I had the Ward/Sanders/Dart thread when it appeared the Giants were going QB at three. With that seeming to be a less likely scenario, I figured I would start a second thread for day 2/3 QB prospects.
Based on this Tweet, I am thinking the Giants don't have a whole lot of interest in Howard
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@nflnetwork
https://x.com/ncoopdraft/status/1904582803775209966
https://x.com/NFL_DougFarrar/status/1904939106150604951
https://x.com/SharpFBAnalysis/status/1905239013885096278
https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1905258861532975375
https://x.com/Nate_Tice/status/1905023387564745148
https://x.com/SamMonsonNFL/status/1905322368899412343
After 8 years in college.... Shough is finally showing what he can do! =)) =)) =))
will howard will be an nfl qb for 15 years...I hope we draft him
I would throw the remote if the Giants took Shough with our 2nd or either 3rd. He is the embodiment of a walking red flag. I'd prefer almost any of the other qbs over him.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 27, 2025, 03:50:31 PMI would throw the remote if the Giants took Shough with our 2nd or either 3rd. He is the embodiment of a walking red flag. I'd prefer almost any of the other qbs over him.
Here's what Todd McShay had to say:
Tyler Shough, Louisville (6-foot-5, 219 pounds)
Shough has already experienced a lifetime of football adversity, much of which will benefit him at the next level. He's had five different coordinators in seven seasons and three season-ending injuries. That all did wonders for thickening his skin, and as a result, Shough is NFL ready from a maturity standpoint. I don't worry about how he'll handle adversity early in his career. He also has an advanced understanding of NFL concepts, verbiage, how to correct mistakes, and overall mechanics. In short, he's prepared for whatever the NFL throws at him. Despite age and durability concerns, Shough is an accurate passer with a live arm. He has impressive mobility, though his size and lack of lateral agility affect his ability to evade defenders in the pocket. He processes defenses well but can also make some off-schedule magic happen when he needs to. I have a Round 2 grade on Shough.
Universal Football Traits
Production: 2
Size-Speed Ratio: 1
Durability: 4
Intangibles: 1
Quarterback-Specific Traits
Mental Makeup: 2
Accuracy: 2
Release/Arm Strength: 1.5
Pocket Mobility: 2
Top Traits
Accuracy: Eyes, feet, trigger! The depth of his drops and how he keeps his feet married to his eyes are both impressive. He works diligently to get his feet correct to establish a solid throwing base. When he does, he's usually razor-sharp.
Ball placement: Shough knows when to layer with touch and when to drill it. His receivers did not help his completion percentage, but Shough's accuracy is plainly evident on tape.
Release: Shough has a live arm, and the ball jumps off his hand. He has good energy at the end of his throws and drives the football without strain.
Arm talent: He effectively adjusts arm angles and can make difficult off-platform throws.
Mobility: There's some magic in his game. He'll locate a receiver late while off-balance or with a defender hanging off him and flick his wrist or shovel the ball to keep the play alive. He also gets to top gear in a hurry as a runner and is the best runner of the top four QB prospects in this class.
Frame and athleticism: Shough is the tallest and fastest of the top QB prospects. He also has the largest hand span.
Limitations and Areas for Improvement
Age: He turns 26 in September.
Durability: He played only one full season at Louisville. His medicals will be a hang-up for some, though his three injuries were bone breaks. There's no concern of degeneration or fear of recurrence.
Throwing on the move: The only time Shough gets in trouble with accuracy is when he gets tangled up with his feet due to pressure he can't evade. He's taller, so not as sudden as the other three guys at the top of the QB board.
Decision-making: While I love his processing, reading of defenses, and aggressive approach as a passer, he can be careless with the football at times. Shough also needs to better protect his body to hold up in the pros.
Quickness: Despite his straight-line speed, Shough is not as twitchy and sudden as Ward, Sanders, or Dart. He takes a few too many sacks while trying to extend plays, and he's not sudden enough to do so in small spaces. He lacks the lateral agility to evade fast rushers.
I am really starting to warm up to Tyler Shough.
Three people, who I believe are good QB evaluators, have all endorsed him:
Greg Cossell
Todd McShay
Phil Simms
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2025, 01:00:26 PMI am really starting to warm up to Tyler Shough.
Three people, who I believe are good QB evaluators, have all endorsed him:
Greg Cossell
Todd McShay
Phil Simms
Rich, have you done any film on him yourself?
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 29, 2025, 04:41:15 PMRich, have you done any film on him yourself?
Only a little, I plan to do more
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 29, 2025, 04:41:15 PMRich, have you done any film on him yourself?
Rich, tell me what you see.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 29, 2025, 05:03:59 PMRich, tell me what you see.
