https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1924447874118504881
So a 300lb+ offensive lineman can take a running start and plow into the back of a 200lb defensive back to move the pile?
How is this protecting player safety?
Let the defense do the same thing and this all goes away in a week and a half. The only reason it works is because the defense isn't allowed to also push tushes. If they were this play wouldn't work nearly as often, and it would go away.
Quote from: Gmo11 on May 19, 2025, 09:29:30 AMLet the defense do the same thing and this all goes away in a week and a half. The only reason it works is because the defense isn't allowed to also push tushes. If they were this play wouldn't work nearly as often, and it would go away.
That seems fair.
It's rugby ..not football..
What happened to the whistle when a players momentum was stopped..
?? With chick refs on the boundaries that aren't aggressive enough to intercede...DEI football outcome
On the one side of the argument, you have the supporters who argue you shouldn't ban a play just because only one team can run it successfully.
On the other side, the argument is:
1) It doesn't look like a football play
2) The rule that was eliminated (in terms of pushing and pulling of players) was done so due to issues downfield with blocking. The rule wasn't eliminated with the idea of enabling the Tush Push. The Eagles figured out they could take advantage of the rule change years after the change was made.
3) It does increase the risk of injury. The Giants tried the Tush Push once and ended up with an injured O-lineman (and possibly a second player, I can't remember).
4) The overall rules of football were not written with the idea that a single yard was an automatic
I don't think a player should aid the ball carrier by providing extra leverage by pushing, pulling or carrying.
I have no problem with a player pushing or pulling a fellow offensive teammate to gain an extra yard, but I do have an issue with the tush push play.
In other words, outside of the tush push play, if a RB or WR has caught or run the ball and is fighting for that extra yard, and an offensive lineman or fellow teammate helps to push or pull him so he can gain the first down, I am okay with that, as I see nothing wrong with it.
The tush push play is completely different, and personally I feel it is cheating, and should be banned from the game, but that is just my opinion.
Quote from: Gmo11 on May 19, 2025, 09:29:30 AMLet the defense do the same thing and this all goes away in a week and a half. The only reason it works is because the defense isn't allowed to also push tushes. If they were this play wouldn't work nearly as often, and it would go away.
Every defense should view the play as an insult. Carl Banks and others have said that there is unseen violence that takes place in piles. What would a 300+ lbs. DL's finger do to Hurts' nostrill with a deep push and a hard twist, while a DB circles around and dives at the back of his legs? Let the players police it.
The problem as I can see is only an issue because they already banned tush pushing on special teams. So if it isn't safe on special teams per the league, how can you then ignore it on offense.
If only we had drafted JJ Pegues we could have our own 3rd play. Ole miss ran the direct snap with him on 3rd and 3 or less and never failed. We need a 300lb athletic bear to take snaps. Hopefully Skattebo is is the much smaller version of that.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 19, 2025, 11:14:32 AMI have no problem with a player pushing or pulling a fellow offensive teammate to gain an extra yard, but I do have an issue with the tush push play.
In other words, outside of the tush push play, if a RB or WR has caught or run the ball and is fighting for that extra yard, and an offensive lineman or fellow teammate helps to push or pull him so he can gain the first down, I am okay with that, as I see nothing wrong with it.
The tush push play is completely different, and personally I feel it is cheating, and should be banned from the game, but that is just my opinion.
In what way is the tush-push different? I see it as being exactly the same.
Quote from: jimc on May 19, 2025, 11:41:13 AMIn what way is the tush-push different? I see it as being exactly the same.
They are mutually exclusive, in the tush push play all 11 players on offense and defense are involved, so a total of 22.
On an isolated event where a rb or a wr catches a pass and is fighting for that extra yard and a fellow lineman helps him, only a few players are involved.
As far as injuries go, in both instances players can get hurt, but to me I never have and never will like the tush push
Son I'm in favor of having it banned from the game, but thats my opinion.
https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1924779517677084788
I hate the eagles too, but the whole thing is ridiculous. The play is an anomaly in NFL history. Nobody else can do it effectively. I don't like the play, I think pushing a ballcarrier from behind is dangerous.
