While someone like Hyatt may benefit from a qb like Wilson
Wilson's limitations are that he does not throw in the middle of the field ....
Where does this leave Wandale ? I like the guy although he was short of the sticks too much of the time but I also think that is partly due to who we had at QB
I THINK/HOPE the offense is better as a whole .... But Wandale may not benefit from this
Wandale has been a waste of a draft pick IMHO. All I ever saw from him were 3rd down and 8 yards to go then he catches a 4 yard pass and runs an extra yard so it's 4th down and 3 yards to go. Everything with him is short, short, short.
Quote from: killarich on March 29, 2025, 11:23:01 AMWhile someone like Hyatt may benefit from a qb like Wilson
Wilson's limitations are that he does not throw in the middle of the field ....
Where does this leave Wandale ? I like the guy although he was short of the sticks too much of the time but I also think that is partly due to who we had at QB
I THINK/HOPE the offense is better as a whole .... But Wandale may not benefit from this
Quote from: killarich on March 29, 2025, 11:23:01 AMWhile someone like Hyatt may benefit from a qb like Wilson
Wilson's limitations are that he does not throw in the middle of the field ....
Where does this leave Wandale ? I like the guy although he was short of the sticks too much of the time but I also think that is partly due to who we had at QB
I THINK/HOPE the offense is better as a whole .... But Wandale may not benefit from this
That's what might be called, "getting ahead of the sticks", I'd say. I suppose such anxiety is a reflection of our PTSD (Pretty Tired of Sucking Depression).
But then the seemingly endless negativity of some folks around here can be a cause all in itself.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on March 29, 2025, 11:53:46 AMThat's what might be called, "getting ahead of the sticks", I'd say. I suppose such anxiety is a reflection of our PTSD (Pretty Tired of Sucking Depression).
But then the seemingly endless negativity of some folks around here can be a cause all in itself.
Cheers!
I am excited about the Wilson signing. A good draft to improve our OL, another WR, another RB, and DL and I think we'd be at least entertaining to watch. I'll take that.
Wandale had no issue with Tyrod at Qb and his analytics have always been elite. I always took the short routes as him knowing that his Qb refused to throw beyond 6 yards most of the time and trying to get in a spot so he'd actually throw it.
If I am being honest, Winston with the Wrs we have and potentially Hunter also is significantly more intriguing to me than Wilson. Wilson doesn't do the middle if the field, he doesn't do progressions, short game, and a lot more. So is the occasional deep ball worth everything you lose.
Slot guys need to know where the hashmarks and where the holes in a zone are to sit. Do not think Robinson knows either.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 29, 2025, 03:57:41 PMSlot guys need to know where the hashmarks and where the holes in a zone are to sit. Do not think Robinson knows either.
Robinson is very good at getting himself open. The issue is the Giants have had absolutely no deep passing game the last few years, which limits what you can do as an offense overall. Everybody takes a hit when the defense knows they rarely have to cover anything more than 10 yards down the field.
Who knows what the Giants offense will look like with a QB that is not afraid to throw the damn ball. Robinson may be contributor to getting 1st downs or not. Not having a QB standing there waiting for a guy to get open who is already open by NFL standards is a Giant plus in my observation. I hope that Wilson will throw the damn ball and not have a brain freeze like we witnessed last season. Actual offense. Can we get some?
I know the SEC folks said Robinson was more worrisome than other WRs there when he played at Kentucky. I hope that Robinson returns to the Giants with a new QB.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 29, 2025, 03:57:41 PMSlot guys need to know where the hashmarks and where the holes in a zone are to sit. Do not think Robinson knows either.
I think the problem is two-fold:
@Jclayton92 touched on the first part... not having a QB who wasn't reluctant to throw beyond 5 yards. The second part is the defense; they knew Jones was always looking for the checkdown so they moved the short zone coverage short of the sticks. That pocket for Robinson to sit in was now 2-3 yards short of the sticks. Hard to fault the guy for playing what he's been given.
Quote from: T200 on March 30, 2025, 07:02:40 AMI think the problem is two-fold: @Jclayton92 touched on the first part... not having a QB who wasn't reluctant to throw beyond 5 yards. The second part is the defense; they knew Jones was always looking for the checkdown so they moved the short zone coverage short of the sticks. That pocket for Robinson to sit in was now 2-3 yards short of the sticks. Hard to fault the guy for playing what he's been given.
That's pretty much how I saw it as well. I also soured on Nabers a bit as the season wore on with the lazy routes, drops in critical situations, and yards per catch that were in the TE realm. Why no complaints about him?
