https://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1914666457960501267
They should have to be blown away by an offer. Like we're talking a significant over pay the point of making it impossible to turn down. In my opinion there are 3 standout players in this draft and the Giants sit at 3rd. They're getting one of them as long as their not completely idiotic about this. Look at it this way, if they had Hunter or Carter on the team right now what would it cost to trade one of them away? Probably a whole hell of a lot right? That's what they would be doing so they had damn sure better be getting a large overpay from a stupid franchise. Jags/Raiders/Jets all certainly qualify as stupid franchises so perhaps they are the ones pushing to move up?
How would I feel??
It depends on the offer. And I wouldn't drop down past the 15th pick or so, and I better get a boatload of day two picks and next year's first
If it's to drop down one pick to New England (who'd be targeting Carter I suspect), I want this year's 1st, 2nd and 3rd and next year's 2nd. Then I'd draft Graham, which might make an even more devastating defensive line than the addition of Carter
It all comes down to the offer. It would have to be lopsided in favor of the Giants
As long as they get great value, I am open to it.
Better than I'd feel if they traded up. And if they do trade down I'd like to see them get significant 2026 draft capital.
It would have to be a "what the heck are the Saints thinking?" type of offer. I am talking Ditka giving up the entire draft for Ricky Williams type stupidity.
As Gmo stated, there are 3 players who are head and shoulders above everyone else. I would want 9, 40, 71, and their first next year.
I would also have to consider where Carter and Hunter stand historically against other top prospects? If I am giving up one them, what are the chances I will have an opportunity to select someone as good next year? Simply picking up a 1st next year doesn't do it for me on its own. If they wind up with two picks 15 or later, it is a lot different than a top 5 and a top 10.
To get a sense, I traded down and ran a mock draft
(https://i.imgur.com/GFsE5mH.png)
It depends entirely on what they get back and who they draft. No issue in principle. Probably in favour if they can get a 2026 1.
I would prefer they trade down if Abdul Carter is not there. Not a fan of Travis Hunter or Sanders or anyone else at 3.
I have a bad taste left from the trade down that got us Toney! So, I would not like it. Just take the blue chipper in Carter.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2025, 10:29:37 AMTo get a sense, I traded down and ran a mock draft
(https://i.imgur.com/GFsE5mH.png)
Make the Sanders pick Tyler Warren, Graham, or Jeanty and I like that draft. There are a handful of players that have a chance to he truly elite outside hunter/Carter and Graham, Jeanty, and Warren are a couple of those guys.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 22, 2025, 11:24:37 AMMake the Sanders pick Tyler Warren, Graham, or Jeanty and I like that draft. There are a handful of players that have a chance to he truly elite outside hunter/Carter and Graham, Jeanty, and Warren are a couple of those guys.
I will confess, I could see Jeanty having a big impact on the team if he were acquired (especially if the Giants draft a good starting guard).
https://x.com/ggabefootball/status/1914715859446047173
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2025, 12:24:25 PMhttps://x.com/ggabefootball/status/1914715859446047173
Would be incredibly foolish unless you have a plan and get a kings ransom and I don't think anyone is paying a kings ransom in this draft.
https://x.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1914721340608663601
As the first 3 picks now seem certain to be Ward, Hunter, and Carter and in that order no less, and the media monkeys know it, it's causing them agita in their feckless attempts to compete for eyeballs. But like a con man- you know who I mean- they don't have to be smart as long as their victims are dumb enough.
Cheers!
Do you think that George Young would have traded down in 1981? I am not comparing Abdul Carter with LT because there is no one to compare with LT. But that said , I don't think that even George Young thought that LT would becomne the best defense player ever.
I am no football pundit by any means but it seems from everything I hve read Carter can be an All Pro for man years and you don't you walk away from that kind of talent .
I am more open to a trade-down than some in this thread appear to be. I certainly would not give the pick away for anything less than a very convincing package, but I also am not in the camp that it has to be an absurdly ridiculous offer to get me to bite. Any offer that involves a 2026 first rounder at least gets me on the phone. I simply don't believe our QB for the next decade is in this draft (that includes Ward btw), and I am of the opinion that next year's will have at least two or three who are better than any of this year's. Therefore I don't see why trading back for significant 2026 capital is a bad idea.