He didn't look that good in that game. This game he looks much better
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2025, 06:32:39 PMHe didn't look that good in that game. This game he looks much better
Between the two games what did you like, not like, things that stood out to you?
Drop back-
Set Base-
Hitch step to Read Progression and timing-
How fluidly did he go through his reads-
Throwing motion, arm angles, speed adjustments-
Anticipation-
Off Platform throws-
Accuracy-
Decision making-
Pocket awareness, does he move well within the pocket, does he drift to his target, does he bail out too soon, does he hang tough and step up or does he back pedal-
Toughness-
Composure under pressure-
Responsible for own pressure-
Protect the ball-
Throwaway decisions-
Does he force passes in tight coverage instead of taking the checkdowns-
Overall-
1-5 rating
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 29, 2025, 09:56:37 PMBetween the two games what did you like, not like, things that stood out to you?
Drop back-
Set Base-
Hitch step to Read Progression and timing-
How fluidly did he go through his reads-
Throwing motion, arm angles, speed adjustments-
Anticipation-
Off Platform throws-
Accuracy-
Decision making-
Pocket awareness, does he move well within the pocket, does he drift to his target, does he bail out too soon, does he hang tough and step up or does he back pedal-
Toughness-
Composure under pressure-
Responsible for own pressure-
Protect the ball-
Throwaway decisions-
Does he force passes in tight coverage instead of taking the checkdowns-
Overall-
1-5 rating
Ed,
I get it; you don't like what you saw in that one game you posted. I guess my question to you is why well-respected evaluators like Greg Cossell and Phil Simms (and even Todd McShay) speak so highly of Shough.
I don't believe my ability to evaluate QBs is better than Simms or Cossell. So why are they so high on the man?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 31, 2025, 09:04:11 AMEd,
I get it; you don't like what you saw in that one game you posted. I guess my question to you is why well-respected evaluators like Greg Cossell and Phil Simms (and even Todd McShay) speak so highly of Shough.
I don't believe my ability to evaluate QBs is better than Simms or Cossell. So why are they so high on the man?
I want your opinion. You have been doing this long enough to be able to make a fair evaluation, and you don't get paid to do it. I happen to like the QB, and there is a lot that he does well. There are also things that he can work on, as with all these QBs. It comes down to where he should get slotted in this QB Class. It's good to get the evaluations on players, and these men do a good job, but there are some pretty knowledgeable fans here who share their take, and they give good reasons to substantiate it.
If you don't have the time, I understand.
Shough....Howard.....Milroe......smells like desperation to me.
Like drafting Nassib, Webb, Lauletta, except higher.
Quote from: Gman329 on March 31, 2025, 10:05:15 AMShough....Howard.....Milroe......smells like desperation to me.
Like drafting Nassib, Webb, Lauletta, except higher.
It's fair to say all three are less likely to succeed than the top QBs in the last draft class and Ward. I would even say there is a lesser chance of success than Dart and Sanders.
To me, drafting QB is like playing the lottery. It's all a matter of odds. I don't think most teams thought the chances of Hurts, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Brock Purdy, and so on were that great. Yet the teams that drafted them hit on their lottery ticket. As I said, there are longer odds, so I am sure there are even more QBs drafted in day two who didn't hit than my list of those who did.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 31, 2025, 10:00:11 AMI want your opinion. You have been doing this long enough to be able to make a fair evaluation, and you don't get paid to do it. I happen to like the QB, and there is a lot that he does well. There are also things that he can work on, as with all these QBs. It comes down to where he should get slotted in this QB Class. It's good to get the evaluations on players, and these men do a good job, but there are some pretty knowledgeable fans here who share their take, and they give good reasons to substantiate it.
If you don't have the time, I understand.
Ed,
Time is the issue. In my mind, doing a full and proper scouting evaluation would take many hours for each prospect. I have learned how to scout so when I get conflicting information, I can look at the tape myself and decide who is correct. Beyond that, I simply don't have the time to scout the hundreds of prospects that come out every year.
I appreciate the value of the scouting done by the people here. I agree, they are quite good.
In the case of Schough, I will confess that watching all the snaps from the video you provided and, to a lesser extent, the one I provided didn't impress me that much.
That's why I wondered what keen evaluators like Simms and Cossell see, that I don't
My wants for a Day 2 QB selection:
1) Healthy - I don't want a history of huge injuries to key joints like knee, shoulder or god forbid foot injuries.
2) NFL prototypical size - 6'2" is ok so long as enough weight to hold up against NFL defenders.
3) If he is day 2, he is lacking key traits so I want him to be top shelf athlete at QB position, someone who is mobile and puts fears in defenses.
