. Winston's past is dark, to say the absolute least.
DB: Desperation?
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 22, 2025, 10:42:47 AMDB: Desperation?
The best player in Giant's history had character issues.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 21, 2025, 08:36:11 PMLet's see, who looks most like Winston in the draft:
BIG ARM, throws off platform, gunslinger mentality.
Everyone:
The full text of this post by
@andrew_nyGiants appears on page two of this thread. In it, among other things, he opines that the QB most like Winston in this draft is Ward. I believe Dart is more like Winston (considering only issues directly related to his arm and issues directly involving throwing the ball, which EXCLUDES overall athletic talent, escape ability, and running/scrambling ability).
@Ed Vette or anyone else who has studied this year's group of QBs - do you agree?
Lost in the shuffle of this long thread and the numerous other issues raised by Andrew's post is the IMO very interesting thought which underlies the short portion of his post quoted above.
Who believes that the choice of Winston might shed some light on which QB the Giants most prefer in the upcoming draft? If so, which QB do you believe might be the Giants' top choice, considering that they signed Winston?
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 22, 2025, 10:42:47 AMDB: Desperation?
Bob,
In one word, that is probably the best explanation possible.
I also suspect Mara wants avoid inserting himself in this offseason in any way. I think he wants a clear path to be able to fire Schoen and Daboll with a clean conscience if 2025 is another disaster. It's hard to feel that way if you are vetoing players your guys want. So maybe that is also why he is willing to compromise a bit on his normally stringent conduct standards.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 22, 2025, 11:13:04 AMBob,
In one word, that is probably the best explanation possible.
I also suspect Mara wants avoid inserting himself in this offseason in any way. I think he wants a clear path to be able to fire Schoen and Daboll with a clean conscience if 2025 is another disaster. It's hard to feel that way if you are vetoing players your guys want. So maybe that is also why he is willing to compromise a bit on his normally stringent conduct standards.
We usually agree on many things, Dave, but I feel differently on the above (respectfully, of course).
1) I don't think desperation has anything to do with this signing. They're paying less-than-standard backup QB money for a guy who will very likely start for half the season. That is smart.
And in an era where unanimous feelings run short, there is universal praise for the type of teammate and locker room presence that Winston is. For a young team, that is worth its weight in gold coming from a veteran QB.
2) I don't believe for a second that Mara is the type of person who needs secondary validation for anything he does. If he wants to clean house, he will clean house. Regardless of how active / inactive he is in personnel decisions. Men in his position don't need the justification of a clean conscience.
The reality is, this year was always a lost cause. So my primary objective for the offseason was to not overcommit in any contract with a vet QB, not sign anyone who will set the franchise back anymore, and hopefully not win too many games only to not make playoff and have a worse draft pick. Mission accomplished across the board with this signing.
https://youtu.be/ysUYo6FfDgY?feature=shared
The good and the ugly
Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on March 22, 2025, 07:12:02 AMDude...
Believeland Clowns cut Winston.
Nuf said.
I believe you are new here, but we usually don't address our fellow posters as 'Dude'. We may not agree on thbut wsure try to be as friendly and courteous as we can to each other.
Forget that 'Dude' stuff.
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 22, 2025, 11:03:39 AMEveryone:
The full text of this post by @andrew_nyGiants appears on page two of this thread. In it, among other things, he opines that the QB most like Winston in this draft is Ward. I believe Dart is more like Winston (considering only issues directly related to his arm and issues directly involving throwing the ball, which EXCLUDES overall athletic talent, escape ability, and running/scrambling ability). @Ed Vette or anyone else who has studied this year's group of QBs - do you agree?
Lost in the shuffle of this long thread and the numerous other issues raised by Andrew's post is the IMO very interesting thought which underlies the short portion of his post quoted above.
Who believes that the choice of Winston might shed some light on which QB the Giants most prefer in the upcoming draft? If so, which QB do you believe might be the Giants' top choice, considering that they signed Winston?
Bob
In terms of putting the ball in harms way at the end of the season and forcing throws in murky waters? Perhaps but its a small sample of Dart's body of work. Winston has more velocity in his throws than Dart and Ward is more inaccurate, while Winston is a gunslinger. I don't know that we need comparisons. Let's hope for them they don't wind up with a legacy of being unable to achieve their potential.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on March 22, 2025, 11:42:32 AMWe usually agree on many things, Dave, but I feel differently on the above (respectfully, of course).
1) I don't think desperation has anything to do with this signing. They're paying less-than-standard backup QB money for a guy who will very likely start for half the season. That is smart.
And in an era where unanimous feelings run short, there is universal praise for the type of teammate and locker room presence that Winston is. For a young team, that is worth its weight in gold coming from a veteran QB.
