Big Blue Huddle

Question about Graham. Clearly many here dont want him back based on style.  I don't know the answer to this.  How do his defenses stack up relative to others?

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 12:48:59 PMI like Schoen as a man and I like his demeanor as a GM.  I have agreed with some of his moves and disagreed with others.  Far more importantly, some of his moves have proven to be mistakes, while others have been good.


Still, this is a results-oriented business.  Schoen took over a team that was 5th worst in the league (by virtue of their 5th overall draft slot) and two years later he has them as the 6th worst.  Frankly, I expected more progress.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 12:48:59 PMI like Schoen as a man and I like his demeanor as a GM.  I have agreed with some of his moves and disagreed with others.  Far more importantly, some of his moves have proven to be mistakes, while others have been good.


Still, this is a results-oriented business.  Schoen took over a team that was 5th worst in the league (by virtue of their 5th overall draft slot) and two years later he has them as the 6th worst.  Frankly, I expected more progress.

One could also say he took a team that was the 5th worst and the following year won a playoff game.  After that, he lost his starting QB and backup for extended periods (i know they won a few with cutlets) and most of his OL. And, he took over a franchise with very little to spend.

I've mentioned this before.  Having a successful year last year probably set back the franchise.  So, I'm not sure how to evaluate just yet. But, I think the lack of progress statement is simplistic.

Is there a statistic about the frequency of 3 and outs or other short drives?  I dont know but I suspect the Giants would be nearer to the top of the league. Other than a few games against top notch offenses, I often thought the defense ran out of gas against average offenses because they were on the field too long.  Just a theory

I dont get how they kept Shepard and didnt use him.  Crowder would have been far more effective as a punt returner and probably also as a WR.  If they had an experienced returner on the roster then keeping Shepard could have made sense if he had anything left in the tank which he didn't.  For that matter, why not re-sign Richie James instead of Shepherd. 

When Shepard made the team, I thought they had lots of plays in the playbook for him. Clearly I was wrong.  Unfortunately, the most logical explanation for keeping an injury prone over the hill Wr at the expense of others who would add value suggests to me it came from Mara. 

What was surprising about the game was a bad performance by Randle.  He couldn't throw the ball in the ocean.  OG did not have a good game offensively but he's a very good defensive player.  The Villenova boys were on tonight and Brunson was outstanding.  To win by this margin on the road against a good team was something especially getting almost nothing from Randle says something about prospects going forward.  I still think another move is coming.

The most fa

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2024, 02:24:30 PMDan Quinn will also get another shot, clearly.

Some guys are great coordinators but just not great head coaches though. Are there many examples of guys who were very good coordinators, got a HC job, failed at it, went back to being a coordinator, did well as a coordinator again, and then got another crack at HC and it went really well from that point on? I feel like that's pretty rare. The latest example of a failed attempt at that is Josh McDaniels.
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Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 04, 2024, 02:24:30 PMThe most famous one related to the Giants was when they hired Bill Arnsbarger as HC who had been the DC of the Dolphins.  He was regarded as a brilliant defensive mind who ran the Dolphins defense including the year when they went undefeated.  He turned out to be a horrible HC.  He had no communication skills; couldn't communicate with the team or the media or the fans, just a brilliant mind.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 03, 2024, 01:37:11 PMI'm on the same page as you. I see Hart as rotating with the 3 and 2 spot...I think we're misusing the team's talent by sticking him in the 4 behind Randle. Hart needs to be on the floor more than 20-25 minutes and so does OG, so it's a bit of a dilemma. It might be better to keep Randle and search for a solid, under the radar 4 to back him up (Obi anyone??? LOL)...especially when he's having one of his off days. Not sure who would fit that bill or what kind of trade would work

That kind of deal could not happen unless a 3rd team was involved that would bring back a 4 or Atlanta had a decent 4 to offer.  Also, the way Randle is playing, I think that trading him plus a few 1's would be overpaying.  Randle has been playing at an all star level primarily, in my opinion, because of Brunson being an excellent PG plus OG will take a good amount of load off of Randle.  I still would trade him for the right offer but would want more than I would have wanted last month.

Two words.  Leonard Williams.  Schoen got a 2nd round pick for an older more injury prone player.  Schoen got more than Gettleman overpaid for the player who was good but not close to what he got from Gettleman

Thanks DB.  Thats a player that would help although I dont see creating a weakness at PF to bring back a SG although a guy that could score and play defense well is a major plus.  If the line about Randle is true, a bigger deal and other teams would be involved

I have trouble conjuring up a trade that includes Randall and doesnt bring back a power forward.  I also dont see them trading for Mitchell if only because Cleveland gave up a ton for him and I cant see the Knicjs offering anything remotely close to what Cleveland would ask for.  Plus, he doesn't play defense. 

I don't know much about Murray but have read that the Knicks and Lakers are interested.  Maybe someone can weigh in on what he brings to the table

Who is Mike Scotto?  Does he have any credibility?

I think the trade was good for both teams which is probably the way trades should be made (unless the GM is a Gettleman type).  Last year, the Raptors had multiple chances to trade Van Fleet (sp?) and didn't and ended up with nothing. Personally, I think OG was pretty close to what the Knicks needed and the Precious a guy will also help in a position of need considering the current need at backup center.  Barrett is ok but I don't think will ever be a game changer and I think is easily replaceable.  Quickley will be harder to replace but he's still a bench player although a very good one but he wasn't going to be a starter here unless Brunson got hurt.  Good becnch players are hard to find but easier than quality starters like OG.  But both Barrett and especially Quickley will make the Raptors better but I don't think enough to do much in the playoffs assuming they even get in.  And, that duo is a lot better than losing OG for nothing. 

Both Brunson and Randle are playing at all star levels; neither of them did last year.  If the point made was that they're not as good as the elite teams, I wouldn't argue much.  But, the point that they're not any better last year is off in my opinion.  The injury to Robinson hurts alot and I get your point about the team record. But, I think they have improved and are a better team going forward.  I should add that I expect them to make another move this year before the trade deadline.  Another Hart level player who can play the wing would help

Quote from: Messiah717 on December 29, 2023, 04:08:08 PMI feel the Knicks are improved but pretty much the same team as last year.  They need another piece or they're the same stagnant team.  They will make the playoffs and hopefully win a round which I feel is their ceiling.

It seems to me that you haven't been following the team.  Brunson was good last year in his 1st season but he has stepped up his game to a higher level, maybe a much higher level.  And, whether it's Brunson's doing as an elite point guard (when can that be said about a PG here), Randle's game is way better now than it was last year.  And, they have one of the better benches in the league with Quickley and Hart.  They do need help and it's not likely the big star is coming this year but if they could add a wing who could score and maybe a decent big man, this club will be ascending. Those can be obtained.  They're not as good as they Celtics but they could play with everyone else in the conference.

I have been rooting for the Giants since 1956.  My wife says that she hopes the the guys on the team and the coaches feel as bad after a loss as I do.  When the Giants lose, I am miserable to be around and Ive been pretty miserable the past few years and many others going back to 1956.  But, I've never wavered in how I feel about the team.  If the Giants were to fire Daboll after this year, unless its for a non football reason, I would stop rooting for the team.  Not that he hasn't made mistakes, he has.  All coaches make mistakes.  I totally get why he wants to start Taylor. He has an obligation to win and that obligation also extends to every player on the team who gets paid to win.  He's not thinking on how to develop the back up QB for next year. 

Even if it's the system, and I have very little knowledge of college football except what I read and hear, the questions that come up for me is why Riley hasn't been hired by an NFL team and why teams draft system QBs and then don't use the system that brought them success.