You know, I come to this board every day, and it seems every day I see threads knocking Schoen for whatever reason. Some posters seem to scour the internet to find things that are wrong with what he has done. Granted, he started out slow, but even at the end of last year, I defended him because of last year's draft and him getting to know the job. No one walks into a job they have never done and hit the ground running. As of now, Schoen really needs to get an A+ for what he has accomplished in FA. We went from a no QB team to a 2 QB team, both of whom bring good possibilities for our team, and he did NOT break the bank.
Now we are in position, because of Schoen, to draft a great player at 3, or trade down to accumulate more picks. I know we still have a very long way to go to even become respectable, but as of now, we are definitely on the right path.
Let's hope he can hit another Home Run in this year's draft, and he could be GM of the year. It's easy to continually knock our leaders, it's harder t 6o admit they might have been wrong about him.
I've been one of the more consistent supporters of Schoen. That doesn't mean that I like all of his moves. I still support him but any love I show him for his moves are conditional at this point. I need to see how they turn out before I offer any praise.
See me in October.
I agree Lenn. Last draft and current FA has me feeling good. Let's hope we have finally turned this oil tanker around!
Quote from: LennG on March 26, 2025, 12:04:55 PMYou know, I come to this board every day, and it seems every day I see threads knocking Schoen for whatever reason. Some posters seem to scour the internet to find things that are wrong with what he has done. Granted, he started out slow, but even at the end of last year, I defended him because of last year's draft and him getting to know the job. No one walks into a job they have never done and hit the ground running. As of now, Schoen really needs to get an A+ for what he has accomplished in FA. We went from a no QB team to a 2 QB team, both of whom bring good possibilities for our team, and he did NOT break the bank.
Now we are in position, because of Schoen, to draft a great player at 3, or trade down to accumulate more picks. I know we still have a very long way to go to even become respectable, but as of now, we are definitely on the right path.
Let's hope he can hit another Home Run in this year's draft, and he could be GM of the year. It's easy to continually knock our leaders, it's harder t 6o admit they might have been wrong about him.
I very much appreciate this topic.
I still see posts, of people calling for his job to this very day, refusing to acknowledge this.
His offseason, is not one you typically see of someone who has his job on the line, no desperate moves, upgrades at quite a few places, and setup perfectly for the draft.
If we have another 2024 draft, IF, then this team is going to be a
potential WC team again.
If nothing else, we're not in Pittsburgh's shoes who have to hope Rodgers' cave paintings don't tell him to retire. He can basically ask for the moon from them now.
Quote from: SlotCorner on March 26, 2025, 12:15:31 PMIf nothing else, we're not in Pittsburgh's shoes who have to hope Rodgers' cave paintings don't tell him to retire. He can basically ask for the moon from them now.
You mean the organization that hasn't had a losing year in almost two decades???
@LennG I "Some posters seem to scour the internet to find things that are wrong with what he has done"
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 26, 2025, 09:41:34 AMI agree with most of what you said. I would have preferred Rodgers (at least on the field). However, I also appreciate that from Rodger's perspective, the Giants were a terrible fit.
Schoen has set up the Giants about as well as he could this offseason (without mortgaging the future). Now we need to see how he does in the draft.
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 26, 2025, 09:39:34 AMHave to appreciate them taking action, instead of letting other players and teams deciding their fate for them.
Anyone can say what they want, but Schoen has had a solid offseason, importantly, one that does not scream desperation. This team "should" be much more competitive this year, while draft plans should not change too much. He did not mortgage the future at all.
Still more pieces, a better RG would have been nice, still can happen in draft. But this roster is in much better shape compared to pre-FA.
I think Wilson is a better fit than Rodgers also, so I am glad they got who they decided to go with instead of waiting it out, potentially running out of fallback options or having their hand forced.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 26, 2025, 09:34:47 AMAndrew,
I like how Schoen is playing in the off-season. With these two signings, the pressure is off in terms of forcing a QB at three. It remains to be seen if Schoen will play the draft correctly, but at least now he has the ability to do so.
It's amazing to me how much stock people put into off-season moves. Every off-season I'm told we are killing it and then the team goes on to finish 3rd or 4th in the division (10 of the last 12 seasons). Maybe wait until you see these guys on the field before you start finger wagging. I get the desire to be cheerleaders, but not everyone thinks that way.