2) I don't believe for a second that Mara is the type of person who needs secondary validation for anything he does. If he wants to clean house, he will clean house. Regardless of how active / inactive he is in personnel decisions. Men in his position don't need the justification of a clean conscience.
The reality is, this year was always a lost cause. So my primary objective for the offseason was to not overcommit in any contract with a vet QB, not sign anyone who will set the franchise back anymore, and hopefully not win too many games only to not make playoff and have a worse draft pick. Mission accomplished across the board with this signing.
Stringer,
Very good points across the board, as usual.
To clarify (and I realize this was not clear in my post), I don't think the move to sign Winston itself was desperate. I meant more that Mara is in a general state of desperation after however many completely humiliating seasons it has now been in the last dozen or so years. And my comment was more that desperation was probably why he was choosing to deviate from his normally strident stance of not allowing anyone on the team with any sort of question marks in the character department. I do not feel that the signing itself was desperate. I agree with you that it was smart. Earlier in this thread I praised it from a value for money point of view.
On point number two we differ a little bit. I don't disagree that Mara is capable of acting firmly and decisively whenever he feels he needs to. We have all seen him do that. I do however think he has a sense of values, and I suspect (though cannot prove) that he was very involved in the decision to sign Jones. To what precise extent that was the case I don't know, but I am highly confident that, at the bare minimum, he influenced that decision at least somewhat. I believe that may be the reason that pushed him over the fence towards the side of not firing at least one of Daboll and Schoen after last season.
So if the above is mostly true, then it would follow that he would want to lay off this offseason as much as possible given 2025 is clearly an ultimatum year for Daboll and Schoen. If he meddles at all, it just makes it harder to fire people. Even if it's not about his conscience, once someone is fired, there is nothing stopping them from revealing later the sort of work environment they were in at their former place of employment. So it's just not smart business to force decisions to do or not do things on your managers and then fire them when those decisions end up being bad ones. If nothing else, I assume Mara at least understands that.
Quote from: Gmo11 on March 22, 2025, 09:45:40 AMCouldn't possibly see how they also sign Rodgers now. I have that as dead. They will draft a QB and now have the ability to let that guy sit and learn. If anything it allows them the luxury of taking a guy like Milroe in round 2 if they think a year with Daboll could help his throwing issues the way he did with Allen.
I agree that the Rodgers quest is dead......but not at all interested in embarking on a Milroe project, which has long odds of success. Draft Milroe and I fear we'll be right back in this same spot four years from now, with four more years of misery and likely another round of coach/GM behind us.
Yes, that possibility exists with any QB you draft but I'd hate to try that much of a long shot at this point. Trading up from 34 for Dart, if at all possible, would be my preference and if that doesn't work out, wait until next year, when we figure to be drafting pretty high again.
Striking out with the 3rd overall pick is a killer. We saw what the 6th overall did to us.
Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on March 22, 2025, 07:10:46 AMYAWP.
Giants Ain't Going Anywhere Anytime soon with that coach and with that front office and mebbe with That ownership.
Giant Joke.
Hey, this is a Giants fan site. We don't need to wear rose colored glasses, but we also don't need to be crapped on either
Yawn 🥱
Quote from: gregf on March 22, 2025, 12:57:26 PMHey, this is a Giants fan site. We don't need to wear rose colored glasses, but we also don't need to be crapped on either
You beat me to it.
Quote from: Gman329 on March 22, 2025, 12:42:03 PMI agree that the Rodgers quest is dead......but not at all interested in embarking on a Milroe project, which has long odds of success. Draft Milroe and I fear we'll be right back in this same spot four years from now, with four more years of misery and likely another round of coach/GM behind us.
Yes, that possibility exists with any QB you draft but I'd hate to try that much of a long shot at this point. Trading up from 34 for Dart, if at all possible, would be my preference and if that doesn't work out, wait until next year, when we figure to be drafting pretty high again.
Striking out with the 3rd overall pick is a killer. We saw what the 6th overall did to us.
Milroe is a fantastic athlete, mature highly disciplined, smart kid. Bet on those kinds.
Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on March 22, 2025, 12:59:57 PMYawn 🥱
Well, that didn't take long. "Dude" may have set a record.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on March 22, 2025, 11:42:32 AMThe reality is, this year was always a lost cause. So my primary objective for the offseason was to not overcommit in any contract with a vet QB, not sign anyone who will set the franchise back anymore, and hopefully not win too many games only to not make playoff and have a worse draft pick. Mission accomplished across the board with this signing.
I completely agree with this take. Jameis was the guy I wanted. Bringing in Russ or Rodgers to win 7-9 games and still not have your long-term QB figured out gets you nowhere. With Jameis we can open up the offense even if he'd infuriate with some bad decisions.
Quote from: Trench on March 22, 2025, 07:54:49 AMIt's clear to me Winston was signed to be our backup QB. Seems they could be all in on Rodgers.
