Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 16, 2023, 09:01:51 AMThings were looking good for most of the game

Things started to look bad

The Giants rally to give us hope

They only raised us up with that hope to rip it (and our hearts) away at the last possible second

 

same ole same ole, nothing new-  Unfortunately was waiting on it.

Been calling him out for a very long time... Loyalty is huge, blind loyalty is another thing.

Sucks, hope he will be okay. Wish him well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 10, 2023, 09:18:13 AMI have to look at what changed on this line from last season to this one.   

1)  Assist O-line coach Tony Sprano Jr. left to the Colts (their line is 13th in pass blocking and 6th in run blocking per PFF).  I actually heard a podcast where someone other than me brought up this point.  The person on the pod thought it was odd for an assistant to have such an impact, but that assistant is doing quite well as the man in charge of a unit, so there's that.

2)  They lost Feliciano and Gates.  I suspect they took much of the veteran leadership and toughness with them

Interesting 1st point. But the coach needs to be fired.

Feliciano was okay, somewhere between Ben and Glo. Gates I hated to see him leave as he was our best center when he played and he could have been a solid guard & backup center.

Always starts with the HC then OL & ST coach. Wink side has improved a tad but still issues and bad tackling. And I'm starting to think we need to move on from Xavier. Evan seems to be making at least one crazy head scratching play a game. From blocking his own team mate to blocking thin air.

Quote from: T200 on October 10, 2023, 11:21:42 AMPosting viewpoints from pros, beat writers, analysts, or even other fans is a great thing. I appreciate different perspectives. I don't have to agree with them but I also don't rail against them. Personally, I wouldn't have had an issue with your post if it wasn't for the "Funny how the pros and announcers can see the issue, yet others are blinded by their own Bias." you led off with.

As far as the intellectual dishonesty goes, you stated that there wasn't as much as a squeak when Jones played well. I said there were plenty of squeaks after the Arizona win. In fact, a thread was LOCKED because the squeaks weren't loud enough.

1- I used it as a way to jest to show the other side can do the same thing. But in all honesty as you say, they have to look at all things and decide for themselves. I have no issues with anyone posting things pro/con as it may open my eyes or give me another point of view, maybe it changes my mind, maybe it doesn't. But once u start beating a dead horse you made your point then I ignore/move on.

2- For the Ari posted I watched a bit then left. I posted in there, I saw many people who supported him post in there and some who come down on him, not post or backhanded compliments as per usual. So I stopped going in there. But if the haters or "realists" never said anything there, or backhanded compliments. I believe that supports my statement.

3- And we can agree to disagree. I actually do that quite often & move on. Did it several times in her already.

Quote from: T200 on October 10, 2023, 09:15:20 AMYes, they post a lot about Jones and it's all repetitive. Nothing new.

But it does not equate to bashing. It's misrepresentation like this that fuels the back and forth.

The incessant repetition is more akin to dead horse beating.

Really? The whole world knows their opinions and saying it obviously or overtly is not bashing? You can criticize the player, the plays but when everything is the same or sounds the same at what point do you put a cork in it? At what point is that not bullying/bashing. Your analogy of beating a dead horse is perfect example of bashing. Beating dead horse implies what? And then saying (bashing) the same thing over and over. Seems like bashing to me. Yes there are people similar on the other side. Still same crap, different smell.

Quote from: T200 on October 10, 2023, 08:26:35 AM2 - There's a difference between posting content for the forum to digest and putting your own spin on it.

3 - Your response speaks directly to my point about intellectual dishonesty. Go back to the day after the Arizona win and you'll see plenty of squeaks about Jones.

4 - Not agreeing on a topic is not the same as twisting someone's words. Huge difference and too many people create strawmen to argue against and it causes threads to go off the rails because no one wants to be misinterpreted and go into defense mode.

5 - Yes, there is a block feature. Rich and the moderation team have routinely suggested and requested that members use it. Unfortunately, as a moderator, we don't have that luxury. Despite having that feature, it doesn't give members the go-ahead to be aggressive (passively or directly), twists words, or otherwise disrespect other members and then say, "If you don't like what I'm saying, block me."

Frustration is one thing. Arguing about who is more to blame or who deserves the most credit is childish at best. It screams "I need attention!" and it's a huge turn off. Very few people here agree to disagree. The same few people bring up Jones in every thread. The same few people deflect from Jones in every thread. Both sides are annoying as hell.

1- Some people post to get their point across from the pros (good/bad) others post for debate or just to inform.

2- Not sure if you are calling me intellectually dishonest. But I have praised and criticized DJ from the start. But vs Arizona I may have posted in only one thread about him (also spoke about st, etc), as u said there are many threads on him ad nauseam. So the people who supported him or neutral posted. Many who are "against" him not much of a squeak. I post in both pro/con and neutral, win/lose or draw. But I limit them because it is tedious and repetitive and much of it is out of context.

But just like the old forums with the Eli debate at a point I totally ignored them all. Even after Eli won people still either gave him a short leash or wanted him gone. Seems similar to what we got here. DJ hasn't won't a SB (and may never will) but you get the same feeling as when Eli & TC heads were called for to be fired.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 05:39:24 AMYep keep up the Jones needs everything else around him to be at an elite level because he isn't

Again you showing ur truth.

First I never said DJ at the moment or near future will be elite. Time will tell what he is. So nice try.

