Big Blue Huddle

General Category => Big Blue Huddle => Topic started by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2025, 09:10:32 AM

Title: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2025, 09:10:32 AM
Quote"I think it's probably the right move," O'Hara told the New York Post. "I think last year was a year for him to either prove you can play tackle or you're gonna have to try to play something else. Knowing the type of kid he is, I think he's gonna attack it head-on and he's always had a positive attitude. Now he's just got to put it all together. He's got all the tools."

Quote"The physical side of it, he should be fine with, he's a big, strong kid," he said. "He's as big as a house. He's got to start using that size to his advantage."

Quote"It's harder to go from guard to tackle than tackle to guard, in my opinion," O'Hara said. "What he's got on his side is it's not a new offense he has to learn, it's not a new technique, it's the same stuff he's been working on, he's got the same O-line coach. From that standpoint, it's just reps."

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/giants/2025/05/23/shaun-ohara-new-york-giants-moving-evan-neal-guard-right-move/83813290007/?taid=6830718e9d70fd0001cfc79b&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: Bob In PA on May 23, 2025, 09:33:40 AM
If he can't play NFL guard, the problem is mental. Like O'Hara said, he has all the tools TO PLAY GUARD, although he is a bit tall for a guard, IMO. But I believe he has enough "bend" to succeed at guard.

His feet are a touch above horrible, and he simply can't do what it takes to play NFL tackle. At his size, his good-play percentage would have doubled if he had even average footwork for an NFL tackle.

At guard, I can guarantee they'll never ask him asked to pull.

Bob

Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2025, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: Bob In PA on Today at 09:33:40 AMIf he can't play NFL guard, the problem is mental. Like O'Hara said, he has all the tools TO PLAY GUARD, although he is a bit tall for a guard, IMO. But I believe he has enough "bend" to succeed at guard.

His feet are a touch above horrible, and he simply can't do what it takes to play NFL tackle. At his size, his good-play percentage would have doubled if he had even average footwork for an NFL tackle.

At guard, I can guarantee they'll never ask him asked to pull.

Bob



I used to think 6' 7" was too tall for a guard, until the Saints' three-time Pro Bowl guard Andrus Peat
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: spiderblue43 on May 23, 2025, 09:41:41 AM
Neal was such a disaster at tackle almost from the get go..so why did they wait so long to acknowledge that?

He is huge but so stiff .I mean like living room couch stuff, quite frankly.

They finally surrendered to the obvious :surrender:  :surrender: 
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2025, 09:43:13 AM
Quote from: spiderblue43 on Today at 09:41:41 AMNeal was such a disaster at tackle almost from the get go..so why did they wait so long to acknowledge that?

He is huge but so stiff .I mean like living room couch stuff, quite frankly.

They finally surrendered to the obvious :surrender:  :surrender:

I hope it's not the case, but I can't help but wonder if they didn't want to move him to guard because that would sort of be admitting they made a mistake drafting the tackle 7th overall (as tackles have more positional value than guards).
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: spiderblue43 on May 23, 2025, 09:45:48 AM
Rich

Quality organizations like the Eagles and Ravens realize quickly when they miss and move on appropriately...the Giants do they same thing oh very and over with their OL..Flowers ring a bell?
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2025, 09:51:47 AM
@Bob In PA

Also Becton was successful at guard while being 6' 8"
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: spiderblue43 on May 23, 2025, 09:56:11 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:51:47 AM@Bob In PA

Also Becton was successful at guard while being 6' 8"

But that was with a great unit with suberb coaching ..ol room ..and Becton needed a kick in the ass..out of shape. injured with the Jets .Neal has proven nothing to me he can respond like Becton.
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: spiderblue43 on May 23, 2025, 10:09:24 AM
The national media always makes the Giants look like fools for letting Barkley go .his title ride. Uh..hold on. He has the least impact of tacklers all year with those monsters in front of him ..the Eagles ol. Three yards before anyone got near him

That allowed him to really show his greatness ..the Giants couldn't replicate compare..at all.

Yea..this is a sidebar..but Neal would have been cut by the Eagles year two or traded. No?
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: MrGap92 on May 23, 2025, 10:40:23 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:40:53 AMI used to think 6' 7" was too tall for a guard, until the Saints' three-time Pro Bowl guard Andrus Peat

I could be mistaken, but wasn't he also a converted T?

Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2025, 10:41:39 AM
Quote from: MrGap92 on Today at 10:40:23 AMI could be mistaken, but wasn't he also a converted T?

Yes, he was.  I remember liking him in that draft.  He was on the thin and long side, so I was surprised he did so well at guard.
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: Ed Vette on May 23, 2025, 11:07:54 AM
The issue with being a 6'7" Guard isn't just bend and pad level, it's because he is difficult to see over from the QB pocket.

I posted the numbers for Wilson and his short passes which were the majority, were 19.5% middle field, compared to 14.2 left and 11.0 right. His completion % was 80.5 on short passes. Not bad, but he should have more attempts at the intermediate range. Most short passes are read pre-snap and intended Receivers.

At Pittsburgh all the Offensive Line players were 6'5 and under. Wilson at 5'11" will be 8 inches shorter than Neal. Knowing the route concept helps, but it might force Wilson to drift at times. Runyan, Schmitz, and Van Roten are 6.4, 6.3, and 6.3 respectively. So Neal is 4 inches taller.

His pass blocking grade is 15 points lower than GVR but he gave up less pressure and sacks. Neal's RB was the best on the team at 80.8 and it's 13-16 points higher than the other interior Linemen.

If they can make this work, it will be a slam dunk, but I doubt Neal will be picking up much Pulling duty. I'm curious how he will look at the second-level Run Blocking.
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: Painter on May 23, 2025, 11:52:41 AM
However it may turn out from here, how can we otherwise make sense of the success that Neal had at LG, RT, and LT in some 40 starts in the Nick Saban/ Doug Marrone Alabama Oline.

Some of the "all of whom" who had him ranked among the top 5-10 Olinemen in the Draft, now suggest that he was somehow "scheme protected" to which I say, COTS. And then there is the old standby- he can't handle the speed and athleticism of NFL Opponents as compared to those SEC deadbeats who he could manhandle at will. Oh! Of course, how obvious!

Then we must add to it the lousy footwork they never noticed (or covered up) at Bama, or has it developed only since he was drafted No. 7 Overall before becoming the 82nd of 83 ranked OT in the NFL?

Instead of applying our usual expertise in second-guessing, would it not make more sense to think along the same lines as Shaun O'Hara so that we can all learn whatever together?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: uconnjack8 on May 23, 2025, 12:01:15 PM
Really hope this works out. If Neal can be a good enough guard to start over an incumbent, it will mean a lot to the overall group.
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: jimc on May 23, 2025, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Painter on Today at 11:52:41 AMHowever it may turn out from here, how can we otherwise make sense of the success that Neal had at LG, RT, and LT in some 40 starts in the Nick Saban/ Doug Marrone Alabama Oline.

Some of the "all of whom" who had him ranked among the top 5-10 Oline in the Draft, now suggest that he was somehow "scheme protected" to which I say, COTS. And then there is the old standby- he can't handle the speed and athleticism of NFL Opponents as compared to those SEC deadbeats who he could manhandle at will. Oh! Of course, how obvious!

Then we must add to it the lousy footwork they never noticed (or covered up) at Bama, or has it developed only since he was drafted No. 7 Overall before becoming the 82nd of 83 ranked OT in the NFL?

Instead of applying our usual expertise in second-guessing, would it not make more sense to think along the same lines as Shaun O'Hara so that we can all learn whatever together?

Cheers!


How about - those inept offensive line coaches the Giants have ruined a potentially great prospect.  /sarcasm/
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: andrew_nyGiants on May 23, 2025, 01:30:12 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting HARD for this kid to start somewhere on the OL!

Shawn said he's a great kid, with a positive attitude, he works hard and has all the tools.

So what was everyone missing in the 2022 draft? He was a 7th overall pick and I didn't hear a single pundit nor fan say anything negative about the choice.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: MightyGiants on May 23, 2025, 01:50:32 PM
@Painter and @jimc and @andrew_nyGiants

I remember reviewing the film on Evan Neal before the draft.  One thing that bothered me was he was frequently on the ground.  Former Giants scout and Head of Bears Scouting had said that an offensive lineman frequently on the ground is a red flag (indicating balance issues).

