There are four coveted Players at the top of the draft at this point in time. When the Giants pick, there will be two available.
New England needs Ol and DL, but they might want to gift Drake Maye, a second elite WR in Travis Hunter.
Jacksonville is another team that could use Hunter on both sides of the ball.
So can Las Vegas.
Then come the Jets and Panthers who need a player like Hunter.
There is an opportunity for the Giants to trade down twice but not too far and pick up a couple of second rounders, and then draft Jaxson Dart. It still may be considered high for Dart by some standards but not for me. Especially if securing extra picks to draft quality players.
I would speculate that preliminary conversations are now taking place.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 28, 2025, 07:56:30 AMThere are four coveted Players at the top of the draft at this point in time. When the Giants pick, there will be two available.
New England needs Ol and DL, but they might want to gift Drake Maye, a second elite WR in Travis Hunter.
Jacksonville is another team that could use Hunter on both sides of the ball.
So can Las Vegas.
Then come the Jets and Panthers who need a player like Hunter.
There is an opportunity for the Giants to trade down twice but not too far and pick up a couple of second rounders, and then draft Jaxson Dart. It still may be considered high for Dart by some standards but not for me. Especially if securing extra picks to draft quality players.
I would speculate that preliminary conversations are now taking place.
I think if they like him, mock drafts, ESPN etc dont matter. I truly believe the word reach is largely exaggerated and overused these days.
I would love the opportunity to trade back a few spots in such a scenario. Maybe Dart does 6 or 7 and we miss him, still some great players like Will Johnson, Tyler Warren also. With some extra capital to fortify the roster, if the opportunity presents itself, unless they dont like enough players to think they will get one, its a no brainer.
Quote from: MrGap92 on March 28, 2025, 07:59:20 AMI think if they like him, mock drafts, ESPN etc dont matter. I truly believe the word reach is largely exaggerated and overused these days.
I would love the opportunity to trade back a few spots in such a scenario. Maybe Dart does 6 or 7 and we miss him, still some great players like Will Johnson, Tyler Warren also. With some extra capital to fortify the roster, if the opportunity presents itself, unless they dont like enough players to think they will get one, its a no brainer.
The Giants can control how far back they move and although they may get less in a trade, moving one spot at a time keeps them in control.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 28, 2025, 08:14:22 AMThe Giants can control how far back they move and although they may get less in a trade, moving one spot at a time keeps them in control.
What type of return would you want to move down anywhere from 5-8?
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 28, 2025, 07:56:30 AMThere are four coveted Players at the top of the draft at this point in time. When the Giants pick, there will be two available.
New England needs Ol and DL, but they might want to gift Drake Maye, a second elite WR in Travis Hunter.
Jacksonville is another team that could use Hunter on both sides of the ball.
So can Las Vegas.
Then come the Jets and Panthers who need a player like Hunter.
There is an opportunity for the Giants to trade down twice but not too far and pick up a couple of second rounders, and then draft Jaxson Dart. It still may be considered high for Dart by some standards but not for me. Especially if securing extra picks to draft quality players.
I would speculate that preliminary conversations are now taking place.
A small trade-down could yield a more impactful (at least for this season) player, such as:
DT Mason Graham
TE Tyler Warren
OT Will Campbell
RB Ashton Jeanty
I think this board will explode if they draft Jeanty in the first round.
I'd stand pat and draft a difference maker at 3.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on March 28, 2025, 10:01:31 AMI think this board will explode if they draft Jeanty in the first round.
I'd stand pat and draft a difference-maker at 3.
Here's the thing: in terms of impact, Jeanty has the potential to be the most impactful pick the Giants could make.
I appreciate the board and likely all of NYG fandom would "explode" if they repeat the 2018 drafting of Saquon Barkley.
I am not saying I am advocating for the pick, I see the pluses and the minuses. But picking him up after a trade down (which gets us more picks) would be better (in my opinion) than passing on drafting a QB, at two, and drafting Saquon Barkley.
The offense could be pretty special if defenses had to focus on stopping the run and allowed Wilson and Nabers (and company) to enjoy weaker pass protection (as defenses would have to focus on stopping the run).
I'm talking about moving down one slot or two slots at a time for teams that do not need a QB. They could pick up a second round pick and give back a 4th or take a 3rd this year and 2nd next year, with each move down. Then still Draft Dart in the first round. If they trade down twice just one or two slots they could pick up at least two thirds or maybe seconds. These teams may want block someone moving ahead of them. Especially if Hunter, Carter or Graham are on the table.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on March 28, 2025, 10:01:31 AMI think this board will explode if they draft Jeanty in the first round.
I'd stand pat and draft a difference maker at 3.
ED: Don't be surprised to see a team like maybe the Chiefs jump way up for Jeanty,
It's time to get Mahomes a better run game, and Jeanty will bring it. I don't particularly like him as a budding star, but he can be one on a team that threatens defenses with all sorts of passing competency.
I picked the Chiefs as my example because they saw "up close and personal" what Barkley did for the Eagles.
Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2025, 10:06:46 AMHere's the thing: in terms of impact, Jeanty has the potential to be the most impactful pick the Giants could make.
I appreciate the board and likely all of NYG fandom would "explode" if they repeat the 2018 drafting of Saquon Barkley.
I am not saying I am advocating for the pick, I see the pluses and the minuses. But picking him up after a trade down (which gets us more picks) would be better (in my opinion) than passing on drafting a QB, at two, and drafting Saquon Barkley.
The offense could be pretty special if defenses had to focus on stopping the run and allowed Wilson and Nabers (and company) to enjoy weaker pass protection (as defenses would have to focus on stopping the run).
I would be surprised if the board exploded tbh. I agree that it is not really the same situation, there are other players I would covet around that range, but if they got enough in return, I would not hate it.
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=72110.0 BBH ranked him #5 overall
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 28, 2025, 10:17:28 AMI'm talking about moving down one slot or two slots at a time for teams that do not need a QB. They could pick up a second round pick and give back a 4th or take a 3rd this year and 2nd next year, with each move down. Then still Draft Dart in the first round. If they trade down twice just one or two slots they could pick up at least two thirds or maybe seconds. These may want block someone moving ahead of them. Especially if Hunter, Carter or Graham are on the table.
Ed: Assuming Dart can be a star (I'm not) and assuming the Giants are seriously interested (I'm not, not because they don't need a young QB but because IMO there are more questions about him than you would want to have when spending a top ten first-round pick), then, with those assumptions, you still take a risk by moving down, because they have to "declare" themselves immediately, and if they go down "too far" other teams that want Dart will have plenty of time to consider (and execute) trades up ahead of them. Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2025, 10:06:46 AMHere's the thing: in terms of impact, Jeanty has the potential to be the most impactful pick the Giants could make.
I appreciate the board and likely all of NYG fandom would "explode" if they repeat the 2018 drafting of Saquon Barkley.
I am not saying I am advocating for the pick, I see the pluses and the minuses. But picking him up after a trade down (which gets us more picks) would be better (in my opinion) than passing on drafting a QB, at two, and drafting Saquon Barkley.
The offense could be pretty special if defenses had to focus on stopping the run and allowed Wilson and Nabers (and company) to enjoy weaker pass protection (as defenses would have to focus on stopping the run).
I do agree that if they end up taking Jeanty they'd better have traded down to do it. And I do agree that he would provide a pretty solid impact immediately were they to take him. But I don't think they should do that.
For one reason, the team is roughly in a similar position as they were when Barkley was picked. They had an aging QB (check) and one superstar WR on offense (check) and a bunch of JAGS around them. Unless you're particularly enamored with Darius Slayton. And while I know Barkley's rookie year was his best year with the Giants in large part because of the presence of OBJ, it's a house of cards where one injury or one idiotic trade could derail the whole thing.
If they were to trade down, I'd prefer they draft either a DT or OG with that pick, or even another WR rather than a RB. I think those would provide about as much of an immediate impact provided they're not busts, and also bring depth. While knowing I would be taking a RB later in the draft who will certainly not be as good as Jeanty, but could be good enough to provide similar stats when paired with Tracy, who could very well take a leap himself given how little experience he has at the RB position in general and how good he looked despite that last year.
Quote from: Gmo11 on March 28, 2025, 10:28:23 AMFor one reason, the team is roughly in a similar position as they were when Barkley was picked.
Gm: Absolutely correct. Nice post. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 28, 2025, 10:22:07 AMEd: Assuming Dart can be a star (I'm not) and assuming the Giants are seriously interested (I'm not, not because they don't need a young QB but because IMO there are more questions about him than you would want to have when spending a top ten first-round pick), then, with those assumptions, you still take a risk by moving down, because they have to "declare" themselves immediately, and if they go down "too far" other teams that want Dart will have plenty of time to consider (and execute) trades up ahead of them. Bob
You're missing the point Bob. The purpose is to draft down so a QB needy team can't sneak in.
And the only concern I have with Dart is that he may have an affair with the wife of a Coach or the family. Lol
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 28, 2025, 10:55:25 AMYou're missing the point Bob. The purpose is to draft down so a QB needy team can't sneak in.
And the only concern I have with Dart is that he may have an affair with the wife of a Coach or the family. Lol
Ed: OK, but I may have misunderstood (or misread) your post. What is the farthest down you would move to accomplish your objective without leaving the door open for some other team to jump over you? Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2025, 10:06:46 AMHere's the thing: in terms of impact, Jeanty has the potential to be the most impactful pick the Giants could make.
I appreciate the board and likely all of NYG fandom would "explode" if they repeat the 2018 drafting of Saquon Barkley.
I am not saying I am advocating for the pick, I see the pluses and the minuses. But picking him up after a trade down (which gets us more picks) would be better (in my opinion) than passing on drafting a QB, at two, and drafting Saquon Barkley.
The offense could be pretty special if defenses had to focus on stopping the run and allowed Wilson and Nabers (and company) to enjoy weaker pass protection (as defenses would have to focus on stopping the run).