One thing is clear but the other only seems...? That may be what you want although I hope not as it's hardly sensible.
Cheers!
Jordan Vanek
@JordanVanekDFS
17 Game Averages
Eli Manning
Y/G: 241.6
TD: 26
INT: 18
Jameis Winston
Y/G: 230.7
TD: 25
INT: 18
Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on March 22, 2025, 07:12:02 AMDude...
Believeland Clowns cut Winston.
Nuf said.
They didnt cut Winston Dude. Winston was a free agent this offseason and because of their horrible cap situation inwhich they had to restructure Watson to even have money to spend, they didn't Resign him. The Browns traded for Kenny Pickett who has a cap hit of 2 million, they did this because they have no money and couldn't afford Winston.
Might help you to Google things before you speak on them, just a thought.
So I'm starting to wonder what the next move is. Many are speculating that Jameis is the bridge and we're drafting a QB at 3. I'm not sure about that. I'm still hopeful the giants think drafting a QB is for 2026, and if so, it's in their best interest to have another QB in their back pocket (Flacco maybe) that they tell they'll sign right after the draft.
In this way, other teams think the giants are going QB at three and which maybe opens up trade options for us, OR, having Ward and Sanders go 1 and 2 either to the Titans and Browns, or a trade up... which drops the player we really would love to us at three.
Time will tell.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 22, 2025, 01:27:10 PMWell, that didn't take long. "Dude" may have set a record.
Quickest ban in BBH history?
Impressive.
Quote from: ViewFromSection129 on March 22, 2025, 02:46:20 PMSo I'm starting to wonder what the next move is. Many are speculating that Jameis is the bridge and we're drafting a QB at 3. I'm not sure about that. I'm still hopeful the giants think drafting a QB is for 2026, and if so, it's in their best interest to have another QB in their back pocket (Flacco maybe) that they tell they'll sign right after the draft.
In this way, other teams think the giants are going QB at three and which maybe opens up trade options for us, OR, having Ward and Sanders go 1 and 2 either to the Titans and Browns, or a trade up... which drops the player we really would love to us at three.
Time will tell.
If Sanders doesn't fall to 3 and we don't trade up to 1 for Ward
My draft day dream scenario would be a team behind us maybe like 2-4 spots behind us really wants Hunter or Carter
We trade back .... Get maybe a second rounder or third rounder, draft Mason Graham in the first round . Package the extra pick, the 3rd round comp pick and second rounder to move back into first if Dart is still available
Graham is near one of the top prospects and also fills a need
Quote from: Philosophers on March 22, 2025, 01:13:37 PMMilroe is a fantastic athlete, mature highly disciplined, smart kid. Bet on those kinds.
.
I'm sure that's all true but if I have to bet, I'd rather bet on accuracy. I'm just not convinced that can be taught.
I like the signing, smart price too. I'm guessing if the Giants are sold on one of top 3 QBs, they go all in at 3. If not, Winston allows them to go BPA and look to round 2 for a QB.
I doubt the Giants are looking at Sanders with this signing. These two QBs are in no way comparable. They would have to design two different Offensive Playbooks if they both start this year.
Quote from: Gman329 on March 22, 2025, 03:10:25 PM.
I'm sure that's all true but if I have to bet, I'd rather bet on accuracy. I'm just not convinced that can be taught.
Josh Allen completed 56% of his passes in college. Was very inaccurate. Got it fixed in the pros.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 22, 2025, 04:39:58 PMJosh Allen completed 56% of his passes in college. Was very inaccurate. Got it fixed in the pros.
Not exactly. He got fixed with a company called Biometrics and Chris Hess. I've been preaching this for a while now, and I'll share it with you since you're a true student of the game.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 22, 2025, 04:39:58 PMJosh Allen completed 56% of his passes in college. Was very inaccurate. Got it fixed in the pros.
Joe,
Despite common perceptions that Josh Allen significantly "fixed" his accuracy issues, he is still among the lower-tier passers when it comes to raw completion percentage.
Completion Percentage: In the 2022 season, Allen posted a completion rate of 63.3%, placing him 25th among qualifying quarterbacks. This figure exactly mirrors his seven-year career average, reinforcing the notion that Allen's completion percentage is stagnating around that mark rather than displaying a clear, sustained upward trajectory.
Historical Trend: Allen has struggled with subpar accuracy for most of his career. Outside of a standout year in 2020, he has routinely ranked in the bottom 10 in terms of completion percentage. This pattern suggests that 2020 may have been an outlier rather than a paradigm shift in his overall ability to deliver pinpoint passes.
