Big Blue Huddle

Schoen should take a lesson from the former Jets GM who passed on drafting Pat Mahomes because he overrated his in house QB (Hackenberg) and assumed he could easily draft a QB the following year if things didn't work out (Darnold). It didn't matter that the player the Jets drafted was an All Pro talent and foundational piece at the time (Jamal Adams).

It's very difficult to come back from passing on a great QB when you don't have one. I don't know if Schoen will have the opportunity to draft a great QB this year, but if he does and chooses not to, that decision will be permanently attached to him.

Speaking of Barkley, is anyone bothered by his response to this tweet?

https://twitter.com/saquon/status/1750908706441637986?t=fMwN11mhZmGatVtJr0nVNg&s=19

Shocking and somewhat comical that you think I've made a "token" argument in this thread. I've been fairly clear (and consistent over the years) on my thoughts regarding the QB position and the QB hell this organization has existed in going on 6 years.

I'll add an additional thought:

3. You are focused on results rather than objectives. If you look at the moves Schoen has made (not the results of those moves), he is clearly trying to build a foundation. Some of you are deflecting the fact that your preferred process is aligned with what Schoen has already done. It didn't work then and is unlikely to work now.

Two additional thoughts for @MightyGiants:

1. That you read my statement as a personal attack says a lot. I challenge you to think more deeply about why I said what I said.

2. No one thinks the team is well built. The difference is some of us have accepted we can't get to well built without a QB.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 26, 2024, 11:23:13 AMThe Giants were the 5th worse team in the league 2 years ago (according to draft position) when Joe and Brian took over.  Two years later, they are now the 6th worst team (and PFF's worst QB support team) in the league.

I struggle to see how the team has "done that" in terms of building out the team.  Plus with all the coaching drama, I am not even sure they have the most basic foundational piece of proper leadership and culture.

Of course you struggle to see it. You spent years building up a mythology around Daniel Jones and now you're disappointed. Just like the rest of the organization, you're stuck in a no man's land (otherwise known as QB hell).

What has the Schoen regime done that you have a problem with? They drafted the best edge rush prospect in their first draft, followed by a so-called can't miss ORT, followed by a dynamic slot receiver. Then they drafted a guy with shutdown corner ability, followed by the best Center prospect, followed by a deep threat WR.

They locked up All Pro talents at DT and OLT,and signed a near All Pro performer at ILB, all of whom are universally viewed as foundational pieces.

They've followed the roster building playbook exactly how any person who wants to diminish the impact of the QB position would want to build a roster.

The problem is the players they drafted aren't as good as their draft position would indicate (sound familiar?).

The coaching staff is a mess. The GM may or may not be in over his head. We don't know yet.

Where is this so-called plan for building the foundation and how is it any different than the plan they implemented over the last two years? Find better players. Beyond that, what? Wait for the Daboll/Schoen regime to implode (like so many of their predecessors)? What are we trying to get done here?

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 26, 2024, 10:59:19 AMThe plan is for you to start at the foundation.  You have the proper leadership that sets a winning culture and way of doing things.  With that in place, you start building up your talent, starting with the trenches.   You always keep an eye on the chance to acquire a franchise-caliber QB, but you don't compromise or reach on that acquisition. If it's not there, you keep on building up the team.   The better the team is when you draft the QB the better the chances that QB has of succeeding.

MG, they've literally done that the last two years. You don't like the results but you think the results will be different over the next two years?

Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 10:16:29 AMThis is not a big story.  One guy's opinion. He's entitled to it, just like all of us.

It may not be a big story to us, but we don't really know how the story will play out in the locker room. We've heard stories of toxic Giants locker rooms in the not distant past, and from what I understand it's an unwritten rule that you never publicly talk about your teammates contracts (other than maybe generic congratulations).

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 26, 2024, 10:52:48 AMSince before Eli "got old" the offensive line has been a problem.  Receiver hasn't been much better with the exception of a couple of the OBJ years.  Coaching has been an issue since the Giants moved on from Coughlin.  GM hasn't exactly been a strength since Reese had a couple of good years early in his career.

QB was going to be a "problem" regardless of who was throwing the football.  QBs can't do it all by themselves they need support of the team they play on.

This is a laundry list of complaints, not a plan. What's the plan other than pray for better draft picks? At least building around a new QB is a plan we can all wrap our heads around.

Quote from: T200 on January 26, 2024, 10:51:29 AMNope. Don't like it.

We don't have a QB on the roster who can stay healthy. They can barely get the ball to the receivers they have now. And we should add another? Pass (pun intended)

Right, and then to follow up with another WR in round 3 is bizarre. Looks like a Jerry Reese draft.

I think Nabers is a home run but will he end up like Garrett Wilson on this team.

I'll be disappointed if they wait until the fourth round for OL.

Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 10:21:50 AMDoc: Re-read the comment quoted in the original post.

It's about "average team PFF rush, receiving, pass blocking and run blocking grades (everything except passing").

To me, it's an argument that the problem is not the QB (it seems to show that the problem is supporting cast and depth).

Bob

Obviously I disagree with your interpretation.

The major problem with this team since Eli got old is the QB position. Every other role has been turned over multiple times to no effect.

Either way, the supporting cast was extremely weak when they invested first round picks in Thibs, Neal, and Banks, second round picks in Robinson and JMS, and third round picks in Ezeudu, Flott, and Hyatt. There is no reason to believe, outside of blind faith, that if the Schoen regime continues to draft the way it has, that the supporting cast will improve to a championship or near championship level... which is the entire point of all of this.

Although, in the case of the Giants, perhaps winning a championship isn't the primary goal. I was listening to a podcast the other day, I think it was Lombardi, and he was talking about how Bill Walsh used to say he was only competing with about 6 other teams for championships. According to Lombardi, the other teams are primarily focused on keeping their jobs rather than building a program.

The Giants primary issues are first bad culture which allows for low expectations and excuse making. Second, poor QB play. And third, lack of talent and player development.

This is an organization that spins its wheels so consistently, they cut Kevin Zeitler so they could sign Kyle Rudolph.

Watch how quickly things change if they're able to get Jayden Daniels. The players they do have are going to look so much better.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 25, 2024, 06:29:17 PMAnd once again, they did not follow my advice and right the ship because that involves bringing in talented players who produce. They have not done that at all.

Under Schoen they used first round picks on Thibs, Neal, and Banks. If their next three first round picks are equivalent to these three, and we still don't have a QB, this team isn't going to be any better than it is today. You're hoping for better picks, which is fair, we all want that. But without a legitimate franchise QB to tie everything together, it's not going to work.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 25, 2024, 06:24:42 PM. What franchise QB is going to be available at #6? None. Which QB is worth trading a ransom of picks for when the team has a million holes? None. So what's your plan?

If there is no franchise QB available in April then the entire discussion is moot. If you get the opportunity to get one of the big-3 QBs you take him. If you can't  get one of the three then it is what it is. But you don't pass on any of the three because of some misguided belief that you can build out a playoff roster then fill in the QB position at a later date. That is just institutionalizing the concept of QB hell. As it is the Giants have institutionalized low expectations and excuse making.

Kayvon should stop doing interviews. He's going to hurt himself in the long run by running his mouth.