It wasn't the players. It was the offense and balls arriving just a half tick late that made it hard on the WRs to get their shoulders turned up field. The whole timing for the Offense was off yet predictable which made it hard to convert first downs. I think we all grew tired of the 4 yard routes on 3rd and 5. Those passes should be the last option, and too often it seemed like they were the 1st or 2nd.
Robinson and Nabers were in the top 10-12 in the NFL for targets and receptions all season, yet Theo Johnson had more yards per catch...... all season. What's wrong with that picture?
Quote from: bamagiantfan on March 30, 2025, 07:42:25 AMThat's pretty much how I saw it as well. I also soured on Nabers a bit as the season wore on with the lazy routes, drops in critical situations, and yards per catch that were in the TE realm. Why no complaints about him?
It wasn't the players. It was the offense and balls arriving just a half tick late that made it hard on the WRs to get their shoulders turned up field. The whole timing for the Offense was off yet predictable which made it hard to convert first downs. I think we all grew tired of the 4 yard routes on 3rd and 5. Those passes should be the last option, and too often it seemed like they were the 1st or 2nd.
Robinson and Nabers were in the top 10-12 in the NFL for targets and receptions all season, yet Theo Johnson had more yards per catch...... all season. What's wrong with that picture?
Having a QB who knows how to throw to a spot versus to the receiver as well as throwing him open is going to help the passing game overall.
Second-guessing may be a hard habit, and addictive for some, to break, but as Jughead used to say, "Relax Archie, Relax!
Cheers!
I expect all of our receivers to enjoy some sort of a boost to their production next season now that we have Wilson throwing them the ball instead of Jones/Lock/DeVito.
I don't think there are any very good receivers on this team other than Nabers, who is outstanding. The rest are complementary players in my view. I know some here believe Hyatt has untapped potential and could explode into something special, but I don't see it. And we've seen enough of Wan'Dale at this point to have an idea of what he is. He can be a decent player, but he's not special. Obviously Slayton isn't either, though he is effective enough to have been worth keeping.
I don't know that I'd prioritize receiver in this draft, but if there is someone they like who slips or someone they have a view on in the later rounds, they should (and I'm sure will) pull the trigger. To be a good offense in the modern NFL, you really need at least two good (ie better than average) pass catchers and preferably two very good to great ones. Right now we really only have one. After Nabers, everyone else is pretty middling (at best).
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 30, 2025, 10:48:32 AMI expect all of our receivers to enjoy some sort of a boost to their production next season now that we have Wilson throwing them the ball instead of Jones/Lock/DeVito.
I don't think there are any very good receivers on this team other than Nabers, who is outstanding. The rest are complementary players in my view. I know some here believe Hyatt has untapped potential and could explode into something special, but I don't see it. And we've seen enough of Wan'Dale at this point to have an idea of what he is. He can be a decent player, but he's not special. Obviously Slayton isn't either, though he is effective enough to have been worth keeping.
I don't know that I'd prioritize receiver in this draft, but if there is someone they like who slips or someone they have a view on in the later rounds, they should (and I'm sure will) pull the trigger. To be a good offense in the modern NFL, you really need at least two good (ie better than average) pass catchers and preferably two very good to great ones. Right now we really only have one. After Nabers, everyone else is pretty middling (at best).
I think it's worth having a discussion on Hyatt. I saw a guy who in his rookie year made some flashy catches and the fan base was thrilled to have a "weapon"....fast forward to last year, I saw a guy who when they gave him a look, he seemed to have the defender beat by a couple steps and a few times he had to slow up in order to catch the ball (or attempt to catch the ball)...I also remember a lot of passes were thrown out of bounds with no chance to catch it.
I wish we knew what the issue was with Hyatt. If he's lazy, can't block, doesn't know the plays etc...I wish we knew. Our beat reporters not only stink, they're wrong more often than right.
Quote from: Trench on March 30, 2025, 11:02:52 AMI think it's worth having a discussion on Hyatt. I saw a guy who in his rookie year made some flashy catches and the fan base was thrilled to have a "weapon"....fast forward to last year, I saw a guy who when they gave him a look, he seemed to have the defender best by a couple steps and a few times he had to slow up in order to catch the ball (or attempt to catch the ball)...I also remember a lot of passes were thrown out of bounds with no chance to catch it.
I wish we knew what the issue was with Hyatt. If he's lazy, can't block, doesn't know the plays etc...I wish we knew. Our best reporters not only stink, they're wrong more often than right.
I dont think I have ever seen Hyatt drop a pass. That means something. He's fast, has great hands and wants to be coached.
Quote from: Trench on March 30, 2025, 11:02:52 AMI think it's worth having a discussion on Hyatt. I saw a guy who in his rookie year made some flashy catches and the fan base was thrilled to have a "weapon"....fast forward to last year, I saw a guy who when they gave him a look, he seemed to have the defender beat by a couple steps and a few times he had to slow up in order to catch the ball (or attempt to catch the ball)...I also remember a lot of passes were thrown out of bounds with no chance to catch it.
