Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on April 12, 2024, 01:28:08 PMThat philosophy landed us Daniel Jones.


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Jones was a projected 3rd Round pick. Gettleman screwed that up. It was his incompetence as a GM, not the philosophy that was the issue. 

Like everyone on this board,I'm not a professional scout, coach, or talent evaluator. But if those who are feel the player is worth sacrificing future picks for, then you do it. You can't win or even compete much with mediocre to subpar play from your QB no matter who you have surrounding him. That is the reality in today's NFL.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 11, 2024, 01:50:34 PMIf you are Drake or JJ and you have a chance to play with Justin Jefferson, TJ Hockenson, Jordan Addison, etc vs Wan'Dale and Jalin, I have to think the decision is easy.

As if they have a choice.

Arizona wants an offer they can't refuse. That's the only way they are giving up taking Marvin Harrison.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 11, 2024, 03:36:35 AMYou can be convinced he is your guy and he can still turn out to be a bust. 

Yeah you can. But does that fear stop you from doing what you think is best?

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 11, 2024, 03:42:45 AM2007 and 2011.  Those Superbowls were built on a great defense more than a great QB.  Take away those 2 playoff runs and Eli is an average QB with a .500 winning percentage.  And if scouting QBs is hard enough, scouting a QB that can go on 2 playoff runs that are out of character with the rest of his career is impossible - it is a matter of luck and we got lucky.

I agree about luck. And exceptions now and then. But you can't deny history. The overall history and fact is that it's  it's about the QB. And Eli during that period was a top ten QB.Ypu can't get there with average.

Quote from: jimc on April 10, 2024, 07:57:37 PMHostetler 1991

33 years ago. A different era. And, like I said earlier there were exceptions when another player besides QB were so dominant. The Giants had one of those players on that team. LT. But the reality is, it's a QB-centric league now. More so than ever before.

Quote from: jimc on April 10, 2024, 05:46:27 PMI don't quite get the correlation, but of course the QB is important.  You can win with a good cast of characters and an average QB. We have done it.

When?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 10, 2024, 04:39:05 PMPay the price, we've seen over and over that you can build good teams with out 1st rd picks. The 49ers weren't phased by the multiple 1sts they paid for trey Lance much less all they used to get Mccarthy.

That and the Rams won a super bowl with no 1st rd picks for a decade.


You either have a qb or you don't, you have to get the guy if you think he is a guy.

If you are convinced he is your guy, yeah. I agree because the position is worth giving away picks...if it works out. I would easily sacrifice the chance to draft an offensive tackle or receiver in the for round next year if I knew I found my QB for the next decade. That being said, I'm not convinced McCarthy is worth that much because he is who you will get at 4.

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 10, 2024, 01:50:03 PMkat: The Vikings may have a better offer... they currently have two first round picks this year, and they could add to that their first-rounder next year, which IMO is a better offer. Bob

They could be sucker enough to do that. They made the infamous Herschel Walker trade, so let them do it. They would be better off, in my opinion, in staying put at 11, drafting Penix, who is much more NFL ready than McCarthy, and keeping their other position to fortify their defense.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 10, 2024, 01:48:23 PMI look at it the other way.  If that is the price for #4, what could the Giants get for #6?  Maybe 2 firsts and a second?  I sure wouldn't mind a 2025 first so they can go QB hunting next year.

If they don't draft a QB, this is what I would do even though there will maybe be a new coach in 2025 because without a solid QB next year the team will struggle.

Quote from: jimc on April 10, 2024, 04:18:10 PMThere are no shortcuts to building a SB caliber team.  It take a bunch of parts working together and only one of them is the QB.  That's why in this draft we need to focus on building the team.  We need as many draft picks as we can get AND we need our front office to have an A+ draft.  I'm not so sure any one of the QB's in this draft will become "elite".

There are no shortcuts and you need to build a team. But like it or not, without the QB, the hardest element to find, you have not much of a chance. You can't plug in mediocrity at that position no matter how good the supporting cast is. Getting your QB is worth at least four position players. He is that important to the success of your team.

No one will give them that. They will have to come way off that if they want to move that pick. I don't blame them for trying. They want Harrison Jr. and know no one will do that deal.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 10, 2024, 09:26:40 AMWhat exactly does that mean?  Are you saying my list is inaccurate, or doesn't it show that the overwhelming number of QBs leading their team to the QB was good but not elite?

You say Goff was good to near elite but the Rams treated him as a throw-in in the trade to get Stafford, so your assessment doesn't match the Ram's assessment.

Sorry, Purdy is not on his way to elite.  Purdy is the poster boy for QBs propped up by superior talent.  Purdy is a top 10-20 QB who enjoys great protection, outstanding targets, and elite coaching 

No, I'm not saying the list is inaccurate. I explained what I felt about the list. We will disagree about Purdy. No way you can determine now, after two years in the NFL, that Purdy is not on the way to elite. Doesn't mean he will be elite, but he certainly could become elite as he progresses. And Goff, the throw-in, took the Rams to a Super Bowl and the Lions to a championship game. He is "near elite," in my opinion and if only the Giants had anyone close to that level of QB play. Most of those QBs, on your list, as I said in my last post, are top ten level, maybe not elite. NFL teams who have QBs, below even the top 15-level, and there are over 15 of them, want to find someone who can reach the top ten. Let's put it this way in terms of the Monopoly games. The QB position is worth "Boardwalk" or "Park Place" in value while other positions are worth significantly less.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 10, 2024, 11:30:29 AMThe one thing that I find interesting is some of the comments about the Eli Manning trade.  I often hear it called a successful trade due to the two Super Bowl victories. While I don't dispute that two SB trophies are a good outcome, what we don't know is how things would have gone with Rivers or Big Ben, plus the draft capital given up to get Eli.

I was happy with the results, but at the time not happy with the trade only because I believed the Giants had the leverage. Eli didn't want to play for anyone but the Giants. San Diego knew that he was going to be difficult to sign. The Giants could have played hardball and not offered the following years first, but maybe a second. What options did San Diego have?