Big Blue Huddle

No one said it is easy, but you gotta keep trying until you find it.

"The NFL Hall of Famer said: "Quarterback is the only position where teams will pay you and hope you get better.

"All the other positions you've got to show you are worthy and deserving of that payday."

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/9239859/first-take-shannon-sharpe-danny-crimes/

https://gmenhq.com/posts/reasons-ny-giants-move-on-from-daniel-jones-01hbzyex1m75


4. The contract doesn't make Daniel Jones the long-term answer

When Schoen signed Jones to the four-year, $160 million deal, he did so at the very last second. Earlier on in the negotiations, Schoen had a number in mind. Jones' camp reportedly wanted as high as $47 million per season, which the Giants weren't going to meet. This led to the negotiations being dragged out to the final day of the franchise tag deadline, in which, Jones got the deal signed before 4 p.m., and then the Giants had to quickly turn and submit the tag on Saquon Barkley.

The nay-sayers on Jones always felt that Barkley should have gotten paid before Jones did given Barkley was the more proven commodity to the team over Jones. Maybe the Giants should have let Jones test the market in free agency and come back to the Giants if he couldn't get what he wanted. Some even felt the Giants panicked when they signed Jones to that deal because no other team was giving him that kind of money.

After all, during the same free agency period, the Seahawks gave Geno Smith a three-year, $75 million deal. The Saints gave Derek Carr a five-year, $125 million deal. The Raiders gave Jimmy Garoppolo a three-year, $67.5 million deal. Many felt those deals were not only fair, but that they were also team-friendly. Jones had just delivered the Giants their first playoff win since Super Bowl 46 and the Giants didn't want to run the risk of going into 2023 without a quarterback set, so Jones was it.

But the contract came with a catch. Two possible outs. The first one comes after the 2024 season. The Giants can cut Jones after the 2024 season and save $19 million in salary cap space with a $22 million dead cap hit. If you really want to know when this is coming, it will be in April's 2024 NFL Draft.

With the way the season is progressing, the Giants could be in line for a top draft pick and then the decision looms. Will they stick with Jones past the 2024 season? Or will the Giants decide to take their own quarterback? In the first two drafts under Schoen and Brian Daboll, they have passed on them. But they might not in this third one.

3. Daniel Jones is regressing back to previous mistakes

What is most concerning here for Jones isn't just the losing of games during the 2023 season. It's how he is losing them. It's a lot of what happened early on his career that is starting to come back into 2023. The same mistakes that we all thought Daboll and Mike Kafka worked with and fixed a season ago.

Missing reads and receivers down the field? There have been several plays where someone like Jalin Hyatt was deep down the field wide open for an explosive play, but Jones didn't look his way. Or Wan'Dale Robinson was wide open to the point where he is jumping up and down and waving his arms up at Jones, but the ball doesn't find its way to him because Jones doesn't get it. Or Darren Waller finding his way into the end zone wide open for a touchdown that could bring the Giants back into a game they desperately need to win. But instead, Jones never looks his way and tosses a pick-six.

As Devon Witherspoon said on Monday night, Jones is being scouted by opposing defenses as someone who stares down his first target and throws it that way. Another common rookie mistake. Except Jones is in his fifth year as a pro and he's paid like a starting quarterback who isn't supposed to be making those kind of mistakes. These are all things that might be past a coaching thing. These might be the characteristics of a player who will continue to revert back to what they do.

And granted, Jones has been playing behind the worst offensive line in the league, according to Pro Football Focus. They've ranked the Giants dead last since the end of Week 1. But the issues Jones has had don't involve the poor play of the offensive line. These issues are on Jones himself. Maybe the contract gave him too much of a false sense of confidence.

2. The New York market could be too big for Danny Dimes

Sometimes, players just need a fresh start after being in one place for so long. In Jones' case, he's seen a lot of losing football since he took the reigns from Eli Manning. He's seen several head coaches, offensive coordinators, wide receivers and many offensive linemen during his time here.