I highlight these points in the context that completions percentage is an overstated metric, which I think was your broader point. Despite Allen's lower-than-average accuracy in comparison to many of his contemporaries, he still a top 3 QB because of the following:
Playmaking Ability: Allen's size, athleticism, and knack for improvisation offset his lackluster completion rates. His ability to extend plays, scramble for first downs, and throw on the run often compensates for missed throws in the short game. Quarterbacks with high completion percentages but minimal playmaking capacity frequently fail to replicate Allen's explosive impact on a game (see DJ).
Arm Strength: With arguably one of the strongest arms in the NFL, Allen's downfield vision creates scoring opportunities that would be difficult for a more accurate but less powerful passer to exploit. His deep-ball threat places enormous pressure on defenses, opening up intermediate routes and running lanes for both him and his skill-position players.
Red Zone Efficiency: Although completion percentage is a convenient statistic, Allen's success inside the red zone speaks to his broader capabilities. He routinely finds ways to convert key drives and produce touchdowns, whether through designed quarterback runs, broken-play scrambles, or riskier passes that only a QB with his velocity can attempt.
Intangibles: Beyond the numbers, Allen's leadership, competitive drive, and ability to rally his teammates are difficult to quantify but significantly impact the Bills' overall success. These qualities often outweigh raw accuracy, especially when combined with Allen's capacity to make plays most other quarterbacks can't. This is what DJ was lacking and something very difficult to measure.
I would draft any QB with those attributes, regardless of their completion percentage.
https://x.com/pff_moo/status/1903531442438893976?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 22, 2025, 02:47:26 PMQuickest ban in BBH history?
Impressive.
That's no fun to ban so early! It's quite fun working up people that feel the need to come into other teams forums. People like that where their whole existence revolves around trolling people are the first ones that start crying when you call them out on their ridiculous takes. Then they have to come up from their hideout in their basement and complain to their mom.
Also not sure which fan base he was apart of but we seem to get a ton of Packers fans in here compared to other groups.
Quote from: kingm56 on March 22, 2025, 05:32:40 PMJoe,
Despite common perceptions that Josh Allen significantly "fixed" his accuracy issues, he is still among the lower-tier passers when it comes to raw completion percentage.
Completion Percentage: In the 2022 season, Allen posted a completion rate of 63.3%, placing him 25th among qualifying quarterbacks. This figure exactly mirrors his seven-year career average, reinforcing the notion that Allen's completion percentage is stagnating around that mark rather than displaying a clear, sustained upward trajectory.
Historical Trend: Allen has struggled with subpar accuracy for most of his career. Outside of a standout year in 2020, he has routinely ranked in the bottom 10 in terms of completion percentage. This pattern suggests that 2020 may have been an outlier rather than a paradigm shift in his overall ability to deliver pinpoint passes.
I highlight these points in the context that completions percentage is an overstated metric, which I think was your broader point. Despite Allen's lower-than-average accuracy in comparison to many of his contemporaries, he still a top 3 QB because of the following:
Playmaking Ability: Allen's size, athleticism, and knack for improvisation offset his lackluster completion rates. His ability to extend plays, scramble for first downs, and throw on the run often compensates for missed throws in the short game. Quarterbacks with high completion percentages but minimal playmaking capacity frequently fail to replicate Allen's explosive impact on a game (see DJ).
Arm Strength: With arguably one of the strongest arms in the NFL, Allen's downfield vision creates scoring opportunities that would be difficult for a more accurate but less powerful passer to exploit. His deep-ball threat places enormous pressure on defenses, opening up intermediate routes and running lanes for both him and his skill-position players.
Red Zone Efficiency: Although completion percentage is a convenient statistic, Allen's success inside the red zone speaks to his broader capabilities. He routinely finds ways to convert key drives and produce touchdowns, whether through designed quarterback runs, broken-play scrambles, or riskier passes that only a QB with his velocity can attempt.
Intangibles: Beyond the numbers, Allen's leadership, competitive drive, and ability to rally his teammates are difficult to quantify but significantly impact the Bills' overall success. These qualities often outweigh raw accuracy, especially when combined with Allen's capacity to make plays most other quarterbacks can't. This is what DJ was lacking and something very difficult to measure.
I would draft any QB with those attributes, regardless of their completion percentage.
Great post Matt. Lots of great info. I never said or believe he is among the more accurate QBs but just that he got his numbers into a more acceptable area then his other attributes you noted make him top notch. I suspect he takes more downfield shots which generally are completed at a lower rate.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 22, 2025, 06:27:05 PMGreat post Matt. Lots of great info. I never said or believe he is among the more accurate QBs but just that he got his numbers into a more acceptable area then his other attributes you noted make him top notch. I suspect he takes more downfield shots which generally are completed at a lower rate.
Fair point, Joe, and one I agree with. You and I very much aligned on what the Giants should regarding the QB going forward.
Some hating on Jameis..big deal..great value
I am thanking the football gods for this move. Man did we dodge a bullet. Winston is a great guy and a team player who won't demand the time, money, or constant attention of Rodgers or Wilson. And ability-wise he's about on par with both of them at this point.
