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Messages - Philosophers

#1396
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Fixing The NY Giants
February 25, 2024, 07:11:11 PM
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on February 25, 2024, 06:42:22 PMLet's not overstate the value of a second round pick. The last three second rounders are JMS, Wandale, and Azeez. Anyone in their right mind would trade those three guys for a legitimate franchise QB prospect.

Second round picks are valuable, but let's not kid ourselves on how much they're actually worth.

Well seconds rounds have also produced Michael Strahan, Rob Gronkowski, Derrick Henry, Drew Brees, Brett Favre
#1397
Big Blue Huddle / What Made Chris Snee So Good?
February 25, 2024, 06:13:00 PM
Chris Snee is the type of talent at Guard the Giants need.  What made him so good?  What did he not do well?
#1398
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Fixing The NY Giants
February 25, 2024, 06:03:14 PM
If they try to fix the Giants and decide on a QB they cannot in my opinion trade up and give up draft capital as too many holes to plug.

Draft a QB, a stud WR and two guards who can compete to start like Zak Zinter.
#1399
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Drake Maye thread
February 25, 2024, 05:58:36 PM
Quote from: Ed Vette on February 25, 2024, 11:00:22 AMWith a tight spiral. Maye can do that. McCarthy tends to air mail it and it dies off on very deep passes as I mentioned weeks ago.

I think the way people are describing it, it sounds like JJ has Chad Pennington's arm.  I've seen all his throws.  Super tight spiral and a very good arm.  His balls do not float.  Whoever thinks that has not seen him play.  His problem in my opinion is that sometimes his deep throws are too much on a rope and not enough air to allow a WR to run under and adjust.
#1400
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 25, 2024, 02:04:41 PMI totally get that. It speaks to how good their running game was and how it was the key to their success against the best teams. What it doesn't necessarily do is support the argument that McCarthy is a great pick at 6th overall.

Dave - my suggestion would be to instead of defining greatness by volume, do it based on what he did throw.  Do you like his decisions, his reads, his throws, his choices to run vs pass or vice versa? 
#1401
Quote from: Ed Vette on February 25, 2024, 05:28:25 PMJust ask Jalin Hyatt.

Yes 100%.  If pass protection was consistently good, he'd have had a lot more throws to him.

#1402
How does a WR run a 40 yard route without good pass blocking?  Answer:  He can't.  Pass blocking is essential to a downfield passing game.  If all you want to do is throw 4 yard passes it is less necessary but then again, a defense will bring one or two safeties in the box which will stop it.  Need a vertical passing game or real threat of it and that takes pass blocking to generate time for a QB.
#1403
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 24, 2024, 04:24:45 PMI'm more focused on the big games he played against top competition, not the season in its totality. That he threw a lot in the first half of the game against someone like Rutgers or Northwestern and then didn't throw much in the second half makes sense. No issues there.

My concern lies more with Harbaugh's lack of use of the passing game in the four toughest games they played all season: Washington, Alabama, PSU, and OSU. Those were their four games against top 10 teams, and McCarthy had 73 attempts in those four games (about 18 per on average). Moreover his passing yardage was pretty low in those four games (average of 117 passing yards per game). So about 6.5 YPA in those games with not many attempts. To me that's the concern here. I don't care as much what he did against the East Carolinas, UNLVs, and Bowling Greens of the world.

In Michigan's four toughest games here are their rushing stats.

Penn St - 46 rushes for 227 yards
Ohio State - 39 rushes for 156 yards
Alabama - 32 rushes for 130 yards
Washington - 38 rushes for 303 yards

Michigan did not have to throw it 40 times to win those games.
#1404
Quote from: zephirus on February 23, 2024, 10:53:54 AMHonestly it's this kind of thinking that has me avoid talking about the draft.  You know who was a "really good" wide receiver?  Odell Beckham Jr.  Antics/behavior aside, this guy was on an absolutely meteoric pace his first few years in the league.  He was destroying records held by Randy Moss and other Hall of Famers.  And the Giants continued to lose.  He made insane one-hand grabs despite being interfered with.  And the Giants continued to lose.  Well surely that must be the result of STILL not having enough "weapons"?!?!?!  So 4 years later we go out and get Saquon Barkley instead of trading down and taking Quenton Nelson who has 4 All-Pros and 6 Pro Bowls to his name.  And the year before that we also over-looked the line and went for Evan Engram.

But yes, please let's go get another wide receiver.

I have thought of this but we cant be hampered by the past.  We need talent.  What we really need is a great OL  That drives everything.

We just need to get mature talent not immature divas.
#1405
Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 23, 2024, 10:27:52 AMOdunze is the boundary version of AJ Brown in my opinion. Put AJ Browns skillset in DK Metcalf and you have Rome Odunze.

