Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 12:23:19 PMI am not going to make assertions like the social medias experts do on who's to blame or who should be doing what.

1) we don't know who's responsible
2) we don't know what's called
3) we don't know who screwed up

It could be jones, it could be the center, it could be a member of the OL.

Assuming who's to blame based off what we think should happen is very dangerous.

This is why I am asking to confirm who has what responsibility and have for weeks.  I don't want to assume.  Yet it's assumed I am just automatically blaming Jones when I am not.

Getting a Healthy Thomas and JMS back will make the biggest difference for this group.  When you think about it they've only had one offensive possession this season where that has been the case.

Funny 3 weeks ago people were asking the question of what to do with the line when Thomas came back and maybe shifting Thomas to Right Tackle because Ezeudu looked good against Arizona.  Now we want Ezeudu on the bench and Peart to start instead while Thomas is out. 

Quote from: Trench on October 09, 2023, 11:47:47 AMI'll answer it. He unfortunately doesn't make pre snap decisions well. There is game tape to prove it

But have the coaches given him the option of making those pre snap decisions?  What I am getting from Rich is that he doesn't and he is just supposed to call for the ball to be snapped and for the play to be run as is.  If that's the case then I can't fully blame him if those decisions have been taken away from him.

Quote from: madbadger on October 09, 2023, 11:42:42 AMNeither guy was physically brutalized for years like Jones has been. The only analog I can come up with is David Carr. I've said this in the past and I'll say it again and again. If you're going to draft a quarterback in the top ten you had better be prepared to waste significant cap space and draft picks to ensure he has a competent offensive line to play behind. Apparently Dave Gettleman had different ideas.

In Gettleman's defense he did draft a starting Left Tackle with the 4th overall pick the year after Jones was drafted.  That guy turned out to become an All Pro Tackle.  Schoen has spent a number of draft capital on linemen.  The Giants have spent more draft capital on linemen than any team in the league yet have gotten the worst ROI of any team in the league.  It's why I don't believe spending another Top 10 draft selection on a linemen in 2024 is the solution.  The Giants need to figure out what they're doing wrong and why their high value investments have given them so little.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:41:01 AMYou had 3 defenders meeting at the QB.  In cases like that, it's not the protection called.

Again that doesn't answer my question which isn't about one play or even one game.

They're definitely one of the three to four worst teams in the league at this point.  Not sure how it can be argued that a team through 5 games being outscored as much as they have is any where above that bottom 3-4 teams.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:03:24 AMGreg,

All summer I listened to interviews from players and coaches.  All of them made it clear the protections are called by the center, even if that center is a rookie.  You are certainly free to go search those interviews out, but in light of Dan deleting his post because he was wrong, I see little reason to do the work myself.

I have researched and asked the question because I have not seen anything anywhere that says whether Jones has been given the option to adjust the play call or alignment at the LOS pre snap. But I guess according to what you are saying Daniel Jones only has the responsibility to call for the center to snap the ball and run the play as called by the coaches.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 11:24:11 AMThe disconnect is from last season to this season. They have three draft picks on that line that they hoped would work out. They failed.

They also spent a 2nd round pick on a Center last off season.  When you have to spend as much cap space as they did on retaining the QB their All Pro Left Tackle and All Pro Defensive Tackle there is only so much cap space left to spend in FA.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:19:07 AMSometimes, we have seen such QBs do well later in their careers.  Look at Geno Smith or Rich Gannon as two examples (Randy Mueller had more examples in his latest podcast but I can't remember them).

Difference is Geno Smith had only 31 NFL Starts in his pre Seattle career and Gannon only had 35 NFL Starts in his first 6 seasons in Minnesota.  Compare that to Daniel Jones who in 4+ seasons has had almost 60 NFL starts.  Smith and Gannon were a case of not being given the opportunity to prove themselves.  Jones has had enough starts to prove himself and it just hasn't worked out.

Again I don't think this was a case of the Front Office and Coaching staff not recognizing that they needed better offensive line play.  They wouldn't have invested the 7th overall pick a year ago (in addition to other draft selections) and a 2nd rounder this year if they didn't believe it was an issue.  There is only so many draft picks and cap space they have to work with.  And it's not the only need they've had the last two off seasons.

This is a case of the moves they've made have not worked out on top of injuries this season.  So I don't think this is a disconnect. 

Quote from: babywhales on October 09, 2023, 10:31:23 AMIt certainly is not an environment to develop a QB in.  Although I must say it would seem Jones would get better at presnap reads, adjusting coverage and hot reads.  DJ is very smart, studies film and this should become a strength with the amount of practice he is getting at it.  Yet each week the same mistakes.

That skill does not seem to be getting better.  At some point the QB needs to negate and/or make the defense pay and despite the opportunities in each game it doesn't happen enough. 

Simply put the book on the Giants is stop the run and make Jones beat you. Until he can make the reads, adjust the coverages and hit the hot routes; nothing will change.  That exist outside of line play. It is not just Jones, San Fran did the same to Dak last night.

Just my two cents that even with better line play Jones will struggle with Top 10 defenses because he can not do this.

Yep, this is another explanation of how it's not all the line play and not all Jones.  Both are an issue and will be issues moving forward if the focus is just on one.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 10:53:56 AMAre you defending a post that even the author has abandoned?

I am asking an in general question that has come up a number of times without any legit proof.  So I will ask that question again as it can explain a lot.

Quote from: TDToomer on October 09, 2023, 10:42:41 AMDave Brown took it way worse from the fans. Jones has the media on his side. Brown never did. Brown also had opposing players mock his play, Had Mike Ditka crap on him on TV (and got revenge beating the Saints after je returned to the sidelines) and fans booing him endlessly calling him Dave Clown.

He did get it worse.  Back then the media never deflected to the team around him it was always about his performance.  So this idea that Jones has had it worse than any player in the history of the franchise is just flat out false.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 10:22:55 AMDan is incorrect here.  In the Giants offense, the protections are set by the center.  Dan has been going after Daniel Jones hard this season, to the point that he is now making mistakes on fundamental facts.  Worse, Dan ignored the two other rushers who had easily defeated their blocks. 

Can it be confirmed what pre-snap responsibilities Jones has been given by the coaching staff?