Sometimes, it just might not be good enough in the end. They say New York is not for everybody. The media is constantly at you. The fans can turn on you in the blink of an eye. For Jones, the minute he was drafted, a lot of fans didn't even want him here to begin with. The lights are the brightest and some can crumble under them.

Jones is 1-12 in primetime games with the world watching. Not exactly a vote of confidence for the $160 million man that is expected to lead the team into the future. Giants co-owner John Mara even once said, "We've done a lot to screw him up," when talking about the QB. Maybe Mara is right. Maybe too many coaching changes mixed with the losing has been too much.

Maybe Jones needs a fresh start elsewhere. Given the current contract, Jones likely isn't getting traded anytime soon, so Jones may not see a fresh start until after 2024. But maybe that is what is best for his career: a lesser-impact media market on a new team to try and turn his career around.

As hard as Jones has tried to be the guy, maybe he just isn't meant to be the guy. It took the Giants 11 years to find the right QB after Phil Simms with Manning. Jones, outside of last season, hasn't lived up to the hype.

1. Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll can pick their guy

In the end, you have to remember one thing. Most general managers and head coaches like to pick their guys. And in this case, they like to pick their own starting quarterback.

Jones was inherited by the current regime. His fifth-year option was not picked up, even if in hindsight, Schoen admits that he should have done so. Daboll initially put Jones in tough situations in training camp to see if Jones could win him over - and he did. But here's the truth, Jones didn't overwhelm the new regime into thinking he was the long-term answer, he had to show them he belonged.

Even with the 2022 season that featured a playoff berth and a win, the Giants brass still wasn't completely sold that Jones was the guy long term. The contract and the possible outs involved to cut Jones after 2024 or 2025 show that. If not, then there are no outs and the Giants are with Jones until the end of the 2026 season. However, Schoen and Daboll still wanted to be sure that Jones could take the next step and built those "in case of emergency" escape clauses in Jones' deal. And if they needed to use them, then it gives Schoen and Daboll a chance to do something all regimes like to do.

They get to pick their own quarterback. Ernie Accorsi got to when he made the trade on the day of the 2004 NFL Draft for Manning. Jerry Reese never got to pick one of his own, but instead, inherited Manning and the two Super Bowl championships that came with it. He tried to get Patrick Mahomes back in 2017, but Andy Reid and the Kansas City Chiefs beat everyone to the punch. Dave Gettleman got to pick his own with Jones.

Schoen inherited Jones, but unlike Reese with Manning, there hasn't been a championship trophy with Jones that prevents Schoen from looking elsewhere. With a draft class that will have a lot of quarterbacks possibly featured as first-round picks, Schoen will be tempted to go after one. And with Jones' contract built the way it is, along with the season the Giants are having, the writing could be on the wall for Danny Dimes.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 12:06:40 PMWaller is not better than Mike Williams. I mean come on already...

Never said he is. I said he can offset him more or less

I would rather take a healthy Waller over the 2-3 games a year Williams suits up though.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:54:08 AMPlease show my evaluation of him. I am literally advocating in this thread to draft a QB and that Jones cannot prop up middling teams. So, please be fair and honest when you speculate what I think.

Well for one, you seem to think he doesn't have enough to work with, when he is missing receivers who are WIDE OPEN against nfl defenses and time to get it to them. And over-blaming the OL for things that are not their fault. They aren't good, but not as bad as some want to paint the picture of.

So pardon me, for not thinking you have a solid understanding of what we do have on the team.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:59:47 AMEkeler, Allen, and Williams are on par with barkley, Slayton, and Hodgins? let me guess mixon, boyd, higgins, and chase are on the same level as them too? I have heard of it all now.

Oh by the way, herbert really struggled this past week without Ekeler and Williams. Yes they won, but if you want to argue a 54% completion percentage with one TD and one INT is a special performance, then so be it.