I threw him some roses in the Wilson thread, Lenn 😉 I agree with you.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on March 26, 2025, 12:23:47 PMIt's amazing to me how much stock people put into off-season moves. Every off-season I'm told we are killing it and then the team goes on to finish 3rd or 4th in the division (10 of the last 12 seasons). Maybe wait until you see these guys on the field before you start finger wagging. I get the desire to be cheerleaders, but not everyone thinks that way.
I will admit that the league is littered with teams that "win the off-season."
That said, I think it's fair to say that given the Giants situation (admittedly created by Schoen), Schoen has played the offseason about as well as possible.
Schoen is going into the draft with minimal glaring needs (which cause teams to reach). That's really the goal of free agency. Now, it remains to be seen how Schoen does in the draft, but I don't consider it cheerleading to recognize that Schoen did a solid job setting the team up for the draft.
We are headed into year four of his rebuild and if we hadn't beaten Indy we would have ended up with the first pick overall. I'll praise him when this team actually improves on the field. I like some of his moves and detest others.
Quote from: gregf on March 26, 2025, 12:11:03 PMLet's hope we have finally turned this oil tanker around!
Very apropos analogy!
Doesn't just stop on a dime and reverse direction.
Will take some time understandably, but show me some wins first and get the team trending in the right direction at least before we anoint him the savior of the team for a couple of FA moves that have yet to see the playing field for big blue.
Top
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on March 26, 2025, 12:23:47 PMIt's amazing to me how much stock people put into off-season moves. Every off-season I'm told we are killing it and then the team goes on to finish 3rd or 4th in the division (10 of the last 12 seasons). Maybe wait until you see these guys on the field before you start finger wagging. I get the desire to be cheerleaders, but not everyone thinks that way.
More objective minds might not agree that Schoen is killing it this off season. Signing a journeyman QB and then a starter with very diminished skills does not give me much optimism for the future. But I will agree wholeheartedly that those two are light years better than what the Giants had at QB. What does that tell you about the Giants?? No, let's have the discussion about Schoen around mid-season and hope his team can win five games.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 26, 2025, 12:39:02 PMI will admit that the league is littered with teams that "win the off-season."
That said, I think it's fair to say that given the Giants situation (admittedly created by Schoen), Schoen has played the offseason about as well as possible.
Schoen is going into the draft with minimal glaring needs (which cause teams to reach). That's really the goal of free agency. Now, it remains to be seen how Schoen does in the draft, but I don't consider it cheerleading to recognize that Schoen did a solid job setting the team up for the draft.
I think your post is fair. I don't think the premise of the thread is fair. Why should anyone give this organization the benefit of the doubt before they prove it on the field? If people choose to do that, that is fine for them, but that's not what this thread was meant to accomplish from what I can tell.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on March 26, 2025, 12:58:44 PMI think your post is fair. I don't think the premise of the thread is fair. Why should anyone give this organization the benefit of the doubt before they prove it on the field? If people choose to do that, that is fine for them, but that's not what this thread was meant to accomplish from what I can tell.
I completely agree
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on March 26, 2025, 12:58:44 PMI think your post is fair. I don't think the premise of the thread is fair. Why should anyone give this organization the benefit of the doubt before they prove it on the field? If people choose to do that, that is fine for them, but that's not what this thread was meant to accomplish from what I can tell.
OK Doc, we usually agree on many things, but here I will politely disagree. Schoen has shown that the moves he has made are of a beneficial nature to this team. He can't play the position for some of these guys. Right now, a GMs job it to try and improve the team. Do you think he has tried to do that?
With our schedule next year, I don't see us as a playoff team, but I feel we will be competitive, and that is the first stepping stone. We are nowhere near the Eagles' class, but Schoen has us headed in the right direction. can't you admit that?
Quote from: katkavage on March 26, 2025, 12:49:04 PMMore objective minds might not agree that Schoen is killing it this off season. Signing a journeyman QB and then a starter with very diminished skills does not give me much optimism for the future. But I will agree wholeheartedly that those two are light years better than what the Giants had at QB. What does that tell you about the Giants?? No, let's have the discussion about Schoen around mid-season and hope his team can win five games.
Kat.
Like I said to Doc, we usually agree on many things Giants, but here, since you mentioned something,
what has he done wrong this FA period? What would you have liked him to have done differently?