I do appreciate that trading back may forego a blue chip defensive player, and I also appreciate that fans are very justifiably tired of losing and want near term results instead of pissing away another season and kicking the can. I totally get that, and I am sympathetic to that view myself in many ways. I just think until you have a real QB, you're one of the have-nots in this league, and I think it's very disruptive to force a QB pick and then spend years trying to convince yourself that player is something he is not. We just got through six (yes, six) years of that, and I really don't want to do it again. If trading down gets us another first rounder next year and puts us in a position to draft a better prospect than what we have access to this year, I don't see how that can be such a bad thing.
Quote from: coggs on April 22, 2025, 10:29:22 AMIt would have to be a "what the heck are the Saints thinking?" type of offer. I am talking Ditka giving up the entire draft for Ricky Williams type stupidity.
As Gmo stated, there are 3 players who are head and shoulders above everyone else. I would want 9, 40, 71, and their first next year.
I would also have to consider where Carter and Hunter stand historically against other top prospects? If I am giving up one them, what are the chances I will have an opportunity to select someone as good next year? Simply picking up a 1st next year doesn't do it for me on its own. If they wind up with two picks 15 or later, it is a lot different than a top 5 and a top 10.
Before nearly draft, the first one, two, three, five prospects are touted as so much better than the rest yet better players emerge farther down the draft. The chance that Hunter/Carter are the two best players at end of year are probably very slim.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2025, 10:29:37 AMTo get a sense, I traded down and ran a mock draft
(https://i.imgur.com/GFsE5mH.png)
Whenever mocks are posted I'm always curious to know who else was available at the time the choice was made. Do you remember the pool of players from which you plucked Sanders at #7?
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on April 22, 2025, 07:57:26 PMDo you think that George Young would have traded down in 1981? I am not comparing Abdul Carter with LT because there is no one to compare with LT. But that said , I don't think that even George Young thought that LT would becomne the best defense player ever.
I am no football pundit by any means but it seems from everything I hve read Carter can be an All Pro for man years and you don't you walk away from that kind of talent .
Your comments about George Young and the drafting of Taylor brought back some memories about the whole what I had heard about the drafting of Taylor. As a result, I searched and came up with this article, which pretty much sums up how it came about.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2544659/2021/04/28/how-the-giants-landed-lawrence-taylor-40-years-ago-the-debate-at-no-1-and-dodging-the-cowboys/
Gil Brandt and George Young were at Clemson on Nov. 8, 1980. The two teams were playing on Sunday, so both GMs were scouting the game. Taylor made about 30 plays all over the field. Neither said a word about the game on the flight back to NY. Brandt said that he knew at that time that Young loved the player. Dallas tried to trade with New Orleans to get Taylor, but Dallas had pick 26, and the deal could not be made.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2025, 09:29:29 AMhttps://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1914666457960501267
Unless a team is already a contender and does not have more than a couple of needs, they would probably get more value from trading down. Also since even high picks' success rate is much lower than 100%, with more high picks you increase the chance of getting fine starters.
If we can trade down to the teens for an additional second this year and a second or a first next year, and with the lower first and the added second we can get two top prospects at OT and DT, strengthening the lines; that would be a dream come through.
With Carter available, it's a thanks but no thanks. With Hunter available as Carter's gone to CLE, I'd think long and hard about it. I wouldn't drop outside the top 10-12, but there are impact players on my board we could target instead (Jalon Walker, Walter Nolen) as well as add others in later rounds and perhaps position ourselves for a QB in 2026 to boot.
It will be highly unlikely, even shocking, if the Giants trade out of three if both Carter and Hunter are there. And one of them will be. If this was a new regime (GM and Coach) I might see a slight blip down to acquire a first round pick for 2026 so they can use that to move up if necessary to get a QB next year. But since the duo is on the hot seat and must win this year, they will stand pat and waste a second round pick or make a dumb trade to move up to take someone like Dart who will fill the Drew Lock position just to say they drafted a QB. Milroe at least will have some impact if they draft him--as a weapon. The other QBs are backups at best.
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on April 22, 2025, 08:51:58 PMWhenever mocks are posted I'm always curious to know who else was available at the time the choice was made. Do you remember the pool of players from which you plucked Sanders at #7?
You're asking more than my memory can give :laugh:
trade down only if they get next year #1 and more and can still get one of their top rated players.....passing on Carter would require a boat load of picks...for me
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2025, 10:29:37 AMTo get a sense, I traded down and ran a mock draft
(https://i.imgur.com/GFsE5mH.png)
Rich
I'm old and not quite awake
If you traded down why only 7 picks???
