Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 01:14:46 PMIf the Giants want to fix their O-line once and for all, they will find a really good (not just adequate) offensive line coach.  Teams with great O-line coaches not only have good lines, but they are also the teams that tend to draft and develop O-line talent well.  They will usually have a few quality O-linemen that were day two or day three picks.

Agreed. didnt seattle have all backups playing against us, yet still looked functional? thats just good coaching. something we do not have.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 14, 2023, 01:04:11 PMQuite a few examples of highly rated OTs failing in the NFL, but carve out a decent career as an OG (Robert Gallery comes to mind)

justin pugh also comes to mind.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 16, 2023, 04:08:50 PMAs opposed to the bad Qb and hole we are already in?

At least taking two you are giving your franchise a chance. Instead of banging their heads against the rock that is Jones for a couple more seasons.

just to add to the crazy, what if jones lights it up next year? now you got an incumbent qb already under contract, and 2 guys no one really knows if they are gonna be anything? idk. just seems like too many what if's.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 15, 2023, 09:08:56 AMI trust them, I was just saying in this hypothetical were we have #1 and #2 I'm taking both Qbs and having another team pay me a ransom post draft to get one of them.

and if no one ponies up, and they both suck? man.. thats a 5 year hole right there.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 16, 2023, 03:59:26 PMYou realize that is Peter King's words, not mine.   

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 16, 2023, 03:57:26 PMI can't believe you said the jury is still out on Daniel Jones. What will it take for you to declare a verdict.

while it does sound absurd, its a fairly unique situation. guy gets way overdrafted, brought in to the worst team in the league, has dog$hit receivers most of his career, BRUTAL oline, 3 head coaches, multiple coordinators, injuries, etc. some will call it excuses. maybe most of it is. but can you name another QB who had to deal with something like that, short of david carr? i do believe the jury is still slightly out on him. will he ever be great? it does not appear likely. but its really hard to show off what you got when you got nothing to work with. you have to admit that he's had it harder than arguably any qb of all time.

is there any empirical evidence that this directly correlates to better results? i feel like a majority of coordinators are in the booth these days.

its true. you just never know. and then you get the russ wilsons, the dak prescotts, the brock purdys, that if hindsight was 20/20, could all very easily have been #1 overall picks.

I think hes being nice, but also probably does still have a great deal of insider info. jones will be back next year and will 95% be the starter if he's healthy

Quote from: JT39 on November 12, 2023, 10:01:06 PMEver in my life.

I am not going to lie. I watched maybe 12 plays. And no I didn't expect a win. I expected the outcome that arrived. It's basically the same stuff each and every week. We can compete against bad teams or heavily injured teams. And get smoked by anyone decent. Some thoughts.

- I would get rid of Daboll and Schoen after the season. This whole notion that they should pick their QB is nonsense. First off Schoen hasn't shown the ability to pick anything draft pick right outside some complementary players. Our coaching staff sucks right now.
   - the challenge on the first drive was absolutely ridiculous. Just shows he is not under control and just flies off the seat of his pants.
   - we are utterly embarrassed and not ready to play every week. Don't give me the jets or the commanders. Rodgers would have destroyed us and Howell is a below average QB.

- we have to get rid of these losing players on the team immediately. Ojuiari, Shepard, Campbell, Holmes, Slayton, Barkley, McKinney, and maybe a few OL who either have shown nothing or constantly hurt. Move Neal to guard. He can't play tackle. Another year out there is just wasting time.

- I have no faith that anyone in this organization will make the right call on what QB to take and even if they take one like Williams, maye, or daniels - I have full confidence they will screw them up like most other players on this team.

Posters and fans want continuity. Forget that. I want a team with an indenity. Which we don't have. I want to see dominant players. Which we don't have. I want to see speed and fire and passion - which again - we don't have.

I said this after the first few weeks and I'll say it again. It's not about needing a new QB. That's irrelevant at this point. We need a new f'n team with people who know and can develop talent.

- no coaching
- no talent
- no chance

you mean its not all daniels jones fault?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 13, 2023, 04:18:33 PMThe only real issue I have with Caleb is his height. 6'1 makes me nervous

especially with his play style. he is going to get killed if he doesnt change it up, and the fumbles also are a MAJOR concern.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 13, 2023, 03:07:49 PMHere is a clip from an article in The Athletic today about him:


Before the season, NFL Network analyst Daniel Jeremiah compared Maye to Carson Palmer, the No. 1 pick in 2003. ESPN analyst Dan Orlovsky said that Maye has "Big Ben" in his game, referencing former Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, on "The Dan Patrick Show" last month after calling some of Maye's games.

"I think he's a superstar in the NFL," Orlovsky said. "I do."

