The narrative spun by Schoen and Daboll (via the mouthpiece reporters) was that Daboll's schemes were great. He was scheming all sorts of receivers open but the QBs on the roster simply didn't see the open man or they were incapable of or not making the throw to those open receivers.
One of the things that drive Winston's INT levels is his abhorrence of just throwing the ball away. So, in theory, if Daboll is as good at getting receivers open as the narrative they have put out there, Jamis shouldn't have to force the ball into covered targets. He should have a career year in terms of big-time throws versus turnover-worth plays.
So if Jameis Winston is given a chance to start, we should have a pretty good idea of how good Brian Daboll really is in terms of his offensive schemes.
Winston's inaccuracy is as big a reason for his interceptions as his mistaken belief that everybody is always open and that every throw can be made. There are plenty of examples of him ignoring the schemed open guy to attempt the throw he wants to make and it backfiring. There are also plenty of examples of him attempting the right throw and just missing it by a mile. Winston dismantles schemes.
For a brief spell Sean Payton made Winston functional but he did it by halving his attempts per game and only letting him throw a handful of concepts. Payton handcuffed Winston and relied on D and his run game. Not even Payton could sustain it. If Winston is starting I doubt Daboll chooses to try to replicate that approach, not least because it did not work with DJ or Lock and also because our fans and owners are all sick to death with surrender football.
That is why Winston has a back-up contract and (hopefully) role. I like what he brings us on field and off on his cheap deal and if he plays we will accumulate yards, points and disasters. Anyone thinking Daboll can "fix" him is likely to end up disappointed.
Winston has played for Bruce Arians, Sean Payton and Kevin Stefanski and still throws interceptions. But if Daboll can't do what Arians, Payton and Stefanski couldn't then we'd know about Daboll??? I didn't realize Arians, Payton and Stefanski were not good with QBs
Quote from: londonblue on March 24, 2025, 11:03:23 AMWinston's inaccuracy is as big a reason for his interceptions as his mistaken belief that everybody is always open and that every throw can be made. There are plenty of examples of him ignoring the schemed open guy to attempt the throw he wants to make and it backfiring. There are also plenty of examples of him attempting the right throw and just missing it by a mile. Winston dismantles schemes.
For a brief spell Sean Payton made Winston functional but he did it by halving his attempts per game and only letting him throw a handful of concepts. Payton handcuffed Winston and relied on D and his run game. Not even Payton could sustain it. If Winston is starting I doubt Daboll chooses to try to replicate that approach, not least because it did not work with DJ or Lock and also because our fans and owners are all sick to death with surrender football.
That is why Winston has a back-up contract and (hopefully) role. I like what he brings us on field and off on his cheap deal and if he plays we will accumulate yards, points and disasters. Anyone thinking Daboll can "fix" him is likely to end up disappointed.
I watched a lot of Winston's INTs. Some are the result of accuracy issues, but from what I saw, it seemed like more than half are the result of him trying to squeeze it into a covered receiver. Considering Winston had all of 4 throwaways on 296 attempts, it's clear he doesn't believe in not trying to make a play work.
I also noticed that Winston does give up some of the easier underneath throws in favor of trying to make the big play. That reminded me a great deal of Cam Ward in this draft.
Quote from: Puffy on March 24, 2025, 11:05:54 AMWinston has played for Bruce Arians, Sean Payton and Kevin Stefanski and still throws interceptions. But if Daboll can't do what Arians, Payton and Stefanski couldn't then we'd know about Daboll??? I didn't realize Arians, Payton and Stefanski were not good with QBs
In fairness, considering Bruce Arian's favorite saying is, "No risk it, no biscuit," I do not see how one could argue that Winston wouldn't be throwing INTs under Arians.
Payton did reign in Winston's INTs but at the cost of having him throwing for less than 170 yards per game.
As for Kevin Stefanski, considering that he couldn't get anything from Mayfield (who went on to success in Tampa) and he failed to get anything from Watson (after trading to get him from his successful stint in Houston), I am not sure he is all that good in terms of maximizing QBs.
Count me in the camp that the scheme was getting guys open. I was at 2 games last year end zone seats and in both cases I was throwing my hands up in frustration as I watched Nabers and company running free while Jones dumps it off or takes a stupid sack. Winston has his issues and is gonna throw some INTs but what we won't see is guys running free downfield while being completely ignored by their QB.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gm0Kqt3XsAA_4nT?format=jpg&name=large)
https://x.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1904189952746746205
I think he has the arm talent and playstyle, that will allow us to get some these guys the ball in those scenarios more frequently.
