Big Blue Huddle

Which coach is responsible for this level of disfunction?
Its Daball's team, plain and simple.  

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 11:02:19 AMIt's a similar story when topics relating to the offensive line come up.  We all pretty much agree that the line has been bad yet it gets taken that if you're being critical of Jones that means you're giving the offensive line a pass.  It's creating a straw man that doesn't exist while at the same time accusing others of doing the same thing.

The line is horrible, beyond horrible and the reality is Jones is not doing anything to buffer against that and at times he is actually making a bad line worse. He isn't identifying empty coverage, overhang players, hot reads, needed coverage adjustments, etc... 18 sacks in the past 2 games and at least 6 of them are directly associated with his inability to do his job presnap.  Add in the lack of accuracy and he simply leaves too many plays on the field as a result of his shortcomings.

If Jones doesn't demand 82 mill over 2 years, he gets more of a pass.  He demanded $'s based on future upside and he isn't delivering on the contract he wanted and got. It amplifies everything, including his critics.

The mess on the line and the impact on the rebuild and the impact on DJ's development is on Schoen, Dg before him and Reese before him. 

Quote from: T200 on October 09, 2023, 10:17:27 PMI don't frequent other message boards but I'm curious if other fan sites have this much bickering over their players.

We're all fans of the same team yet the infighting is off the charts. I cram to understand. 

Omg yes

Just seeing the various Giants social media threads it's as bad if not worse

People are :
Hypersensitive
Desire to be first to declare something
Desire to be correct
Desire to label others as pro or anti
Too invested in their opinion proving correct 

Bad seasons always lead to this 

You wait Tim, If giants draft a QB wait until he sits his first year behind jones and wait for the fighting that occurs then

 

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 03:40:31 PMThe argument wasn't who was better or worse as a player.  It's been clear and still clear Jones is a better player than Brown ever was.  The argument and topic is which QB took more heat and the answer should be Brown for those of us who were around for both.

I know, I was rushing and actually posted in wrong thread, my point that was unclear was brown deserved more heat. 

The team was good and just needed him to step up and not be horrible.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 10:53:11 AMHe did get it worse.  Back then the media never deflected to the team around him it was always about his performance.  So this idea that Jones has had it worse than any player in the history of the franchise is just flat out false.

Brown was in a much better situation and simply could not produce.

First of all, Brown started on bench for 2 seasons behind Hos and then Simms.

Brown had some very good Mike Nolan defenses and also benefited from an much better running game. 

Brown was a deer in headlights and the problem with the offense. 

Back then even the defensive players had turned on Brown and knew he was the problem.


1992 Bench                        Defense #26    Running Game #1       
1993 Bench                        Defense #1      Running game # 10
1994 Starter                       Defense # 8    Running Game #10
1995 Starter                       Defense #16   Running Game #13
1996 Starter                       Defense #10   Running game # 24
1997 Benched for Kennel     Defense # 4   Running game # 7

Right now Giants have the 7 pick, they are a long way from TOP 3. 

Getting a top QB or OT must be a priority. 

All that being said, whomever they pick they need to hit on it

Brown was in a much better situation and simply could not produce.

First of all, Brown started on bench for 2 seasons behind Hos and then Simms.

Brown had some very good Mike Nolan defenses and also benefited from an much better running game. 

Brown was a deer in headlights and the problem with the offense. 

Back then even the defensive players had turned on Brown and knew he was the problem.


1992 Bench                        Defense #26    Running Game #1       
1993 Bench                        Defense #1      Running game # 10
1994 Starter                       Defense # 8    Running Game #10
1995 Starter                       Defense #16   Running Game #13
1996 Starter                       Defense #10   Running game # 24
1997 Benched for Kennel     Defense # 4   Running game # 7

It certainly is not an environment to develop a QB in.  Although I must say it would seem Jones would get better at presnap reads, adjusting coverage and hot reads.  DJ is very smart, studies film and this should become a strength with the amount of practice he is getting at it.  Yet each week the same mistakes.

That skill does not seem to be getting better.  At some point the QB needs to negate and/or make the defense pay and despite the opportunities in each game it doesn't happen enough. 

Simply put the book on the Giants is stop the run and make Jones beat you. Until he can make the reads, adjust the coverages and hit the hot routes; nothing will change.  That exist outside of line play. It is not just Jones, San Fran did the same to Dak last night.

Just my two cents that even with better line play Jones will struggle with Top 10 defenses because he can not do this.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 03, 2023, 01:28:21 PMOrlovsky was just on McAfee's show saying of the 11 sacks he put 4 on the OL and 6 on the QB, either not getting the protection right or scrambling into the sack when he didn't need to. 

(the last one being that lateral play to campbell that is considered a sack for some reason)

Making a bad situation worse?

That should not come with the pricetag it is...

2-14

Fumbling inside the 15 and throwing the pick 6 after he telegraphed his pass is all on him and a fairly common trait.

Jones is damaged goods in the sense that he can't take chances and go for it anymore.  He has been conditioned to play it save to protect the offense from the mistakes of yesteryear. 

Furthermore, once the pressure comes he unravels and starts having his PTSD flashbacks and reverts back to his old habits; missing open receivers by playing it save and checking down, literally missing receivers with poor throws and starring down receivers telegraphing his intentions. 

Everything must be going well, damn near perfect for him to succeed and that is not the trait of a stud franchise QB.

The O line is a huge problem no doubt and I am not understating this.  The Oline is horrible, simply an embarrassment.  That being said Jones is a problem too and has not lived up to 40 mill.  In asking and pushing for that much $ he lost the ability to get more line help with the finite $'s available to the team and put himself into this spot.

He will be off the team after this contracts 2nd year.  Lets hope the next QB has a line to develop behind.

It's a rough ride for sure. 

I like Rich subscribe to the need to vent as well. As I age they are fewer and further between 

Jones has one more year on his contract 
Draft a QB to sit and develop while the o line develops as well

It's time for fall walleye fishing and it's bow season here in Wisconsin 

The Giants have regressed.

Roster isn't perfect but many of the plays not getting made are on the players mental side (focus, effort and attitude).  They are a disgrace 

I completely agree trades are needed to dump salary, collect draft picks  and send a message.

A functional line must be created and a QB without PTSD developed . 

It's the way the off-season, preseason, and first 3 games unfolded

I think the giants simply were not ready for Dallas period

Arizona is better if not much better than people realize

They played 49ers well for 3/4 of the game

So I think the poor line play and Dallas game are bringing the past 12 years of nightmares back to us all


Giants need better line play and better QB play no it's not just the poor line; jones isn't what's wrong but he isn't living up to his contract and taking care of his business either.

Defense needs to start creating leverage, playing in space better and executing fundamentals when tackling.  Thibs and wink need to be sympatico. 

Schoen needs 1 of his 2 1st RD picks to start performing

Special teams needs a foot in their ass

Too little practice, too little live reps, too much $ for unproven players, too much hype, too much media; resulting in too much poor quality uninspired play.

All that being said I'm looking forward to Monday night