Dumpster Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on April 23, 2025, 09:18:13 AMRich
I'm old and not quite awake
If you traded down why only 7 picks???
Dumpster Dan
The idea was that the Giants want to get their QB of the future. I felt that the trade down should be minimal, as going down too far risks the target QB being drafted (either by a sitting team or via trade) before the Giants made their pick.
So you swapped with #7 and picked up #42???
Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on April 23, 2025, 09:45:54 AMSo you swapped with #7 and picked up #42???
Dan
Exactly,
I gave up a blue-chipper, but got another higher second-round pick (with the return being getting the hopeful QB of the future). I thought it was a pretty good deal, as I like many of the options available in round 2.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2025, 09:53:15 AMExactly,
I gave up a blue-chipper, but got another higher second-round pick (with the return being getting the hopeful QB of the future). I thought it was a pretty good deal, as I like many of the options available in round 2.
I thought that you were a better GM than that??? LOL!!
Dumpster Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on April 23, 2025, 10:01:46 AMI thought that you were a better GM than that??? LOL!!
Dumpster Dan
Dan,
I am not necessarily advocating for this course of action. I wanted to use the mock draft simulator to try to see what one would get if the strategy were adopted. If Todd McShay has it right, Schoen needs to get Jaxson Dart for Daboll. His options are trading down or trading back into round one. Which option would you prefer?
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2025, 10:04:14 AMDan,
I am not necessarily advocating for this course of action. I wanted to use the mock draft simulator to try to see what one would get if the strategy were adopted. If Todd McShay has it right, Schoen needs to get Jaxson Dart for Daboll. His options are trading down or trading back into round one. Which option would you prefer?
It would have to be trading back into the first round but not giving any 2026 draft picks in the trade .
I understand that Daboll likes Dart over the other QBs except maybe Ward and I understand that Schoen would like to please him if possible, but in my opinion , which might not be worth anything , If Nolan or Harmon are there at 34, I would take either one
Rich
I said that I was old and that means not as sharp where I am confused is that you started with 8 picks, traded back and only had 7 picks
Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on April 23, 2025, 02:55:23 PMRich
I said that I was old and that means not as sharp where I am confused is that you started with 8 picks, traded back and only had 7 picks
Dan
Oh, I only do 5-round mocks. The Giants still had two 7th rounders
Bingo!!!!!
Dan
two thoughts. First, to the LT reference. The Giants wanted a LB that year. There were far fewer games on TV then and many people, myself included, not only never saw LT when he was at NC; lots never heard of him. I doubt very much NC was on on local NY tv for any games. I remember a lot of people wanting Hugh Green a good LB from Pittsburgh. He was about 6'2 inch and 220 pounds. When the Giants drafted Taylor, he was listed something like 6'3 and 240 and faster than Green. It took all of a few plays in a preseason game to see George Young knew what he was doing.
Second, if Carter is available at 3 and the Giants trade down, assuming the package is good, and I think some here have pie in the sky expectations, I could understand moving away from Carter. This is supposed to be a great year for drafting edges so they should end with a good edge at some point in the draft and they obviously think Thibs and Burns plus someone good would be enough especially if they strengthen other weaknesses. Plus, there are still questions regarding Carter's health which might not show itself now but might in a few years.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 22, 2025, 08:34:38 PMI am more open to a trade-down than some in this thread appear to be. I certainly would not give the pick away for anything less than a very convincing package, but I also am not in the camp that it has to be an absurdly ridiculous offer to get me to bite. Any offer that involves a 2026 first rounder at least gets me on the phone. I simply don't believe our QB for the next decade is in this draft (that includes Ward btw), and I am of the opinion that next year's will have at least two or three who are better than any of this year's. Therefore I don't see why trading back for significant 2026 capital is a bad idea.
I do appreciate that trading back may forego a blue chip defensive player, and I also appreciate that fans are very justifiably tired of losing and want near term results instead of pissing away another season and kicking the can. I totally get that, and I am sympathetic to that view myself in many ways. I just think until you have a real QB, you're one of the have-nots in this league, and I think it's very disruptive to force a QB pick and then spend years trying to convince yourself that player is something he is not. We just got through six (yes, six) years of that, and I really don't want to do it again. If trading down gets us another first rounder next year and puts us in a position to draft a better prospect than what we have access to this year, I don't see how that can be such a bad thing.