I like where you're going with this, Rich
@MightyGiants , because Schoen needs to draw out the permutation of scenarios that could be presented to him if he chooses to to trade down if anyone interested team engages him.
For now, let's play it as if this scenario presents itself, but in two different categories. First, moving lower in the top 15, the second to the bottom half of the first round.
Well, how far down would you be willing to drop, what compensation are you looking for and most important, will your draft board have a player you'd want at the slot you've traded into, or will you press for additional compensation (e.g. a player from their team, 2026 picks?)? What does that all look like while remaining true to your overall objectives going into this draft?
Of course, you give away the opportunity to draft one of the three best players in the draft. Do you have the courage to pass on a chance to have a potential impact player who could significantly help turn your program around. Can you live with that if what you are doing backfires? Every draft pick contains risk. Not saying pick three doesn't, but it's your decision to make that determination.
What's the compensation of trading out of pick three to the following spots:
- Pick 6:
- Pick 7:
- Pick 10:
- Pick 15:
- Pick 18:
- Pick 20:
- Pick 31:
If the bigger picture is picking up draft capital to make a run at a franchise QB in the 2026 draft, well, good, I personally would strongly be open to that, as well as a number of additional picks in this upcoming draft.
If you're only adding capital for the 2025 draft, I'd better have a player in mind that I have a conviction on who will still be there when I pick. That's a risky proposition and we've seen how this can blow up via tactical countermeasure from divisional teams "jumping" the Giants in a chess game.
If you have a conviction on Jeanty, and what's not to love about the kid, do you pick him before the offensive line is truly fixed? Because it really isn't and the Giants still need competent depth, in addition to drafting a guard and possibly a tackle. Now, if you want to move down and get the big guy from LSU, then sign me up as I would applaud that selection. I also wouldn't have a problem dropping to the 10-15 slot and grabbing Banks Jr. who could play tackle but is projecting more to a Guard in the NFL. At least that takes care of the offensive line gap. Then you can look in the second for BPA and the third round has some good backs such as Skattebo whom I've been touting for a long time.
I think the Giants could be successful going straight up or trading down, as long as they keep things mum about their intentions.
Either way, they have to maximize their yield in talent from this draft. Anything less and I'm afraid it could be Schoen's last for the Giants.
Peace!
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 28, 2025, 12:30:43 PMEd: OK, but I may have misunderstood (or misread) your post. What is the farthest down you would move to accomplish your objective without leaving the door open for some other team to jump over you? Bob
The poignant question!
Peace!
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 28, 2025, 12:30:43 PMEd: OK, but I may have misunderstood (or misread) your post. What is the farthest down you would move to accomplish your objective without leaving the door open for some other team to jump over you? Bob
One move at a time Bob, starting with New England. If they don't want to play, or rather if they don't approach us, they risk going any further. If they get an offer from NE, it may be less than what a team further down would offer. If they want to control it, that's how they have to do it. Otherwise just trade down and get the best package with the best position in the draft. They need to find out what NE covets.
Quote from: kartanoman on March 28, 2025, 12:38:08 PMWhat's the compensation of trading out of pick three to the following spots:
- Pick 6:
- Pick 7:
- Pick 10:
- Pick 15:
- Pick 18:
- Pick 20:
- Pick 31:
- Pick 6: Equal to the 31st pick
- Pick 7: Equal to the 26th pick
- Pick 10: Equal to the 18th pick
- Pick 15: Equal to the 13th pick
- Pick 18: Equal to the 10th pick
- Pick 20: Equal to the 9th pick
- Pick 31: Equal to the 6th pick
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 28, 2025, 12:40:15 PMThey need to find out what NE covets.
You make a deal with them with an agreement that they don't take the player you want. Or, trade the spot to another team.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 28, 2025, 12:40:15 PMOne move at a time Bob, starting with New England. If they don't want to play, or rather if they don't approach us, they risk going any further. If they get an offer from NE, it may be less than what a team further down would offer. If they want to control it, that's how they have to do it. Otherwise just trade down and get the best package with the best position in the draft. They need to find out what NE covets.
Ed: I understand now, and clearly, it's super-smart. Try to "milk" the process for all you can get, one step at a time, waiting to see who is ACTUALLY going to pick immediately after you, before making a trade-down offers. Of course, each time you move you do lose the opportunity to draft a great player (especially at the outset). Nevertheless, it's a good idea, if the assumption that they would prefer Dart to (for example) Carter or Hunter) is correct.
Somehow, though, after signing Wilson and Winston, I have a hard time believing that they'll take Dart in the first round (or certainly no higher than bottom ten). To me, the purpose of acquiring two QB's was to allow the QB draft play itself out without making a move up or down for a QB.
Further, and IMO more importantly, it indicates strongly that they really like at least one of the top non-QB's, whomever that might be. My assumption, of course, is that they figure (for example) Ward will already be gone, and they don't want Sanders (at least, they don't want him with pick three). That doesn't mean (for example) that if the first two picks are non-QB's, they won't take whomever they believe is the very best QB prospect this year - it means only that they don't think enough of any of the QB's to forfeit picks in order to get in position to draft them.
Bob