Second I said he needs an average oline at least (where did you see me say elite?).

Third - it be nice if he had a #1 wr, but again that wasn't needed if our "speed" guys can get separation and hold on to the ball and/or not drop instantly. Not to mention worst rated wr core.

So if that is elite, not sure what you are reading or seeing. Again, keep it up.

Quote from: T200 on October 09, 2023, 11:41:36 PMFirst, we're all biased.

Second, just because a pro or two agrees with your line of thinking doesn't make you right.

Third, no one on this site has said the offensive line is not a problem. I challenge you or anyone to find a single post that genuinely claims that Jones is the sole problem with this offense.

Last, the intellectual DIShonesty on this site is absurd. The words are WRITTEN for everyone to see, yet some of you read and misinterpret how you see fit so long as it lines up with your own personal narrative.

Not sure how much more I can take of this place.

1- Bias can be case be case basis. Fair point.

2- Putting posts up and people can decide how to digest the information & if it holds any weight (or is it only one side allowed, not the other or even a middle ground?).

I have knocked players I fully supported like Eli with his TO's (some due to wrs) but that was early on generally and his horrible sliding. Tiki when he was fumbling. Majority was self-inflicted, others were not. But it was all in context and need some patience. Again context.

3- Oh I have seen insinuations of it just being DJ, or any time to knock him, but when he has played great, not even a squeak. Again he can be blamed for things no doubt, but gotta see the big picture. I mentioned before how have the top players looked when their oline plays horrible. And all qbs have bad throws, seen quite a few this weekend even from great qbs. Now if it is an easy layups & becomes a trend, then it is a concern. How about that dime he dropped into waller near the end zone that he dropped?

4- I joined this site a long time ago, but just recently started being active. It reminds me of the old Giants forums, maybe not to that extreme. You have 2 sides who occasionally meet in the middle. As well as some who are neutral. And all sides have their moments when they get frustrated with our favorite team & need to let off some steam whether it is warranted or not.

Then you have trolls that want to have their fun (no matter the side).

5- Not sure if they have the feature for the forum, if not maybe they can add it. A block user feature. Helps you ignore the person/people you want.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 06:57:15 PMOffensive line needs to be in the 1-5 range for Daniel Jones anything less is unacceptable. 

It was obvious from the start, because you make it so easy. Keep at it! 

Quote from: GMenRF on October 09, 2023, 03:14:52 PMThe things is the Jones haters would be the first ones to throw a block party when we draft a new QB next season.  The problem is with the line being trash the way it is, we are on the same road of screwing the development of that kid.

Fans here don't realize how tough DJ is with his size and build.  Now you put a smaller QB in there in this trash of an oline and that kid will be on the IR by week 5.

On a side note, why TF is Bobby Johnson still a coach for this team.  You figure given how bad this oline is on epic proportions he would have been given the pink slip already.  Back up DEs and DTs are teeing off our QB looking like the next coming of LT against our oline.  I swear if anything, these bums are dogging it out there.

The simple assignment of picking up a twist looks like advance calculus for our guys.

Exactly. No matter who the QB is, if that line isn't fixed from dead last to 15-20 range, it won't matter. Then the same old song and dance will come out. We need ANOTHER new qb. Unless of course the QB that was taken they have a man crush on, then they will give them till the end of time.

Grass is not always greener & I agree the Oline & ST coaches needed to be fired last year. No excuses. Those two areas are the worst and for some reason so if the wr group. Catch and drop, catch & fall right down, barely getting separation. Then again, that can be partially the line not holding up to give them time.

They have similar wr speed as the Fins and there is nothing there. Maybe it is the play calling as well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 10:33:24 AMI see Dan quietly (I consider that a lack of character; own up to your mistakes, don't hide them) deleted his post because he realized he was wrong to blame Jones for that play.

Dan is a joke & was a terrible qb, but they listen. Same as you have with Marc Ross talking on NFL Network as a Pro when he was a failure.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:19:07 AMSometimes, we have seen such QBs do well later in their careers.  Look at Geno Smith or Rich Gannon as two examples (Randy Mueller had more examples in his latest podcast but I can't remember them).

True but unfortunately just by your numbers alone there have been several since the draft started & of course you find same rare (a bit better there) gems in the later rounds.

If they don't fix the oline I rather see DJ be a good/great qb on another team that gives him a legit chance, then killed behind our oline. Felt the same way when people were thinking Eli may go to another team. Now if we were to play them Giants come first and always will, otherwise wish former giant players who played hard & had class the best, except when they play us.

Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 09, 2023, 10:58:43 AMHere's the problem- it actually doesn't matter if Daniel Jones could have been a good QB behind a competent OL at this point (I am one who 100% believes he could have been).  Unfortunately - it's irrelevant.  He's been pressured and hit so consistently now that his timing/clock in the pocket will never be the same.  I hate to say it but what I see is a broken QB and it's hardly the guy's fault.  But again, I don't think it matters.  It is what it is and barring some sort of heavenly intervention that fixes our OL and makes them not just average but VERY GOOD in pass pro, any success DJ may have will simply prolong the inevitable replacement.   

That is also my concern to a degree (Ala David Carr). But he was getting killed since joining the team and last year he did his best with what he had he. He may still be able to salvage it if they fix the line by next year. Otherwise there is only so much someone can take.