4) I don't want a QB who is fearless, not someone who doubts himself. If he has some mechanical issues affecting his accuracy, that's ok so long as they can be easily corrected, but I don't want a QB who does not trust himself.
5) Coachable and self motivated. I don't want a QB who thinks "brand" or always being with his posse or going out. I want a quiet kid from a great family who instilled a work ethic in him.
I think this description is Jalen Milroe.
I see a sleeper type QB prospect in Schough, one who has good fundamentals, vision and accuracy... worth a third round, imo. Considering the veteran QBs on the roster now, and considering the not-so-topnotch QB prospects this year, it would not be wise to use our high first on one of those, specially since the O line is still weak and/or thin.
Sure up the O and D lines this year, get one or two mid-late round QBs like Schough and Howard and see if they can be the one, or then go for one next year in the 1st, with a better team around him.
Will Howard in the 3rd round.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 31, 2025, 01:03:09 PMMy wants for a Day 2 QB selection:
1) Healthy - I don't want a history of huge injuries to key joints like knee, shoulder or god forbid foot injuries.
2) NFL prototypical size - 6'2" is ok so long as enough weight to hold up against NFL defenders.
3) If he is day 2, he is lacking key traits so I want him to be top shelf athlete at QB position, someone who is mobile and puts fears in defenses.
4) I don't want a QB who is fearless, not someone who doubts himself. If he has some mechanical issues affecting his accuracy, that's ok so long as they can be easily corrected, but I don't want a QB who does not trust himself.
5) Coachable and self motivated. I don't want a QB who thinks "brand" or always being with his posse or going out. I want a quiet kid from a great family who instilled a work ethic in him.
I think this description is Jalen Milroe.
I struggle watching that Offensive. There are some creative plays, and some crazy plays. The Offensive Line struggles to execute a multiple motion, multiple pulling Run Game with missed blocking assignments and poor judgment by Milroe in RPOs. It just seems like he could have been so much more in a different Offense.
He executes empty well with runs and sideline screens. He makes some incredible throws, and then makes off timing throws and some bad decisions.
After watching the Auburn game, I come away feeling like they struggled to put up 28 points against "Auburn". Then when they had the game put away with lots of time left, they just ran the ball as if they were afraid to put the game in Milroe's arm. Then again there wasn't much in the playbook so they ran the same plays over and over. Delayed TE release. Five Receiver post routes and I get it that they want space for Milroe to run, but there are so many route combinations missing between the hashes with nothing but air.
He's got 26 starts under his belt, but there is no improvement from 2023. In fact his stats are worse. I get it. He didn't have a lot to work with. But if he was with Lane Kiffen, he might be in a much better position to be drafted.
I hate to see talent wasted on a smart young man but if he gets drafted in the third or fourth round, I can see him becoming a gadget player like a Taysom Hill. I wonder if he transferred and stayed another year if that would have helped him. I guess there were no opportunities.
https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1907480653483909343
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 02, 2025, 01:34:00 PMhttps://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1907480653483909343
I think if the Giants can get Milroe in round two or better in round three there is no big risk. A smart OC will incorporate his skill set into the offense even if it is not behind center...at first. I like that versatility especially considering the other prospects at his level are far from franchise potential.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 31, 2025, 09:50:21 PMI struggle watching that Offensive. There are some creative plays, and some crazy plays. The Offensive Line struggles to execute a multiple motion, multiple pulling Run Game with missed blocking assignments and poor judgment by Milroe in RPOs. It just seems like he could have been so much more in a different Offense.
He executes empty well with runs and sideline screens. He makes some incredible throws, and then makes off timing throws and some bad decisions.
After watching the Auburn game, I come away feeling like they struggled to put up 28 points against "Auburn". Then when they had the game put away with lots of time left, they just ran the ball as if they were afraid to put the game in Milroe's arm. Then again there wasn't much in the playbook so they ran the same plays over and over. Delayed TE release. Five Receiver post routes and I get it that they want space for Milroe to run, but there are so many route combinations missing between the hashes with nothing but air.
He's got 26 starts under his belt, but there is no improvement from 2023. In fact his stats are worse. I get it. He didn't have a lot to work with. But if he was with Lane Kiffen, he might be in a much better position to be drafted.
I hate to see talent wasted on a smart young man but if he gets drafted in the third or fourth round, I can see him becoming a gadget player like a Taysom Hill. I wonder if he transferred and stayed another year if that would have helped him. I guess there were no opportunities.
I think you have to remember that he went from Saban's offense to DeBoer's offense and they are very different. I think a lot of his lack of development can be attributed to that.