This is why sometimes I think you're reading my mind or, quite possibly, vice-versa. I highlighted key points in your message above and, although this is nothing new, as far as the idea is concerned, the more we all discuss QBs on this forum, the greater my conviction is for the highlighted points above. Briefly:
You wrote:
Any offer that involves a 2026 first rounder at least gets me on the phone.In reference to trading down, as much as I share the conviction with you that the best chance for success for a Giants' franchise QB is to use the 2025 draft to position themselves to get within striking distance to go all out and make a move for the best QB available in the 2026 draft. Of course, that means trading out of Pick #3 and seeing if a team will offer up their round one in 2026 AND, possibly, get a trading partner whose expected 2025 season performance will end up seeing the Giants picking in the top one to ten.
I am of the opinion that next year's will have at least two or three who are better than any of this year's.That opinion is shared by more than just you and I.
We just got through six (yes, six) years of that, and I really don't want to do it again. If trading down gets us another first rounder next year and puts us in a position to draft a better prospect than what we have access to this year, I don't see how that can be such a bad thing.Especially since the QB situation for season 2025 is settled, not only is it not a bad thing, it gives the Giants an open license to go after talent that can really help the team elsewhere than QB. In fact, it really opens the door for greater opportunity to allow the draft to come to them and seriously consider any serious offers to move down, if a team makes it worth their while. It gives them the entire draft board (after the Titans and Browns, of course) to choose from. Finally, if a trade down comes to fruition, they'll still be able to choose from a wide array of very good players who can either fill holes, build on strength areas or, if they wish, can roll the dice on a QB, such as Dart, especially if they've moved into the back half of the first round, and have the first round pick in 2026 from their trading partner plus additional draft capital. There are all kinds of possibilities for them but the one caveat I agree with you on is any move down MUST yield a 2026 first round draft pick.
Even if they do not pick a QB, or try to trade picks, they can still attack their draft board straight up and walk away a more talented team and, in the end, that is the most important take-away for the Giants this weekend.
Peace!
The last time the Giants traded down, they gave up drafting the best defensive player around in Parsons, for what?
I will be extremely pissed if we traded down and pass on this new, next generational defensive player.
Its almost zero chance there is a generational qb on the board in 2026 and it gets traded out of. I can't remember that ever happening. I think the Titans traded out to the rams 1 overall because they thought they had their guy Mariotta. But for a team to not have a qb and draft that high and trade out of it. Has almost basically zero chance of happening.
Quote from: Crypto Fareez on April 23, 2025, 11:04:56 PMIts almost zero chance there is a generational qb on the board in 2026 and it gets traded out of. I can't remember that ever happening. I think the Titans traded out to the rams 1 overall because they thought they had their guy Mariotta. But for a team to not have a qb and draft that high and trade out of it. Has almost basically zero chance of happening.
I have to agree, the idea of trading up to get your franchise QB seems less likely these days as teams will tend to draft them themselves
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 24, 2025, 07:07:22 AMI have to agree, the idea of trading up to get your franchise QB seems less likely these days as teams will tend to draft them themselves
The counterpoint is teams trade up in the draft all the time still if they have the capital to do so.
the 2nd counterpoint is if let's say you trade down and get the extra 2026 #1 next year. The NYG pick plus the other teams pick plus our 2027 #1 is a quite likely a MONSTROUS offer to move up.
If the other team is QB needy, yes that may not be enough, however there is USUALLY a non QB needy team in the top 4 or 5.
Lastly, next years draft has a decent shot of having a much higher rated QB (with the only exception as possibly Ward) available in the top 4 or 5.
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 24, 2025, 08:17:38 AMThe counterpoint is teams trade up in the draft all the time still if they have the capital to do so.
the 2nd counterpoint is if let's say you trade down and get the extra 2026 #1 next year. The NYG pick plus the other teams pick plus our 2027 #1 is a quite likely a MONSTROUS offer to move up.
If the other team is QB needy, yes that may not be enough, however there is USUALLY a non QB needy team in the top 4 or 5.
Lastly, next years draft has a decent shot of having a much higher rated QB (with the only exception as possibly Ward) available in the top 4 or 5.
The key to being able to trade up is that the other team doesn't need a QB. That isn't happening as often as it used to, because the teams that are bad tend to have a bad QB situation
Honestly, if Jacksonville have the first pick this year and there is a stud QB coming out, not sure they trade it.