Now let's draft the right QB that can sit and learn from him, and maybe this franchise can finally get back on its feet.
Do we really want our rookie Qb learning from Winston?
Schoen has made two blunders in his time with the Giants. 1) Not trading Mckinney/Barkley when he had the chance to do so. 2) Letting Tyrod walk over 2 million, he is the perfect vet, mentor, and placeholder for Dabolls offense.
Watched Bobby's breakdown of Jameis...and he is too aggressive with his arm..no doubt..not checking down. He has big boy skills throwing..he likes dig routes over the middle..and bombs away..
He's been gotten at an incredibly cheap price and will add swag to a dead offense..pending..the draft..
Can Jamais Winston run? Can he scramble ?
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 22, 2025, 11:35:50 PMCan Jamais Winston run? Can he scramble ?
Really not that much..but has pocket off platform ability..can slide, throw on the move..but definitely more of a big boy thrower type..Duante Culpepper comes to mind in his case. He has a huge frame..big dude.
Ok we signed Winston. We need to draft a QB. Let's rebuild this offense now with more OL and weapons. I want a feared WR2 with speed and size, a RB who can take to the house and 2 OL, a tackle and a guard.
New York Post's Paul Schwartz joins Dexter Henry to detail what Jameis Winston signing with the Giants means for New York's draft strategy and if Winston will compete to be the starting quarterback.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 23, 2025, 08:58:02 AMNew York Post's Paul Schwartz joins Dexter Henry to detail what Jameis Winston signing with the Giants means for New York's draft strategy and if Winston will compete to be the starting quarterback.
I agree with everything PS said except his man crush on Shedeur Sanders and discounting of Jaxson Dart.
4.7 mil guaranteed is a one year backup QB salary.
Winston can start if they need him to but he's not leading this team to a winning record.
He says they can't draft Dart at three. Ok, it's debatable. So, if Sanders is there at 3, there are options to pick Carter or Hunter. Or trade down with the Jets and pick Dart and get their second and TYs or next years third. Worst case scenario is move up from the second round for a QB.
If they really want a Franchise QB and Dart is there at three, I can't see them passing on a perfect match with Winston.
I'd still think they should sign Wilson if they want a winning record this year, but I don't care. 2025 is a transition year and a throwaway. Unless its a dumpster fire, they both get another mulligan.
Jameis Winston is the Funniest NFL player ever, by accident 😂
Quote from: Philosophers on March 23, 2025, 07:45:37 AMOk we signed Winston. We need to draft a QB. Let's rebuild this offense now with more OL and weapons. I want a feared WR2 with speed and size, a RB who can take to the house and 2 OL, a tackle and a guard.
And where are you getting all that ? We need a DT more . Someone who can line up next to Dexter and be effective , MASON GRAHAM ? Stephon Diggs if he has recovered would be a perfect complement to Nabers
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 23, 2025, 10:45:51 AMAnd where are you getting all that ? We need a DT more . Someone who can line up next to Dexter and be effective , MASON GRAHAM ? Stephon Diggs if he has recovered would be a perfect complement to Nabers
We struggle to score 17 points in a game. It's way more about improving the offense. BTW I love Graham.
Hunter at 3 for WR2, a QB in round 2, then Tate Ratledge and Ozzy Trapillo in round 3. RJ Harvey in round 5 at RB. You can have round 4 for DT. Maybe Jordan Phillips from Maryland.
Option 2 is we take Graham at 3 instead of Hunter and keep my selections above but hunt for a WR around round 4 like Tai Felton from Maryland. He's 6'1" 183 pounds, runs a 4.37 40 and plays fast and angry and runs good routes. Reminds me of Zay Flowers. He's thin and is not a great blocker but I think those can be improved.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 23, 2025, 11:32:02 AMWe struggle to score 17 points in a game. It's way more about improving the offense. BTW I love Graham.
Hunter at 3 for WR2, a QB in round 2, then Tate Ratledge and Ozzy Trapillo in round 3. RJ Harvey in round 5 at RB. You can have round 4 for DT. Maybe Jordan Phillips from Maryland.
If you get Mason Graham you can become an all around elite defense that possibly holds teams to 21 points or less in most games
Offensively we struggled due to bad qb play and injuries to the o-line
If Winston is our qb our offense will def be moving down the field .... We just have to hope we have New Orleans Winston who was pulled back a little by a good coach
If we miss out on Ward and sanders ... the smartest thing to do would be to go bAck a few spots .... (If someone wants Carter or Hunter that bad) still get Graham .... Have possibly the best front seven in the league and a solid secondary .... And maybe package the extra pick to move up and get Dart or something
Defense had two flaws last year.... Bad secondary play ... improved .... And run defense .... Graham would fix that
Fully agree that we need to put someone next to Dex......but I've read that there are some red flags on Graham, with some saying his motor doesn't always run at top speed.