He got us not just a second string bridge QB, but two decent enough guys who could start for several other teams in the league and at a very reasonable price. He has improved our defense, tried to make a few moves for the OL and WR position.
We are in a fantastic position to secure possibly the best player in the draft, Hunter and still have the time to draft a possible future QB and not have him rushed into starting.
To say to wait until it translates on the field, well we could have a great draft and still not translate to the field. Is that the fault of whom?
Schoen deserves credit for what he did in last years draft and this FA and we are in great position to really improve our team without being forced to draft a not-so-great QB early.
Quote from: katkavage on March 26, 2025, 12:21:00 PMYou mean the organization that hasn't had a losing year in almost two decades???
Yeah great. They have a great head coach.
Who's their QB if they don't get Rodgers?
I'll give him a silver star for FA this year. Both QBs are essentially on a one year contract based on guaranteed money and that's good. He improved the secondary, a wash on Edge and the same on the Tackles. He didn't improve the Oline and it remains to be seen if the depth is better.
I'm not going to forget how this team was in such a lousy position the last two seasons.
The preseason isn't over yet because he may do more and the Draft is a part of this process. I don't think anyone said the FA period was done poorly.
Quote from: LennG on March 26, 2025, 01:13:30 PMKat.
Like I said to Doc, we usually agree on many things Giants, but here, since you mentioned something,
what has he done wrong this FA period? What would you have liked him to have done differently?
He got us not just a second string bridge QB, but two decent enough guys who could start for several other teams in the league and at a very reasonable price. He has improved our defense, tried to make a few moves for the OL and WR position.
We are in a fantastic position to secure possibly the best player in the draft, Hunter and still have the time to draft a possible future QB and not have him rushed into starting.
To say to wait until it translates on the field, well we could have a great draft and still not translate to the field. Is that the fault of whom?
Schoen deserves credit for what he did in last years draft and this FA and we are in great position to really improve our team without being forced to draft a not-so-great QB early.
Len, I'm not saying what he's done is wrong or right. The bottom line is to win. How you get there is important...if you win. All the moves he's made, we just don't know yet. The big red herring is still the QB. As I said, Winston (who is not a starter) is a journeyman and Wilson, is not what he was five years ago, but yes, he is a starter and much much better than the dregs the Giants have had with Jones and DeVito. Hunter is an amazing prospect. Better than Nabers because of all he can do. Winston and Wilson are stop gaps. Who is the QB of the future? We don't know yet and might find out in the draft, though if it's a second or third day pick, the odds of that QB being the future are very very slight. Will the team win enough games against a brutal schedule for the coach and GM to keep their jobs? Will you give love to Schoen for all he's done in the off season if the team wins 3-5 games? If they win 8-10 bring on the love.
Quote from: SlotCorner on March 26, 2025, 01:36:57 PMYeah great. They have a great head coach.
Who's their QB if they don't get Rodgers?
We don't know...yet. But maybe we should see who has the better record by the end of next year?
Quote from: katkavage on March 26, 2025, 01:58:20 PMWe don't know...yet. But maybe we should see who has the better record by the end of next year?
Sure but where did I say Pittsburgh had a worse team? Just that we are in a better spot than they are as far as QB. This is a team that went all in on Pickett.
Maybe let's see which QB room has the better year.
As I stated to Rich in the Wilson thread, my frustration is not with Joe, it's that he's been made somewhat ineffectual (I used the phrase "cut off at the knees") thanks to Mara. I have been saying for sometime that if Mara TRULY cared about winning (the same thing I said about Dolan before Leon Rose arrived). He would hire a President of Football operations and take his, and everyone else named Mara's hand prints off this operation.
*all except for Kate...see Ahmad Bradshaw, she proved to be one helluva scout. 8))
Who know, maybe that guy turns out to be Schoen if he pulls a miracle this year.
1. We still have no good QB.
2. Our OL is still not a negative unit.
3. He botched not trading Barkley and McKinney
4. We have been laughing stocks of the NFL the last two years.
5. We are still considered the worst team in the NFL.
He may have overpaid for Burns. Banks, Thibs, Neal, JMS all looks to over drafted. Hyatt has been useless the last two seasons. We are darfting 3rd for a reason. He is a major reason why.
Its much much easier to see what he has done wrong than anything he has done right. And throw how embarrassing he was to the organization in "Hard Knocks" - I have very little faith in him to do anything.