It won't be 100%, but more of them should connect
Provided he even starts
I just want to enjoy watching football again. I'd rather lose 35-28 with Winston airing it out then the 24-9 type losses we suffer through week after week. As long as he throws more TDs then picks I'm on board. Will do wonders for the development of Theo and Hyatt. Nabers will be a top 10 fantasy scorer and Slayton will get his first 1000 yard season with double digit TD's. And honestly... he's only 31. If he goes out there and puts up respectable numbers and delivers a playoff win he might be good trade material next year or hold down the fort long enough for Arch.
Quote from: Soundwave401 on March 24, 2025, 01:56:38 PMI just want to enjoy watching football again. I'd rather lose 35-28 with Winston airing it out then the 24-9 type losses we suffer through week after week. As long as he throws more TDs then picks I'm on board. Will do wonders for the development of Theo and Hyatt. Nabers will be a top 10 fantasy scorer and Slayton will get his first 1000 yard season with double digit TD's. And honestly... he's only 31. If he goes out there and puts up respectable numbers and delivers a playoff win he might be good trade material next year or hold down the fort long enough for Arch.
Agreed, if 2025 is going to be another lost season, at least make the games fun to watch
I an excited to see Wins
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2025, 10:15:55 AMThe narrative spun by Schoen and Daboll (via the mouthpiece reporters) was that Daboll's schemes were great. He was scheming all sorts of receivers open but the QBs on the roster simply didn't see the open man or they were incapable of or not making the throw to those open receivers.
One of the things that drive Winston's INT levels is his abhorrence of just throwing the ball away. So, in theory, if Daboll is as good at getting receivers open as the narrative they have put out there, Jamis shouldn't have to force the ball into covered targets. He should have a career year in terms of big-time throws versus turnover-worth plays.
So if Jameis Winston is given a chance to start, we should have a pretty good idea of how good Brian Daboll really is in terms of his offensive schemes.
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Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2025, 10:15:55 AMThe narrative spun by Schoen and Daboll (via the mouthpiece reporters) was that Daboll's schemes were great. He was scheming all sorts of receivers open but the QBs on the roster simply didn't see the open man or they were incapable of or not making the throw to those open receivers.
One of the things that drive Winston's INT levels is his abhorrence of just throwing the ball away. So, in theory, if Daboll is as good at getting receivers open as the narrative they have put out there, Jamis shouldn't have to force the ball into covered targets. He should have a career year in terms of big-time throws versus turnover-worth plays.
So if Jameis Winston is given a chance to start, we should have a pretty good idea of how good Brian Daboll really is in terms of his offensive schemes.
[/quote
I am excited to see Winston or anyone capable and willing to throw the ball downfield. I don't buy this looking for exciting games. I want to see wins and if not that, at least competitive games where our offense can throw the ball and get in the end zone. That said, I don't get your statement about the Daboll "narrative". It wasn't hard to look at plays where Jones had protection and guys were open in the secondary and Jones took a sack or checked down. There were many of them
So will Wilson now be the guy to give us the answer on Daboll?
Quote from: londonblue on March 24, 2025, 11:03:23 AMWinston's inaccuracy is as big a reason for his interceptions as his mistaken belief that everybody is always open and that every throw can be made. There are plenty of examples of him ignoring the schemed open guy to attempt the throw he wants to make and it backfiring. There are also plenty of examples of him attempting the right throw and just missing it by a mile. Winston dismantles schemes.
For a brief spell Sean Payton made Winston functional but he did it by halving his attempts per game and only letting him throw a handful of concepts. Payton handcuffed Winston and relied on D and his run game. Not even Payton could sustain it. If Winston is starting I doubt Daboll chooses to try to replicate that approach, not least because it did not work with DJ or Lock and also because our fans and owners are all sick to death with surrender football.
That is why Winston has a back-up contract and (hopefully) role. I like what he brings us on field and off on his cheap deal and if he plays we will accumulate yards, points and disasters. Anyone thinking Daboll can "fix" him is likely to end up disappointed.
London,
Most reasonable fans know that..Jameis is Jameis..and a backup..fun..can make plays..great locker room guy..but not the answer. That guy isn't on the roster ..yet.