Tim Hasselbeck, an analyst for ESPN and the ACC Network, said earlier this month that he would select Maye over Williams, calling him as "perfect of a prospect (as) I have ever seen in 15 years at ESPN."

Dane Brugler, the draft analyst for The Athletic, rated Maye as the top player in his updated list of the top 50 prospects. Brugler compared him to Chargers quarterback Justin Herbert.

"Cut from the same cloth," Brugler told the "Hoge & Jahns" podcast in October after evaluating two months of tape from this season. "Good-sized quarterback, great feet, big-time arm. You love the command of the offense. And when you evaluate the quarterback position, you always want to see the full inventory of throws, right? So not every college quarterback can give you that. Drake Maye can."

Seems he's the more classic type of QB, rather than williams who is more a russel wilson type of "magic" play guy. idk. its a tough call. williams is obviously rated the best for a reason. but i feel like he is kind of falling apart lately.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 08:46:14 AMFumbles can be fixed. Exhibit #1: Tiki Barber.

different for a RB who needed to adjust how he carries and protects the ball, and a QB who is known for dancing around trying to make things happen. in order for him to stop fumbling, he will have to stop doing that, which is a huge part of his game.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 07, 2023, 03:24:05 PMYou've seen this team win 4 Super Bowls. Many fans of other teams would sign up for that.

very true. theres times i would trade 1 of those for giving me a reason to annually give up 17 sundays a year though. i know i know, crazy statement. but honestly... its been a devastating 12 years, with no real hope in sight. i just want to be competitive again. year in and year out.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 10, 2023, 04:25:01 PMThat's an apples to oranges comparison though so it doesn't work. Daniel Jones wasn't broken, he just wasn't an elite or even great qb that compounded on a bad team. Because if we take an elite Qb from the past 5 years instead of Jones we are a completely different franchise right now.

Look what Joe Burrow did for the a horrible Bengals team. Elite Qbs cover up a ton of warts and make bad teams good, and great teams elite.

Just because Jones was a huge bust doesn't mean another Qb would have been.

I Will never argue whos better between burrow or jones, but those receivers certainly help...

Quote from: Philosophers on November 10, 2023, 04:34:33 PMWith the upcoming game against __th ranked Penn State tomorrow as well as #1 ranked OSU in 3 weeks, Giants fans will have two outstanding games to watch JJ McCarthy play.  I would not be surprised if the entire Giants scouting, personnel, coaching and management will be at one of those games.  As a Michigan fan and someone who has watched every game he has played in, I want to offer a few tips for you to pay attention to if you catch either or both games.  Please note that I am not yet 100% sold on JJ as the Giants solution.  There are a lot of things I really like about him but there are things I want to see more of between now and end of season and if they make it into the College Football Playoffs.

Mechanics - JJ has gorgeous mechanics.  He throws it using his large muscles in his legs, butt and hips and gets really nice hip rotation.  He holds it differently than John Elway did, but I see a lot of parallels to his mechanics.  That said, he engages his whole body in throws unlike say Warren Moon who just flicked his wrist and a perfectly thrown spiral with amazing touch left his arm.  Since JJ uses his entire body, I worry about his ability to consistently throw the short ball as well as it needs to be thrown.  In that case, it is a lighter grip and more of a flick than an entire body motion.  I want to see these short throws and the results.

Strength of arm versus getting air under long passes - JJ throws ropes.  Plain and simple.  If there is one criticism I had earlier in his career is that on long passes, he does not get enough air under his passes so his WRs can run under them.  Less touch and more howitzer.  He has gotten better this year but I want to see more of it.

Scrambling to pass versus scrambling to run - here is where JJ has really changed up his game.  He used to scramble to run, but now his head and eyes are always up scanning the field to make throws.  I think this is one of his greatest developments.  He scrambles really well to both his left and right.  One stat to remember is that I think this year, JJ has a completion rate of something 92% when throwing outside the pocket. 

Downfield Mentality - JJ is not a dump it off type of QB like DJ is.  He is looking downfield nearly all the time.  He is a big chunk yardage type of QB.  Against Ohio State last year, he was only 12-24 but he threw for something like 263 yards.  This year he is throwing for over 76% pass completions but he is still doing it with a downfield mindset.

Conclusion - When watching either game, I would look for these traits I mentioned rather than just look for overall stats.  He is still a work in progress.  Remember he is only 20 years old.  He still can return to Michigan for another season and right now he said he is 50-50.  I think he comes out, but who knows?  Also, I would not get too high or too low on him based in either or both games.  Just see if you are seeing these traits. 

i have a feeling about this kid. something about a pro style offense is always a plus. with a head coach thats had lots of nfl experience and success. also- we wouldnt have to potentially mortgage the future to move up to get him. lets see how things shake out in april. but we might be able to trade down, get more capital, and still grab him. i think that would be ideal.