I wish we knew what the issue was with Hyatt. If he's lazy, can't block, doesn't know the plays etc...I wish we knew. Our beat reporters not only stink, they're wrong more often than right.
I know many are high on him. And maybe they're right. In this day and age though, receivers who are any good tend to show you something by the end of year two, if not year one, and most really good ones are significant contributors as rookies now. I don't buy the argument of blaming everyone else around him like coaches and other players when we just watched Malik Nabers completely light it up with the same players around him and the same coaches.
Hyatt needs to do something noteworthy this year. If he doesn't, and people keep making up excuses for why he isn't, he'll be the Daniel Jones of receivers pretty soon.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 30, 2025, 01:09:07 PMI know many are high on him. And maybe they're right. In this day and age though, receivers who are any good tend to show you something by the end of year two, if not year one, and most really good ones are significant contributors as rookies now. I don't buy the argument of blaming everyone else around him like coaches and other players when we just watched Malik Nabers completely light it up with the same players around him and the same coaches.
Hyatt needs to do something noteworthy this year. If he doesn't, and people keep making up excuses for why he isn't, he'll be the Daniel Jones of receivers pretty soon.
I get it but don't you remember how exciting the fan base was in year one?...he was doing the job then went cold turkey.
Regarding Nabers, he did very well but in my mind he didn't light anything up. He showed some flashes. He also was fed the ball and opportunity. He also dropped a bunch of passes in big spots if we are being honest objective.
I'm not saying Hyatt is Nabers. He isn't. Not even close. BUT if Hyatt got the same amount of looks I think he would show something. I anticipate he will get a chance with Wilson.
Quote from: Trench on March 30, 2025, 01:23:11 PMI get it but don't you remember how exciting the fan base was in year one?...he was doing the job then went cold turkey.
Regarding Nabers, he did very well but in my mind he didn't light anything up. He showed some flashes. He also was fed the ball and opportunity. He also dropped a bunch of passes in big spots if we are being honest objective.
I'm not saying Hyatt is Nabers. He isn't. Not even close. BUT if Hyatt got the same amount of looks I think he would show something. I anticipate he will get a chance with Wilson.
Not sure what you remember from 2023, but his entire game even then was that he either got a few deep looks or he was nonexistent. He had just 3 games with more than 25 yards and only had 2 catches in 2 of the 3 games. For the most part, he was a non-factor in 2023.
Outside of elite height, Malik Nabers has every skill you would want in a receiver. He's fast, can create separation, and is great after the catch. The simplest answer as to why he gets fed the ball so much is that the team trusts his route running and ability to get himself open. It's pretty clear they simply don't trust Hyatt in the same way.
Hyatt may be little more than a deep threat that the Giants were not able to take advantage of due to poor O-line and QB play. The team clearly liked him a lot given they traded up to draft him so the fact that he doesn't get many looks is probably a direct result of the knocks on him coming out of the draft were right. He's not good at creating separation for himself and doesn't run a complete route tree.
Quote from: jgrangers2 on March 31, 2025, 06:57:13 AMNot sure what you remember from 2023, but his entire game even then was that he either got a few deep looks or he was nonexistent. He had just 3 games with more than 25 yards and only had 2 catches in 2 of the 3 games. For the most part, he was a non-factor in 2023.
Outside of elite height, Malik Nabers has every skill you would want in a receiver. He's fast, can create separation, and is great after the catch. The simplest answer as to why he gets fed the ball so much is that the team trusts his route running and ability to get himself open. It's pretty clear they simply don't trust Hyatt in the same way.
Hyatt may be little more than a deep threat that the Giants were not able to take advantage of due to poor O-line and QB play. The team clearly liked him a lot given they traded up to draft him so the fact that he doesn't get many looks is probably a direct result of the knocks on him coming out of the draft were right. He's not good at creating separation for himself and doesn't run a complete route tree.
I've clearly seen him beating the defense by a few steps. In year one I remember people here saying he even had to slow down and wasn't hit in stride.
The stats don't show the whole picture. In those early games he had more looks if I remember correctly nut the balls were uncatchable out of bounds.
People on this board were super excited that I can remember
I don't know how some of you folks make statements as facts based on snapshots. WDR actually has greater separation of 3.2 yards compared to Nabors at 2.8. They run different routes for different purposes and the read progressions are based on alignment and depth of target to the QB hitch. Nabors TAY are over nine compared to WDR who is at 4.5. WDR also has a higher catch %. Both have a positive expected YAC and Slayton is better than both, but consider the depth of the routes.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation