Big Blue Huddle

I'm sorry....come again????

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 12, 2024, 09:16:01 AMTo be frank, I have no idea what NYG will do with their first pick.   Maybe they do take the 4 QB off the board and believe the 4th choice will be a winner.  Maybe they take an elite WR and a lower QB prospect with an eye toward next year's QB class. 

It's sort of funny, if they go WR in round one, they could (on paper)) have the makings of a pretty strong team minus a quality QB who can stay healthy.  Funny, how difficult it is to get a QB.  Still, if they do go WR, I think the team will be in a much better position to draft and develop a QB.  If they draft a QB, they will be lacking a true number-one receiving threat, and that will make developing the QB a far more difficult task with success far less certain.

I love what I saw out of Hyatt without any semblance of decent QB play.  I can't wait to see him with somebody that can throw a forward pass as he was open last year constantly.  When they actually played him of course. 

So I do think that they are close enough with Hyatt, Wandale, Hodgins, Slayton and (if healthy ever) Waller than they are at QB.  Which is why I feel like they lean towards QB unless Maye is the one that falls and like me they don't like him very much at all at which point they go stud WR which I certainly wouldn't be mad at either.

The FA moves they've made to me have pretty much taken everything off the board at 6 besides QB/WR which may have already been the case even before the moves just given how the top of the draft is likely to fall, but after these moves to me it eliminates all doubt.  It's WR or QB first and then we go from there.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 12, 2024, 08:20:00 AM@londonblue

Excellent summary  Just one update, CB DW signed elsewhere


Even having slept on it and listened to two podcasts on the subject, I am still at a loss in terms of understanding what the Giants are thinking in terms of overall vision and strategy.  The heavy spending suggests that perhaps they see a big cap reduction in booting DJ from their roster in the future.  On the other hand, the spending of draft capital limits their ability to ensure they get a QB prospect they want.

Perhaps a lesser QB like Rattler or Pratt is in the team's future.

Schoen continues the Giant's trend of having one foot in the rebuild camp and the other foot in the win now camp.  I am not sure that success is possible with this approach.

I think he's looking at competing in 2025. The original plan when he got here was likely to dump Jones lose a lot in 2022 and 2023 and then target competing in 2024. That weird and mostly random playoff season screwed everything up.

All of a sudden you can't dump Jones and tank after all they just made the playoffs and that was the first time Jones looked even competent so perhaps Daboll could do what he did with Josh Allen and turn a middling QB into a stud? Alas Josh Allen he is not.

So now their plans got pushed back a year. But the moves make sense. If I were to guess from here they are probably taking a QB at 6. Whichever one is left. It tells me that they think this draft has a big 4 not a big 3 when it comes to QB. So they take one but sit him. Jones plays out the year. Then in 2025 the rookie who's not a rookie anymore takes over and hopefully starts taking this once proud franchise back to some sort of respectability.

I don't think they're as bad as they looked at times last year. They won 3 in a row with Devito for god's sake. The OL was abysmal and they've added two new pieces there already. And if Neal can't pull his head out of his ass a new RT gets drafted in the 1st round next season.

I think the plan makes sense but they still have to execute it.

Woof! Still... Great pass rushers don't grow on trees and with the Giants QB situation their best chance to win is going to be a lot of 10-7 slug fests so they better build a monster on defense

Two brand new guards.  Just gonna keep throwing stuff at the OL until something sticks I guess.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 11, 2024, 05:48:49 PMIf they trade for Burns and give up a 2nd, is it safe to say they are not trading up for a QB?

If the cost is a 2nd round pick then no they will not be able to trade up for a QB without including multiple future first round picks. But if the cost is a 2nd rounder that's not a bad deal cause this guy is really good.

I agree with him.  Of the tier 3 guys I would put JJ at the top of that list but still a tier back of Williams and Daniels and much like me he does not have much love for Maye. 

I don't think it makes a ton of sense to bring in a guy like Wilson who even with a down season would still be the best QB the Giants have had since Eli, because he's on the decline now and this is a team that should be looking to the future.