Mara made a bad decision to have a mandate for this year. That said, how does he define improvement?
I would have given Schoen and Daboll the last two years of their contracts to put in place, and execute, a plan. So by the end of 2026, they need to be on a good path or they are gone.
I really like what Schoen did this offseason. I fully expected him to spend free agent money like a drunken sailor, but he was measured and improved team depth. Including at QB. Now, the pressure is on to have another good draft and show he can handle both the draft and free agency in this job.
He also put us in a position to get our QB of the future next year's draft when it's a much deeper crop. I don't expect the giants to be that improved this year with our schedule and do expect them to be top ten again next draft. That said, if we are better this year and do pick lower next year, he should have the capital to trade up. Assuming that he can have a good draft this year and start adding more talent to this team, so that giving up picks to trade up next year would be reasonable.
In all, I'm pleased with this off-season so far and it's up to Schoen to keep things moving forward.
Quote from: katkavage on March 26, 2025, 01:57:14 PMLen, I'm not saying what he's done is wrong or right. The bottom line is to win. How you get there is important...if you win. All the moves he's made, we just don't know yet. The big red herring is still the QB. As I said, Winston (who is not a starter) is a journeyman and Wilson, is not what he was five years ago, but yes, he is a starter and much much better than the dregs the Giants have had with Jones and DeVito. Hunter is an amazing prospect. Better than Nabers because of all he can do. Winston and Wilson are stop gaps. Who is the QB of the future? We don't know yet and might find out in the draft, though if it's a second or third day pick, the odds of that QB being the future are very very slight. Will the team win enough games against a brutal schedule for the coach and GM to keep their jobs? Will you give love to Schoen for all he's done in the off season if the team wins 3-5 games? If they win 8-10 bring on the love.
Hey there, kat.
I appreciate your keeping things grounded here. For the off-season, phase one (i.e. free agency) is a positive for the organization. Phase two (i.e. the draft and undrafted free agents) will be next on the report card for us in the peanut gallery to discuss. It's all about having a plan and go execute to it. So far, Schoen and company are demonstrating they have a plan to shrewdly add talent without breaking the bank WHILE addressing areas of need. While we may question some signings, we must also consider the coaches on the sideline have inputs to whom they feel would benefit their own system and planning within it. We won't know for certain until the bullets fly for real, but we can presume that to be a practical reason.
We also have to remember the philosophy of execution, now that there are different players in key positions (e.g. QB), things are going to be a bit different than before. How much so will depend on several variables and the most obvious is the injury factor. If the Giants cannot stay on the field, especially in the trenches, it's going to be yet another long and painful season. This, more than anything draft pick, or free agent signing, MUST be addressed and mitigated going into 2025.
For now, anyway, Schoen is doing his job and doing it well enough. This isn't a playoff team, by any stretch; however, if the draft enables them to pick up the right talent, in the right positions, this group may end up surprising us all and may sneak up on the divisional rivals. That would be a huge win for Schoen and Daboll and serve as the objective evidence they've got the ship vectored in the right direction. But it's going to take at least another solid, if not spectacular draft, before they'll be ready to compete again in the division.
Just get it right next month and focus on health going forward. You'll be surprised how much of a difference a season makes.
Peace!
Lenn: My answer to the question in the title of this thread:
It's too early to answer because there is still a draft, followed by a short post-draft final shuffling.
As for what he has done through today... "so far, so good." The roster has improved a bit.
Bob
Talk is cheap as Johnny U always said. Schoen will have his day, good or bad, determined on the field. I will be fair and see how the draft goes, then into camp before I will throw him under the bus. Mara gave him an opportunity to rebound the franchise that has the worst record in the NFL since 2017.
:yes: So he's part of that legacy and deserves little wiggle room. Show me results on the field...show me a roster with potential..show me anything but the last two years.
Quote from: SlotCorner on March 26, 2025, 01:36:57 PMYeah great. They have a great head coach.
Who's their QB if they don't get Rodgers?
They haven't won a playoff game since 2016.
They have less than Giants at QB.
The seemingly universal love for the Steeler way seems bizarre to me.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on March 26, 2025, 06:26:57 PMThey haven't won a playoff game since 2016.
They have less than Giants at QB.
The seemingly universal love for the Steeler way seems bizarre to me.