I wasn't too concerned about the flag, because the draftnik community and even teams (Jerry Jones exposed the Dallas board, which showed Neal as one of the top players on their board)  were high on him.

Neal also didn't participate in any of the Combine drills.  That has become more common place, but in hindsight that should have been another red flag as his refusal to run was likely to hide his lack of speed required for an NFL tackle.

Another interesting hindsight observation was that Schoen tried to play the draft.  If you recall at pick 5 (where the Giants took KT) the two tackles available were Evan Neal and Ikem Ekwonu (drafted by the Panthers 6).  Schoen opted for KT because presumably they had roughly equal grades on Neal and Ekwonu.

While Neal's performance to date puts him in the bust category, Ekwonu struggled early and at this point in time is performing at the level of an adequate (maybe very slightly better than that) starting OT.

I agree that O-line coaching likely played a role (especially as O-line coaches tend to be more involved in scouting than other coaches).  Although the odd thing is that the Giants' O-line coach we want to blame, Bobby Johnson, seems to be doing a very good job with the Commanders.
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: Ed Vette on May 23, 2025, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 01:50:32 PM@Painter and @jimc and @andrew_nyGiants

I remember reviewing the film on Evan Neal before the draft.  One thing that bothered me was he was frequently on the ground.  Former Giants scout and Head of Bears Scouting had said that an offensive lineman frequently on the ground is a red flag (indicating balance issues).

I wasn't too concerned about the flag, because the draftnik community and even teams (Jerry Jones exposed the Dallas board, which showed Neal as one of the top players on their board).

Neal also didn't participate in any of the Combine drills.  That has become more common place, but in hindsight that should have been another red flag as his refusal to run was likely to hide his lack of speed required for an NFL tackle.

Another interesting hindsight observation was that Schoen tried to play the draft.  If you recall at pick 5 (where the Giants took KT) the two tackles available were Evan Neal and Ikem Ekwonu (drafted by the Panthers 6).  Schoen opted for KT because presumably they had roughly equal grades on Neal and Ekwonu.

While Neal's performance to date puts him in the bust category, Ekwonu struggled early and at this point in time is performing at the level of an adequate (maybe very slightly better than that) starting OT.

I agree that O-line coaching likely played a role (especially as O-line coaches tend to be more involved in scouting than other coaches).  Although the odd thing is that the Giants' O-line coach we want to blame, Bobby Johnson, seems to be doing a very good job with the Commanders.
The Offensive and Defensive Lines are the only positions where it's purely one on one competition. Receivers and DBs are not physical and they have zone aspects and route schemes. The QB and RBs have assistance. Think of the line play as wrestling matches. It's positions where you face elite competition and these are the 320+ best players on the entire planet.

In College, an OT may face an outstanding player one week and someone who will go on to a different career the next week.

It's extremely difficult to predict how successful an Oline player will be, unless the player is clearly a man among boys. That's why you will never see me grading and predicting Hog Mollies. Just one flaw in their skill set can ruin a career and there is no way of knowing their motivation and intestinal fortitude and resilience in developing their craft amd their bodies. Then add to that pile, the situation they are asked to succeed in.

Abdul Carter is a player I feel confident in. Micah Parsons was too. I had my doubts about Strahan after his first season. He made himself an elite player. Andrew Thomas looked like a huge bust for two seasons and although he made himself a good OT, his body is not holding up.

Any draft guru out there will be lucky if they can be right 30% of the time. So all the criticism over fans not seeing red flags over a draft pick at one of these positions, is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: Giant Obsession on May 23, 2025, 04:18:32 PM
Stiff.
Horrible feet.
Slow to recognize (at best)

Just cut him now or hoodwink someone else to give him a try.

Couple of good bull rushers or blitzers thru his hole and our QB room is gonna get empty in a hurry.

When you have a thorn in your arm, you don't leave it in there.
Title: Re: Shaun O'Hara on Neal's move to guard
Post by: Crypto Fareez on May 23, 2025, 05:15:49 PM
I love
Paul Dotino
Schmeelk
O'hara

don't really care for Carl Banks at all

Cassilas is cool

But overall I really don't care what anyone who gets paychecks from the team says.

It's basically an infomercial. Seriously, Dotino and Schmeelk interviewing Schoen after the draft and lobbing up softballs to him. lol I wasn't born yesterday. I seen this bit too many times.  :boooo: