Big Blue Huddle

George Young was the only one that was allowed to run the team without Mara interference. I'm not saying fire sale. It's not surprising they probably never had a fire sale. It's more common in baseball and hockey. If Schoen is really running the team, the past should have no bearing on what happens now. If they have no intention of resigning Barkley, maybe they should trade him. Jones would be a decision for after the season ends. If they're not in a position to get a top prospect in the draft, then it's probably best to keep Jones and hope the line comes together next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to leave. How many different head and assistant coaches has he had? There's got to be a point that he will want to play in a balanced team with stable management.

I've been following the Giants since the late 60's and from '64 to about '83, they had the poorest offensive lines and about the worst records each year. From about the mid 70's to '83, including LT's first few seasons, they had a top defense and still lost. They started winning consistently around '84 when the offensive line came together and continued winning until George Young failed to keep it together in the early days of free agency. It took until after Eli Manning was here to build the line back.

Look at all the running backs that did well during the years of strong line play. Phil Simms blossomed when the line came together, Joe Morris too. Tom Coughlin was able to plug and play a number of different running backs. Look what Tiki Barber did with the mediocre lines he played with. Remember how he hit the holes on the right side? Barkley doesn't get holes any where close to what Barber had.

Offensive lines make defenses better. Running plays eat the clock and keep the D off the field. They're also safer than passing plays, can't have interceptions, tipped balls, fumbles from sacks, etc.

11 sacks last week? 22 in 4 games? Never, ever going to win like this.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 05, 2023, 10:23:03 AMAgain the Giants have invested a ton of draft capital into the offensive line.  I'm done spending another 1st or 2nd round pick on it.  Every team in the league that has a good line has invested less and gotten more out of their players.  The scouting and coaching is what needs to change before I spend another premium draft pick on it.

They're on their 4th head coach, 5th if you count the end of Coughlin's run. How many offensive assistants? None of them could make it work. The line needed to be fixed or invested in for over 10 years. How many linemen left here and were successful with other teams? You think they should continue to build with this foundation and bring in more WR's and pass catching, no-block TE's? Neal and the rest of the 2022 draft were scouted by Gettleman's scouting staff, so Schoen deserves more time.

No, I'm not tired of drafting linemen with 1st and 2nd round picks. And I won't be until the can build a line and system that can form a pocket, open holes for running backs and push opposing defenses back in short yardage plays.

Quote from: beaugestus on October 04, 2023, 11:57:30 PMSo, what is Shoen and Daboll supposed to run around and panic. Now is the time to be more judicious in their moves at this point. The root of the problem is the OL, with Andrew Thomas and the promising C in JMS is only 40% of a somewhat functional OL, with the possibility of Bredeson might help. Ezeudu, Mckethan, Neal the jury is still out. I think Glowinski and Lemieux have no future here. And what does Pugh offer to a desperate situation? They have an OL coach who we have asked to perform miracles with the talent on hand with the possibility his job being in jeopardy.

On Defense, I have questioned whether the league has caught up with Winks D. They are still getting gashed up the middle. I thought there would be take a little time with the secondary starting 2 rookie corners and a S in Pinnock who also is lacking experience. A pass rush is pretty non existent all contribute to the less than stellar defensive play.

I'm not a fan of making moves for their own sake.

It's not 40%. They need depth. When John Schmitz went down, the line went from poor to pathetic. Injuries are too common. This isn't the first time Thomas has been hurt. As for Neal, I wouldn't give up on him yet, but at this point, he's a big question mark. The team was and is being built wrong for at least 10 years now. Longer if you go back to Reese not reloading when the line started to get old. This is the 2nd time they reloaded with WR's & pass catching first TE's. It don't work. They're never going to win consistently until they have a decent line with adequate back ups and that's not going to happen in the next draft and free agent signing period.

I don't think the D needs nearly as much to fix.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 04, 2023, 10:38:24 PMWho is going to trade for an injured RB who will be a free agent at year's end?

Quote from: Giant Jim on October 04, 2023, 06:41:05 PM...I'm wondering if a contender would trade for Barkley near the trade deadline if he's healthy?... 