It's just like when some odd anomaly or crime happens in real life, then they get to "stand up" and make a new law that just makes everything worse or is overly punitive. I just hate that stuff, it's a knee jerk reaction that eventually hurts in the long run. If you had a time machine in the late 80's and went to 2024 and watched NFL football it would be laughable, like a wimpy video game on easy mode. People are outraged at low scoring games now, but thats what football is. Who can impose their will on another man. Not 5 reciever sets with interference calls for barely touching a guy on 3rd and 14. It's pretty terrible for older fans, but they don't care about us, they want new fans from different countries now.
Quote from: Crypto Fareez on May 20, 2025, 10:39:54 AMI hate the eagles too, but the whole thing is ridiculous. The play is an anomaly in NFL history. Nobody else can do it effectively. I don't like the play, I think pushing a ballcarrier from behind is dangerous.
It's just like when some odd anomaly or crime happens in real life, then they get to "stand up" and make a new law that just makes everything worse or is overly punitive. I just hate that stuff, it's a knee jerk reaction that eventually hurts in the long run. If you had a time machine in the late 80's and went to 2024 and watched NFL football it would be laughable, like a wimpy video game on easy mode. People are outraged at low scoring games now, but thats what football is. Who can impose their will on another man. Not 5 reciever sets with interference calls for barely touching a guy on 3rd and 14. It's pretty terrible for older fans, but they don't care about us, they want new fans from different countries now.
In fairness, for most of the league's history, the play was illegal. Prior to 2005, it was illegal to push or pull a teammate.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 19, 2025, 08:56:08 AMhttps://x.com/DMRussini/status/1924447874118504881
Didn't they discuss it last year and allowed it?
Quote from: DragonSoul on May 20, 2025, 11:59:21 AMDidn't they discuss it last year and allowed it?
I believe last year, they either voted (and it failed) or they never got to the vote stage
At the earlier meeting, from what I heard, teams were split 50/50. Goodell tabled it to the later meeting, because he wants to see it passed.
https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1924855212243657163
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 19, 2025, 10:52:09 AM3) It does increase the risk of injury. The Giants tried the Tush Push once and ended up with an injured O-lineman (and possibly a second player, I can't remember).
Rich, John Michael Schmitz was injured on a tush push call in a 2023 Week 4 game against Seattle. He ended up missing four weeks. I believe that DJ was also hurt on the play, but came back in for the next series. The play itself was a failure, with the Giants turning the ball over on downs.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 19, 2025, 10:52:09 AMOn the one side of the argument, you have the supporters who argue you shouldn't ban a play just because only one team can run it successfully.
On the other side, the argument is:
1) It doesn't look like a football play
Neither does the dropkick; however, it's still in the rulebooks.
2) The rule that was eliminated (in terms of pushing and pulling of players) was done so due to issues downfield with blocking. The rule wasn't eliminated with the idea of enabling the Tush Push. The Eagles figured out they could take advantage of the rule change years after the change was made.
Correct. The latter, still legal within the rules today, date back to the pre-Walter Camp era, if my mind serves me correctly.
3) It does increase the risk of injury. The Giants tried the Tush Push once and ended up with an injured O-lineman (and possibly a second player, I can't remember).
You're correct in that it was two players, same play, who were injured against Seattle in 2023.
New York Giants unsuccessful tush push leaves two players injured (https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/giants-unsuccessful-tush-push-leaves-two-players-injured)
4) The overall rules of football were not written with the idea that a single yard was an automatic
Nor should they have been. Where's the competition in that?