Ekeler and Barkley are about equal

Waller can offset Williams more or less, and we have more depth and a better TE room. 

Not hard to see.  He never said they were on par, Chargers are still a bit better at the top of the depth chart.

Bengals WRS are better, Barkley is much better than Mixon though.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:50:18 AMWow. I am not even going to respond to this. Sorry, but you are WAY overvaluing our players.

Our elite player is Thomas and our two very good players are Lawrence and Barkley. Everyone else is average or much worse.

You just did

You also are WAY overvaluing the QB

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:43:03 AMIts tough to have exchanges and back and forth with statements like this. Not one person said he neede 10 elite teammates surrounding him.

It could be easily argued with what he worked with last week and this week, we dont even have 1 average player around him.

To say he doesn't have a single average player, after DANIEL egregiously missed Waller open in the end zone along with other plays that have been shared multiple times in others topics, while also being responsible for most of the sacks, is a poor evaluation of what has gone wrong with this offense.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:40:41 AMWhat good players do they have?

I am very curious to hear this.

Darren Waller is a legit #1 option, he has been wide open plenty of times but Jones can't read defenses to get it to him

Wandale and Hyatt are high draft picks and have been plenty open in similar fashion. They have big play ability.

We have an All Pro left tackle

Saquon Barkley is a top 10 RB, probably higher

Slayon and Hodgins are very capable #2s

They have a 2nd round pick at center

EZ has showed competency at tackle, at worst he is a quality, valuable depth oiece across the whole OL minus center

Bellinger is a strong #2 TE, he can start for several teams.

DJ is simply not the guy, it is what it is, the more its excused the more you'll be let down

If a QB needs 5 elite starters on the OL in perfect harmony, elite WRs, TEs and RBs, and whatever else you want to prop him up with, then he is not the guy

Maybe we should stop giving KT so much hate? Maybe if his rookie CBs started playing like prime Revis, he would have more time to get to the QB. Moreso making a point, not defending nor advocating for KT just an example.

Terrible off base article

Enough excuses

The OL sucks, but DJ is not the guy, many of the sacks are his fault, as are his piss poor decisions.

Can't blame the OL for that

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:21:46 AMUnless they actually get good players. But this process is going to take awhile.

They have good players, they can add all the good players they want. If DJ is the QB it has become evident that it likely will not matter.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 11:15:00 AMCould he be? Yes. But it would have to be on a team like SF or Philly. They have a lot of top end talent that could mask Jones' weaknesses.

I dont think he could go a middling team and make them a contender.

This is all the Giants need to know, to know what their next move should be.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 06, 2023, 10:08:33 AMIf you're a franchise QB in season 5 who was just handed a large contract extension the expectations are going to be higher than they are for a rookie or second year QB still learning how to play the position at this level.  Fair or unfair Jones being in his fifth year with his contract means his play is going to get criticized more just as it is for any player in his position who has the professional career he's had to this point.

As far as getting rid of the ball quickly meaning that he can't go downfield I point to this play a few years ago that was getting rid of the ball quickly and anticipating the play while going deep all at the same time.  Something most elite veteran QB's do on a regular basis.  https://twitter.com/bobbyskinner_/status/1204229461312516096?s=61

Pretty interesting thatSlayton had one of his very best games Eli, if this is the game I think it is.

This the one he had 150yds right?

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 09:30:49 AMI think this should be noted as well when it comes to our offense including QBs and OL.

Our RBs this year have 60 carries for 190 yards. As you can see there are a lot more problems this year than just the QB. Whats teh common them for a poor passing game and a poor running game?

A very poor OL.

Yeah, it has already been established many of those sacks were Jones' fault, Barkley is hurt, and Breida is average at best. Brightwell is useless and Gray hasn't gotten a chance yet

Not sure what the point is you're trying to make, seems like excuses are being made here since no one claims the OL is good, no one claims that Jones is the only problem. He is the most expensive one, and due to his position the biggest one