If the team continues to play this bad over the next several weeks, it might be time to clean house and start over. I'm wondering if a contender would trade for Barkley near the trade deadline if he's healthy? I think after the season, Daniel Jones's contract is moveable and if the Giants have the chance to draft a can't miss QB, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. Jones is taking a beating and would benefit with a half decent OL with another team. I wonder if he hopes to be traded so he can have a chance to show what he can do? This would buy the Giants a couple more seasons to build the line with adequate back ups and develop a QB. I don't see the offensive line coming together for another couple of years, meaning Jones will be in his 7th season. How long can he keep going with the beating he takes almost every game?

I'm not trashing Jones or Barkley, but wonder if they'd still be around when the rest of the team is competitive.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on September 29, 2023, 09:27:55 AMGeno seems to have done some growing up Seattle.  Perhaps with the Giants he was the same guy he was with the Jets.  I didn't see anything while with the Giants that would convince me otherwise.

I only saw him once when he was with the Giants.

Why would anyone think a team would be tanking from the 1st or 2nd game, especially with the lawsuit by Brian Flores on going?

Detroit Lions-The Portsmouth (Ohio) Spartans joined the NFL in 1928 and moved to Detroit in 1934, where they changed their name to "Lions" to match baseball's Tigers and imply the King of the NFL. The Lions have had a long, steady rivalry with the Chicago Bears and Green Bay Packers from their very first season right through today. They have another long standing rivalry with the Minnesota Vikings from the 1960's.

Well known players include Bobby Layne, Billy Sims and Barry Sanders.

Best known for hosting a game on Thanksgiving, the tradition started as an annual game against the Bears that first season in. In 1982, the Giants and the Lions played one of the most boring Thanksgiving games ever, but the game has become a classic as Lawrence Taylor almost single handily led the Giants to a come from behind victory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhIxODINZvY&t=2s&ab_channel=johnsmith

Quote from: kartanoman on December 20, 2021, 11:09:15 AM


Looking back into my 1968-69 Giants highlight films, I believe you are looking for Henry Davis, whom the Giants traded to the Steelers, and suffered that neck injury in 1973. I don't know whom, or what picks, the Giants received for Davis.

Dick Shiner, a back up QB who didn't stay there long.

Dallas Texans/Kansas City Chiefs-Lamar Hunt's team in his new AFL was the Dallas Texans. When he announced his new league and team, the NFL immediately put an expansion team in Dallas and tried to get Hunt to become a limited partner to Clint Murchison Jr. This deal was similar to the one Hunt was offered to buy into the Cardinals, therefore unacceptable. He also didn't want to walk away from the others that invested money in their teams for the new league. The Chiefs were one of the better teams in the early days of the AFL and won the AFL Championship in 1962, in a double overtime win that was actually more exciting than the famous Giants/Colts game played 4 years earlier.

But Hunt knew the NFL would do whatever it had to, to keep the Cowboys going and successful, so after looking into several other cities, he moved the team to Kansas City. The Chiefs remained successful throughout the 10 seasons the league existed, losing the first super bowl, then winning the 4th, the year after the Jets big upset.

The Dallas Texans and Cleveland Rams both moved to new cities after winning their league's championship.

Quote from: kartanoman on October 11, 2021, 03:52:50 PM
Let's also not forget, during the 1987 Replacement Players games,

I'd like to forget them.

Denver Broncos-Since the Giants are playing the Denver Broncos this week, I thought this would be a good time to expand on their origins. After baseball's Giants and Dodgers left for California, New York City wanted to get a an expansion team to bring back the National League or an existing one to relocate. When those efforts failed, William Shea started organizing a new major league, the Continental Baseball League. Unlike the NFL that flat out refused to acknowledge the AFL until it was too late, Major League Baseball agreed to expand with promise to add 8 teams, including  2 teams to the American League to start play in 1961 and 2 more to start in the National League in 1962. The Continental League dissolved before it started.

Bob Howsam, owner of the Denver Bears minor league baseball team was to be the would be the owner of the Denver Continental Baseball League team. He had his minor league stadium expanded for his team to play in the new major league before several owners of other teams bailed and the league collapsed. He needed to recoup the money he laid out to expand the stadium. Howsam, a baseball man from a baseball family, tried to get an NFL team and, as with others like Lamar Hunt, was turned down. Howsam's Denver team was an early signee to the AFL.

I'll take one guess without looking it up, Jim Clack, the center for The Fumble?

Was the other a linebacker?

The Giants signed Pete Gogolak from the AFL because Well Mara (and probably Sherman too) felt they lost a lot of games in '65 because of bad kicking. The signing upset both AFL & NFL owners and led to more serious discussions about a merger.