Tbinking they want to guarantee the 1st pick next year. Going with DeVito and Lock would have been too obvious, but this should accomplish the same goal.
Quote from: kingm56 on March 22, 2025, 05:32:40 PMDespite common perceptions that Josh Allen significantly "fixed" his accuracy issues, he is still among the lower-tier passers when it comes to raw completion percentage.
. . .
I would draft any QB with those attributes, regardless of their completion percentage.
To your first point, a 63% completion % against pro defenses is a very very substantial improvement over a 56% completion % against college defenses. So I would say the common perception is correct.
As to the second point I quoted, if Josh Allen's completion percentage as a pro was the same as it was in college, or even went lower, as could have been expected due the huge increase in the quality of the defenses he would be facing, he would have been a complete bust despite his other sterling qualities.
He didn't need to improve to Drew Brees level of accuracy, he had to improve to reasonable NFL levels of accuracy. Which, what everyone except Ed, including me, was saying at the time was extremely unlikely. And, as your post demonstrates, he did improve his accuracy to the point that his other qualities allowed him to become an excellent QB. But if his accuracy hadn't improved to the point it did he would be no such thing.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 23, 2025, 12:37:20 PMTo your first point, a 63% completion % against pro defenses is a very very substantial improvement over a 56% completion % against college defenses. So I would say the common perception is correct.
As to the second point I quoted, if Josh Allen's completion percentage as a pro was the same as it was in college, or even went lower, as could have been expected due the huge increase in the quality of the defenses he would be facing, he would have been a complete bust despite his other sterling qualities.
He didn't need to improve to Drew Brees level of accuracy, he had to improve to reasonable NFL levels of accuracy. Which, what everyone except Ed, including me, was saying at the time was extremely unlikely. And, as your post demonstrates, he did improve his accuracy to the point that his other qualities allowed him to become an excellent QB. But if his accuracy hadn't improved to the point it did he would be no such thing.
Throwaways and drops to the amount of attempts is something to take into consideration too. It can reflect a net completion percentage of 72%. On target throws, and Interception % is another metric. I wonder what some QBs stats would look like if they had the weapons and Offensive Lines some of these QB have. Its all relative.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2024/passing_advanced.htm
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 23, 2025, 01:11:59 PMThrowaways and drops to the amount of attempts is something to take into consideration too. It can reflect a net completion percentage of 72%. On target throws, and Interception % is another metric. I wonder what some QBs stats would look like if they had the weapons and Offensive Lines some of these QB have. Its all relative.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2024/passing_advanced.htm
I also like to compare Receiver Success % to the QB completion %. Maybe the League MVP isn't as bad as one stat makes him appear to be.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2024/receiving.htm
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 23, 2025, 09:45:13 AMI agree with everything PS said except his man crush on Shedeur Sanders and discounting of Jaxson Dart.
4.7 mil guaranteed is a one year backup QB salary.
Winston can start if they need him to but he's not leading this team to a winning record.
He says they can't draft Dart at three. Ok, it's debatable. So, if Sanders is there at 3, there are options to pick Carter or Hunter. Or trade down with the Jets and pick Dart and get their second and TYs or next years third. Worst case scenario is move up from the second round for a QB.
If they really want a Franchise QB and Dart is there at three, I can't see them passing on a perfect match with Winston.
I'd still think they should sign Wilson if they want a winning record this year, but I don't care. 2025 is a transition year and a throwaway. Unless its a dumpster fire, they both get another mulligan.
" A Winning Record this year if they sign Wilson " That would mean the Giants would have to go 9-8. Do you honestly believe with their 2025 schedule they coukld win 6 more games with Wilson as QB ?
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 24, 2025, 05:49:45 AM" A Winning Record this year if they sign Wilson " That would mean the Giants would have to go 9-8. Do you honestly believe with their 2025 schedule they coukld win 6 more games with Wilson as QB ?
Yes.
I cannot fault your optimism Ed. It certainly exceeds mine.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 23, 2025, 01:11:59 PMThrowaways and drops to the amount of attempts is something to take into consideration too.
Ed: That aspect of Winston has always been a "mystery" to me.
When you're accurate but have "too many" INT's there seems to be only one explanation that makes sense.
You are easy for the defense to fool. You are falling into too many traps set by crafty safeties, corners and linebackers, as well as too many disguises devised by defensive coordinators. Doesn't say much for the guy, in general, but at least he wasn't an overly expensive acquisition, and I certainly wish him well.
Bob
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 24, 2025, 06:20:38 AMYes.
They play Dallas , Eagles and Commanders twice. Then, Chargers, Chiefs, Broncos, Raiders, Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago, New Orleans, Patriots and San francisco .
Who are the nine games they are going to win? Dallas, once, I would say Pats, Saints and maybe Broncos but all those three games are away, ( Broncos are tough at home ) Maybe San Francisco at home , maybe Minnesota at home if JJ McCarthy does not live up to his hype .
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 23, 2025, 09:45:13 AMI agree with everything PS said except his man crush on Shedeur Sanders and discounting of Jaxson Dart.
4.7 mil guaranteed is a one year backup QB salary.
Winston can start if they need him to but he's not leading this team to a winning record.
He says they can't draft Dart at three. Ok, it's debatable. So, if Sanders is there at 3, there are options to pick Carter or Hunter. Or trade down with the Jets and pick Dart and get their second and TYs or next years third. Worst case scenario is move up from the second round for a QB.
If they really want a Franchise QB and Dart is there at three, I can't see them passing on a perfect match with Winston.
I'd still think they should sign Wilson if they want a winning record this year, but I don't care. 2025 is a transition year and a throwaway. Unless its a dumpster fire, they both get another mulligan.
I am not dismissing the possibility that I am wrong, but I have two issues with Wilson. Issue one is that there are too many reports of him not being a good guy in the locker room for me to dismiss. Secondly, Wilson isn't really tall enough. He got by using his mobility to compensate for his lack of height. He's reached an age where he has lost that mobility. So you have a guy who isn't the best in the pocket, being forced to play mostly in the pocket.
I would have to think the Steelers would have retained Wilson if he still had the abilities that would make the Giants winners if he were on their roster.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2025, 10:10:55 AMI am not dismissing the possibility that I am wrong, but I have two issues with Wilson. Issue one is that there are too many reports of him not being a good guy in the locker room for me to dismiss. Secondly, Wilson isn't really tall enough. He got by using his mobility to compensate for his lack of height. He's reached an age where he has lost that mobility. So you have a guy who isn't the best in the pocket, being forced to play mostly in the pocket.
I would have to think the Steelers would have retained Wilson if he still had the abilities that would make the Giants winners if he were on their roster.
There's nobody better out there except for Rodgers, Rich. He had more TDs and less interceptions in 11 games last year than DJ had in 16 with the Giants in 2022. His air yards and big time throws are pretty good. He will have a good Receiving Corp. If you want to ride it out with Winston, then we may have another regime change. DJ was more mobile but took a lot of sacks and for all his ground yardage, Wilson's 17 game extension would put him at 28 TDs combined. Would you rather ride into the sunset with Winston?
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 24, 2025, 11:25:20 AMThere's nobody better out there except for Rodgers, Rich. He had more TDs and less interceptions in 11 games last year than DJ had in 16 with the Giants in 2022. His air yards and big time throws are pretty good. He will have a good Receiving Corp. If you want to ride it out with Winston, then we may have another regime change. DJ was more mobile but took a lot of sacks and for all his ground yardage, Wilson's 17 game extension would put him at 28 TDs combined. Would you rather ride into the sunset with Winston?
Giants Country, lets ride?
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 24, 2025, 09:14:49 AMThey play Dallas , Eagles and Commanders twice. Then, Chargers, Chiefs, Broncos, Raiders, Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago, New Orleans, Patriots and San francisco .
Who are the nine games they are going to win? Dallas, once, I would say Pats, Saints and maybe Broncos but all those three games are away, ( Broncos are tough at home ) Maybe San Francisco at home , maybe Minnesota at home if JJ McCarthy does not live up to his hype .
Not knowing the final rosters, I can't play that game. He has a better chance of winning 9 games than Winston. Didn't Mara mandate a winning season in order to keep this regime? I'd rather not start over, and I'm sure the fans who pay for their seats care about wins.
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 24, 2025, 11:30:59 AMGiants Country, lets ride?
Winston looks good like a QB should, but he needs a filter.
I would not mind Russell Wilson alongside Winston, I think that is a good duo to roll with, and as I have mentioned a few times, an exceptional duo to mentor a young QB(s)
Also would be a big step up, in a scenario where an injury occurs.
Wilson was a playoff QB in 2024, did not watch his game to be honest, but the statline looks good, especially considering the opponent.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 24, 2025, 11:25:20 AMThere's nobody better out there except for Rodgers, Rich. He had more TDs and less interceptions in 11 games last year than DJ had in 16 with the Giants in 2022. His air yards and big time throws are pretty good. He will have a good Receiving Corp. If you want to ride it out with Winston, then we may have another regime change. DJ was more mobile but took a lot of sacks and for all his ground yardage, Wilson's 17 game extension would put him at 28 TDs combined. Would you rather ride into the sunset with Winston?