True, but when was the last time they had a losing season, even with weak QBs?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 26, 2025, 06:29:13 PMTrue, but when was the last time they had a losing season, even with weak QBs?
They've never had one under Tomlin, so you'd have to go back past '06.
But it's utterly meaningless in the grand pursuit of it all though, isn't it? The Giants have more super bowls in the Tomlin era and more playoff wins over the last 8 years.
All in all, which would you prefer- our record over since 06 or theirs? Plus they are left holding the baby whilst Rodgers decides what to do - only last week that seemed like a cardinal sin or maybe fans are just fickle, inconsistent and simply sail with the wind.
I'm satisfied with the Wilson/Winston choice. It makes sense as it is a cost-sensible (can't say cost-effective until proven although I'm optimistic) which allows flexibility and a range of options in both this year's Draft and next year's FA and Draft.
Schoen and Daboll will be free of the Gettleman cap and feckless QB burden such that if they can show real progress and perhaps double the wins, they should then have a fair and equitable chance to prove their worth for a time to come. That's all that they or any of us can ask for, .n'est-ce pas?
Cheers!
I said at the end of this past season that he deserves to be around. He hit a real home run in his last draft, and that has to count for something.
I look back, and if we had lost one more game the season before, Daniels would be our QB now, and Schoen could be a genius by drafting him. Schoen does what he needs to do. He didn't win that one game, and he has to play with the cards he is dealt. Sure he has screwed up several times. He did try to retain Barkley, supposedly even offering him more money than the Eagle were giving. He can't drag him back here. His biggest mistake was giving Jones that huge contract instead of franchising him. Look, even if Barkely were still a Giant, he would never even come close to the year he just had. Our offense wasn't built for that. I think he really came across badly on Hard Knocks, and that stayed with him for the season.
To any that are skeptical, if you were our GM this FA period, what would you have done differently with the money we had and the needs we had?
Quote from: LennG on March 26, 2025, 08:00:36 PMI said at the end of this past season that he deserves to be around. He hit a real home run in his last draft, and that has to count for something.
I look back, and if we had lost one more game the season before, Daniels would be our QB now, and Schoen could be a genius by drafting him. Schoen does what he needs to do. He didn't win that one game, and he has to play with the cards he is dealt. Sure he has screwed up several times. He did try to retain Barkley, supposedly even offering him more money than the Eagle were giving. He can't drag him back here. His biggest mistake was giving Jones that huge contract instead of franchising him. Look, even if Barkely were still a Giant, he would never even come close to the year he just had. Our offense wasn't built for that. I think he really came across badly on Hard Knocks, and that stayed with him for the season.
To any that are skeptical, if you were our GM this FA period, what would you have done differently with the money we had and the needs we had?
The only thing I would have done differently is taking the Wilson money and giving it to a starting RG. I like Schoen a lot but he's shown no ability to draft OL so I would have tried to find a known commodity and then drafted a QB. The thinking being that woould better set them up for the future.
Oh and I would have told Rodgers to kick rocks the minute his agent called and then blocked the number.
I do not want to be hypocritical bewcause I thought it was wrong to keep Schoen and Daboll. That said , i do want to defend him , at leastfor his last two drafts .
Evan Neal was rated the top or near the top of the OL men coming out of the draft. Nick Saban lauded him. John Michael Schmitz was either the second rated center right behind Joe Tippermann, or by some as the top rated center. He was said to have a mean streak and a guy who could be starting for years to come .
We thought , at least I did ,that an OL featuring Thomas as LT , Schmitz center and Neal at RT would turn out to be a superior OL. I do not think that Schoen was wrong. Signing Glowinski as a FA , at the time was also a good move .
In addition I was thrilled with the drafting of Keyvon Thibodeaux . At one point some had him at as the best player in the draft.
If someone slips to three the Giants can now trade out if they don't like the pick and someone is willing to offer a boatload of picks in exchange. He has put the team in a good position to maneuver during the draft if offers come.
For me though, my opinion of Schoen will ultimately be linked to whether or not they have meaningful games in December before his successful picks end their 3rd or 4th years and start leaving for greener pastures.
Let us be honest as well about one thing. We probably had the worst head coach in the NFL the last 2 years, so there is a lot of pressure for Daboll to show something or anything. Another slow start where we are not prepared and not filling out game day rosters (ahem, Commanders game) - that is also a reflection on Schoen as well.