Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 30, 2023, 05:16:33 PMFully agreed.

They're already playing well, and, as we know, this is a position with a learning curve. They will (very likely) only get materially better in the next year or two.

Not sure at all about Hawkins.  He's had periods where he seemed allergic to tackling.  I'm almost ready to give up on Robinson who I thought had serious potential

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 30, 2023, 06:54:27 PMFunny how this line of defense is derided as making excuses when applied to Daniel Jones.

Maybe the difference between making $40 million plus and about $12 million. 

I can't stand the NCAA.  Theres an old joke about them.  They were so angry at Univ of Kentucky that they suspended Louisville.  It would surprise me if they really went after Michigan

Thank you MG.  Has there been any word on the CB who has been injured since last year?   The guy who was a 3rd round pick

LT revolutionized his position on the outside.  There were great pass rushers before him, for example, Deacon Jones.  But, he played in a 4-3 which was the predominant structure before LT.  I wouldn't say Butkus was a Ray Lewis type.  Butkus was the premier middle LB of his day and he hit like a freight train.  Lewis was far better in pass coverage and I would say was more Butkus light against the run.   During Butkus' time, I can't think of many, or any, big TEs that were great receivers.  It almost seems like a different position.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 05, 2023, 01:15:18 PMSeems you missed the "in retrospect" portion of what I wrote.  Obviously this is hindsight...that's exactly the point.  In the moment, sure they can easily be sucked into believing they're the best GM/Coach combo in the history of football and sure they can turn this ship around in one season.  But as it turns out the original plan of 2024 was probably a little more prudent given the results that we've seen.

It would have been a tough pill to swallow after a playoff win to let Jones and Barkley walk.  There are a large number of fans who'd have lost their collective minds over doing something like that.  What I'm saying is, they should have done it anyway.  Because it would have been the best move for the future of the team even if it wasn't the best move for the 2023 Giants chances of success.  Although after what we've seen maybe it would have been that too.

You say the move was to draft Herbert...which is a bit of monday morning QB in it of itself, no?  But also something I agree with and stated at the time.  Although I was advocating they not draft Jones at all and just simply wait a year when Herbert/Tua would both be coming out and that was before Joe Burrow burst on the scene.  Jones' year was an awful year for QB.  So naturally the smartest guy in the room, David football Gettleman, decided that was the time to take one. 

Having said that, once you draft Jones you can't trade him the very next season unless he starts showing up to work without pants on or something.  Certainly not based on play or the fact that significantly better QBs are available the following season.  You'd look like the dope we all know Gettleman to be for not waiting and well know he'd never stand for that.

I know you weren't suggesting that they burn it down.  I think Schoen couldnt do it even if he believed it was the right thing to do.  The team was a victim of its success last year and success limited his moves this year.

I also keep coming back to drafting Jones at 6 convinced that somebody suckered Gettleman into drafting Jones too early.  That said, I believe that there are competent GMs who would have acknowledged the mistake with Jones prevented them from getting Herbert.  It would have required lots of courage but for me it was the move even if Jones steps up his game.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 05, 2023, 12:20:27 PMWhich I imagine they decided because it was the only way to keep Barkley too.  Which they only wanted to do because they felt that they could build off of last season and possibly contend this year, one year ahead of schedule.  But clearly that was a miscalculation.  In retrospect probably best to have just let them both walk, suffered through a miserable season (we're doing that anyway) and put yourself in position to draft caleb williams while using the Jones money to fortify the rest of the roster that's clearly not good enough.

Your comments following the words in retrospect are the very definition of Monday morning QB.  How do you think fans here and elsewhere would have reacted if the Giants basically started from scratch after winning a playoff game.  Putting us in a position to draft Caleb Williams means something like winning 1-2 games, maybe none the way the Bears are playing.  With PSLs and very expensive ticket prices and parking, etc plus a meddling owner, coming off the first successful season in a long time, how do you tear it down.  Winning made Schoen's job, oddly enough, much harder.

The move to make, in my opinion, should have been made by Gettleman by drafting Herbert and trading Jones coming off a decent rookie year when he may have had value.  To me, a QB like Herbert would have set the franchise up for years.

I am not a Daniel Jones fan; I thought his being drafted 6th was one of the worst picks in Giants history. That said, he had a good year last year and the team won a playoff game after years of less than mediocrity.  What do you think the reaction of fans would have been if he did not re-sign him ( and the owner).  There were no really good QBs in the draft and no good free agent QBs not even considering the CAP situation here.  He could have franchised Jones but that probably would have resulted in losing Barkley.  And and signing Jones freed up money to spend this year.  Coming off a successful year made dealing with Jones much harder.  Signing Jones may have been the best of a few bad options.

My opinion is that the real screwup after Jones with the 6th pick was passing on Herbert the following year when he available at our pick.  A GM as bad as Gettleman would not have done that because among other things, it would have been admitting the Jones pick was a mistake and Getty sucked as a GM.   I wonder if Schoen was here then or a GM with foresight and cojones would have pulled the trigger on Herbert and traded Jones for whatever we could get.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 04, 2023, 12:20:11 PMArt Stapleton
@art_stapleton
#NYGiants TE Daniel Bellinger (knee) will be limited in practice today, per Brian Daboll.

That's a promising sign considering the way Bellinger left the field Monday night. Looked worst case scenario on replays.

His absence forced Giants to use Darren Waller more in-line to help in blocking schemes in Bellinger's spot, which altered some of the game plan.

I don't get how a team with such a weak OL can afford 2 TEs who really don't block?    Using Waller inside is such a waste of his talents.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 02, 2023, 03:07:11 PMI feel like Kafka is operating within only a small subset of options in playcalling.  It seems like within this subset these are his only options to pick.  I don't understand that.  For example, if the OL cannot consistently protect DJ, why doesn't he roll out DJ to buy him more time?  That is just one example, but I really believe his playbook subset is not wide enough to encapsulate other options he can utilize.  Sorry that has been my beef for this 2023 season.

I was also wondering why we haven't seen any rollouts.  I haven't seen this anywhere but it occurs to me that if Jones is rolling to his right, he's moving in the direction of the pass rusher that Neal is trying to block and maybe they think getting Jones closer to a pass rusher who is probably going to beat Neal is not a good idea.  Now, I can see a rollout with Bollinger chipping the pass rusher which would buy more time.  I guess we'll see later what they come up with. 

Good question.  In one respect, going to the playoffs and winning a game, made Schoen's job harder.  Some of the moves that were made were short term moves that might not have been long term helpful.  We gave up 3 ir 4 draft choices to target certain players and its not clear to me helped build a stronger team although on paper, all looked like good moves.  The question is, for example, could one of those picks help solidify the OL.

I don't think the question here is McNabb vs Eli.  It's the comment that Jones is the same type as McNabb.  I'm not sure what the word type is but if Jones has the career that McNabb had,  I'll be ok with that.  But, he has a long way to go to get there

Looks like this was a need draft especially at the top although after Gettleman, there were lots of needs.  I'm of the camp to not panic and that's it's still early.

He's here until Beasley is healthy

I could use some help on this.  I have Lawrence who has been disappointing and could switch to Tua.  Should I switch?  I have Ridley (disappointing) and Zay Flowers.  He replaced Waddle who is on the bench with McLaurin and Jeudy.  Which 2 should start?  Last, Mark Andrews or Hockinson at TE?