I tend to think that Russell Wilson might get another win or two over just riding with Winston. Considering what Wilson is asking for, I do not see the value
https://x.com/BrownsNationcom/status/1903595332425969744
EDIT TO ADD: I would think the Giants might get more bang for their buck by signing Brandon Scherff or Jedrick Wills Jr. than signing Wilson
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 24, 2025, 11:36:47 AMI would not mind Russell Wilson alongside Winston, I think that is a good duo to roll with, and as I have mentioned a few times, an exceptional duo to mentor a young QB(s)
Also would be a big step up, in a scenario where an injury occurs.
Wilson was a playoff QB in 2024, did not watch his game to be honest, but the statline looks good, especially considering the opponent.
270 yards, 2 TDs, no INTs and 69% Completion % against the Ravens. I'd rather have Wilson/Winston than Winston/Tommy or Lock/Tommy.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2025, 11:39:08 AMI tend to think that Russell Wilson might get another win or two over just riding with Winston. Considering what Wilson is asking for, I do not see the value
https://x.com/BrownsNationcom/status/1903595332425969744
EDIT TO ADD: I would think the Giants might get more bang for their buck by signing Brandon Scherff or Jedrick Wills Jr. than signing Wilson
Schoen may agree with you. We shall see.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 24, 2025, 11:49:00 AM270 yards, 2 TDs, no INTs and 69% Completion % against the Ravens. I'd rather have Wilson/Winston than Winston/Tommy or Lock/Tommy.
I have to agree
Winston blows all our backup QBs attempts out of the water. Tommy, Lock, Tyrod, all of them.
Pete make a couple of good points about neither Payton or the Browns re-signing Winston
https://x.com/gmfb/status/1904163631530701126
"They feel Jameis Winston will be better in the room than Russell Wilson would have been, and better in the locker room," Schwartz said. "Russell Wilson is kind of a to-himself kind of guy -- popular guy and a good guy -- but Jameis Winston has that effervescent personality."
https://giantswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/giants/2025/03/24/new-york-giants-prefer-jameis-winston-locker-room-presence-over-russell-wilson/82633530007/#
https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1904240039925600393
Quote from: coggs on March 23, 2025, 12:33:41 PMTbinking they want to guarantee the 1st pick next year. Going with DeVito and Lock would have been too obvious, but this should accomplish the same goal.
Why would they make significant upgrades on D in free agency if that were the goal?
Quote from: coggs on March 23, 2025, 12:33:41 PMTbinking they want to guarantee the 1st pick next year. Going with DeVito and Lock would have been too obvious, but this should accomplish the same goal.
The guys whose jobs are very publicly on the line in 2025, want to tank and secure the top pick next year when there would be no chance of being retained?
If the Giants are going to sign another veteran (with an eye toward drafting a developmental QB), I think I would prefer Flacco over Wilson. As for Flacco vs Rodgers, I am not so sure.
https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1904246315317350864
https://x.com/gmenscouting/status/1904247870712143969?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Just saw that the Giants signed Russell Wilson as well... not sure if it's rumor or not as I've seen nothing else to confirm it yet
Quote from: ViewFromSection129 on March 25, 2025, 06:54:26 PMJust saw that the Giants signed Russell Wilson as well... not sure if it's rumor or not as I've seen nothing else to confirm it yet
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=72588.0
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 24, 2025, 02:43:19 PMThe guys whose jobs are very publicly on the line in 2025, want to tank and secure the top pick next year when there would be no chance of being retained?
We have no idea what is being said behind closed doors nor their long term plans. When Mara said he liked what Schoen said when they spoke. He could have said, "not in love with any of these qb's this year, so we can get a FA for now and then look to the following year......"
Quote from: coggs on March 25, 2025, 09:58:05 PMWe have no idea what is being said behind closed doors nor their long term plans. When Mara said he liked what Schoen said when they spoke. He could have said, "not in love with any of these qb's this year, so we can get a FA for now and then look to the following year......"
Mars made it clear, win now or youre gone
They aren't tanking
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 25, 2025, 10:26:22 PMMars made it clear, win now or youre gone
They aren't tanking
You will have to excuse me for not taking everything he says as gospel.
Quote from: coggs on March 25, 2025, 10:32:04 PMYou will have to excuse me for not taking everything he says as gospel.
Spending on a pair of vets each or which would have been the best QB the Giants employed over the last 6 seasons is the opposite of tanking. It's hard to fathom given how dumb it is, but they seem to think they can compete right now. Which tells me they're not drafting a QB this year unless it's in the late 3rd or 4th round at the earliest. They want starters whether it's at DT or RG or Hunter/Carter.
I am one of the most vocally optimistic people are here when it comes to the state of the roster. I have said going back to last year the roster isn't that bad the QB is.
But that being the case what's best for the team's future is not this. This is best for 2025 for sure. But not 2026 and beyond. They're going to be too good to draft a QB next year and too bad to make the playoffs. Makes me sad. But on the bright side no Aaron Rodgers makes me very happy.