Size and speed at WR is a terrifying concept for a defense.  I like Nabers a lot but LSU WR diva attitudes scare me.
#1406
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 23, 2024, 09:13:36 AMQ. You made a comment that Rome Odunze was your favorite player in
the draft. I've seen your breakdown on him, but could you elaborate a
little more on why you like him so much?

DANIEL JEREMIAH: Sure. I like big, fast, physical, smart, tough guys who
can go play above the rim and who have some route polish to them. As a
player I love what he has from a skill set standpoint. I think all of it translates.
I think when you look at big games I games in the NFL, especially going to the
postseason, I think some of that space disappears. You have to have guys
who can win with bodies around them. He can do that.
That's not to say he can't run. You'll see it when he gets to the combine, he
can run too. There's that side of it.
I love there's a bounce and an energy to him that I love. I love the fact that
even though you might have to coach some of this out of him, he hates
running out of bounds. You'll see the competitiveness in him. When he is on
the sideline, he tries to get everything he can get. He is a real, real
competitive football player.
Some of the stuff that I hear talking to sources and connections up there is
that the guy is incredibly bright. He is a great leader. He knows every spot on
the -- in the receiving room. He can play anywhere. He has been training with
Ricky Proehl, and Proehl said he is as smart of a receiver as he has ever
been around. Those things are great.
Even a little story from my buddy Brock up there, he told me that he is such a
good kid. They had an event where they had a fishing tournament fundraiser
thing that they did.
So he met this fishing captain. Never fished a day in his life. He goes out there
with this guy and has a good time and asked the fishing captain for his
number afterwards. The fishing captain didn't think anything of it. Whatever,
this guy is never going to call me.
Brock said that he ran into him months later, this fishing captain, and he said
that Rome Odunze and him go out fishing all the time, and he is the nicest guy
in the world, just a great dude. It's almost too good to be true with everything I
hear about this kid. I love the way that he plays.


That was quite an informative post about his intangibles.  Loved it.  Thank you.

You just answered a question I posted earlier.  If we go WR, I want someone who makes our other WRs better.
#1407
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Let's talk about Jayden Daniels
February 22, 2024, 09:02:40 PM
Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 21, 2024, 09:21:46 PMEhhh But was the BIG the best defensive conference? I'd argue that most all of the teams in the conference just all had horrible offenses.

Penn st had arguably the best defense in the country and ole miss put up 540 total yards on them with ease.

Tennessee in a down year put 35 on Iowa who supposedly had an elite defense.

Just saying perception was they had the best defenses but in reality I think it was because they all played bad offenses.

I actually think it was a combo.  Some good defenses and aome really bad offenses.

I also dint look at single game exceptions.

As to the SEC vs Big 10 debate, I think over the past 15-20 years teams ranked 2-3 to last were pretty even between the conferences however the SEC's top team dominated over either conference.
#1408
I want a big very fast very physical WR with the maturity to challenge the other WRs to do everything better — better routes, better fakes, more film study, everything.  Who is that prospect?
#1409
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 22, 2024, 01:04:10 PMRight now, it sounds like both Barkley and McKinney are long shots to be re-signed to the Giants.

Last October, the Giants were realistically out of the playoffs.   Before the Oct 31 deadline, NYG traded away Leonard Williams for a 2nd round pick. Yet, if they didn't plan on re-signing McKinney and Barkley, why didn't they trade them away as well???

Had they done that, I don't think we would have had the 3 game-winning streak and Devito mania.  I think the Giants would have ended the season with a draft pick in the top 3. Plus (and I will be conservative), they would have had two more 3rd round picks.

So, instead of the Giant's current situation being a ton of needs and little need to fulfill all those needs, they would have had enough resources to get a QB, get a quality WR, fix the O-line, and prevent any significant holes.

So why the half measures?   Was Mara adamant he didn't want to be embarrassed again by a very poor finish?   Did Schoen believe the team still could make the playoffs (and DJ's 2nd neck injury was no big deal)?

Sometimes, you need to take a small step back to take a big step forward.  It's frustrating that, for whatever reason, the Giants didn't see that reality.

Brilliant email Rich.

We knew DeVito would not make us a playoff team.  More importantly, we knew that as much as we may like Saquon Barkley, he has few good years remaining and for a team in a huge rebuild would probably be more valuable to a contending team.  We might have gotten a 3rd rounder for him. That would have been very valuable.
#1410
I agree 100%.  My problem is if Malik Nabers cant be more than 7 yards from the LOS because the Giants QB continues to be under siege, then how valuable is Malik Nabers?