The good part of this to me is that the Giants are taking the idea that they need a new QB very seriously if they were going so far as to consider Wilson.  Which they should.  Because they don't currently have an even average QB on the roster.

Gotta be Williams. Easy decision for me. This guy is as impressive of a prospect as I've seen in a while. Anybody can bust but I'll take my chances with him over the others. Daniels 2nd. Definitely don't like Maye at all. But that's just me.

Panthers just got our old friend/mercenary Vlad Tarasenko. Don't see how the Rangers can hang with them without a big move of their own now.

If the options are Maye -3 second round picks vs JJ I'm going with JJ. I like JJ better than Maye straight up to be honest. I don't think I'd want to take either at #6 but the way things are shaping up if they want a QB they won't have a choice but to do it.

I prefer Daniels to either JJ or Maye though so if he does make it to 3 and the Pats don't want him that becomes interesting. Still likely wouldn't want to give up the picks but it would be a tougher decision.

I don't know that 3rd goal game winner sure seemed stoppable to me. Granted it went through the legs of Trouba but from damn near the blue line and it wasn't moving particularly fast.  Shesty played fine outside of that but it looked like his brain was rebooting as the shot was coming towards him cause he just froze and watched it go right past him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2024, 09:54:57 AMThere is a real difference in he situations.  The Bills were talented enough a team to make the playoffs the season before they drafted Josh Allen.  The Giants were so lacking in talent they were out of the playoffs by Halloween.

They did make the playoffs the year before though.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2024, 08:54:01 AMThe reality is, despite some fan's claims, Jones is a pretty talented QB.   The issue with Jones is the injuries.  One neck injury is scary; a second neck injury means you can't count on the guy.  The ACL is just piling on.

As I have said in the past, I am not a fan of comparing QBs directly.  After all, they all are in very different situations in terms of support (coaching, receivers, pass blocking, general talent levels) and scheme. 

Still, one of the problems for Mel Kiper (and anyone in the Draftnik community) is that you are scouting for the world rather than scouting for a team.   The reality is that each NFL team values different traits.  So even if two teams see a player in the same way, they will not rate them the same because each team will be looking for different types of players.  With that said, he is really getting into the weeds when he starts to compare a 5 year QB who has had a career history of poor support and frequent injuries with current draft prospects.

The injuries are a big concern but for me the ability or lack there of to read a defense and process information quickly is a bigger concern relative to Jones' chances of success as a QB.  He's clearly athletic.  His arm is good enough.  He just can't figure out who to throw to or set up his blocking properly.  This is not a new issue, he's had it since college.  It's why he never should have been drafted in the top 10.  I don't know if McCarthy is going to be better than Jones or not.  But I do know Jones isn't it.  So if that means the choices are giving Jones yet another year to establish ever further that he can't do this, or roll the dice with JJ, I'd rather roll the dice.

There's a clip going around twitter of Beane (Schoen's former boss) discussing trading so much to get Josh Allen and his reasoning boiled down to "Either he works out and nobody gives a sh*t how much it cost to get him, or he doesn't work out and I won't be around here anyway". Which is refreshingly honest. 

That's relevant to this situation because Daboll/Schoen are in a similar situation now, though not exactly the same because every team at the top of this draft needs a QB so they can't really trade up there to get one.  They could potentially take McCarthy at 6 though and similarly if he works out nobody will care that he was picked higher than most thought he should and if he fails they'll all be fired anyway. 

When you look at it through the prism of what's the most reasonable thing to do for the team I still don't think taking McCarthy at 6 is the right thing to do.  I don't feel strongly enough that he's going to turn into a real stud, although I do see some potential there.  (I have him ranked over Maye at this point). But when you look at it through the prism of a GM that's given a mixed bag of results after 2 years you can see why he might say screw it either we get our QB for the next decade and I've got job security forever or he sucks and I'm fired anyway so I don't have to sit around and try to fix it.