This whole thing, from a Giants' standpoint, sucks because we're, in essence, talking about an Iggles' innovation play which really was nothing more than leveraging a throwback play which exposes a near perfect manipulation of "Offense beats Defense" every time (Caveat: if you have the proper sized players, in the right positions, executing at the right moment so the ball carrier can take advantage of the leverage gained by the line "pushing" in unison while the defense, in contrast, is at a disadvantage in having to "react" and, therefore, must use greater force to take away the leverage from the offense.).
You can call it rugby. You can call it "primal gridiron." In the end, your biggest and strongest 11 versus theirs. One gets a head start. The other must find a way to take their opponents' leverage and momentum away. If all things are equal, the offense wins the majority of the time. The defense has to figure out the "physics" of the offense's "force," in order to apply an effective counterforce to rebuff their advancement. They have little to no time to figure it out as it is akin to placing a bet on the roulette table in Vegas. Guess right, hit 'em just right, hold 'em long enough, you have a chance at stopping 'em. It comes down to the chains (Oops, I mean the "New and Improved" Sensor-based Electronic Measuring System the NFL will deploy in 2025!).
Is it too dangerous a play for it to be allowed to continue? Or, is it a means to handicap Philadelphia because it's given them a competitive advantage over the entire league? What's the REAL reason for banning the "Tush Push?"
Here's my opinion based on the four criteria above:
1. If it's a tad unorthodox, I think that adds a little more excitement to the game and I've personally become glued to the set whenever a "rare" play is about to be executed, such as a free kick from a fair catch taken from a punt within the last two minutes of a half. Even though it's now many ages ago, I remember when Doug Flutie converted a "dropkick" for the Patriots and everyone went bananas afterward. It was the first converted dropkick in the NFL since something like 1947. Again, something so rare you may never see it again. A "Tush Push" is far more common than that but it's a "throwback" play and I, personally, am nostalgic so I like those kinds of things.
2. It's implementation in today's game remains legal and Walter Camp did NOT eliminate it back in his day. So, what's the problem?
3. Injuries DO occur, and they've happened on this play. Using the Giants as an example, given their rampant injury history over the years, probably isn't the best example to illustrate this point. But what would be helpful is to take a look at the number of times the "Tush Push" has been executed since Philly first started using it, HOW MANY injuries have occurred and break them down by SEVERITY in order to get a feel for how dangerous the play actually is in terms of injury rate per play and severity index.
4. I believe it is understood that, once you take that field, and the bullets are flying for real, NOTHING is given to you on a silver platter. You have to EARN your yards, your points and defend your ground.
In the final analysis, unless the NFL can objectively conclude the play yields a NOTABLE injury rate with a MODERATE to SIGNIFICANT injury index, I would conclude to keep the play; HOWEVER, I would also recommend continuing the discussion on evaluating it for ways to make it SAFER. With any play on the field, there comes a risk for injury. Every discussion MUST include opportunities to make the play, the rule (or both) SAFER.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
Peace!
All I see is a bunch of chop blocks.
Get rid of it. I don't care about the injury arguments or anything else- just the eyeball test, it's not a true football play. It's rugby. Only way it would be fair is if for that one play they let the defense move first and that ain't happening.
https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1925213974456332289
https://x.com/AlbertBreer/status/1925217893651751172
https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1925217534568960093
Not sure what this means
https://x.com/DMRussini/status/1925212954561007932
Ridiculous
https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1925246819153371398
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 21, 2025, 01:57:37 PMhttps://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1925246819153371398
All AFC teams that rarely face the Eagles outside Detroit and the Saints.
Quote from: files58 on May 19, 2025, 11:16:22 AMEvery defense should view the play as an insult. Carl Banks and others have said that there is unseen violence that takes place in piles. What would a 300+ lbs. DL's finger do to Hurts' nostrill with a deep push and a hard twist, while a DB circles around and dives at the back of his legs? Let the players police it.
As I mentioned the way to stop it is to make sure Hurts is not the next Iggle QB to attempt it. The play is a personal affront to the defense. Make the price personal. Every time an Eagle takes a wallop(flagged or not) anywhere on the field the defense should say "that's for the push".