Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 03:30:05 PMWhat does this even mean?Game, set, match:An expression indicating finality, announcing that a series of events—usually involving some form of rivalry—has reached a conclusion.
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Show posts MenuQuote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 03:30:05 PMWhat does this even mean?Game, set, match:An expression indicating finality, announcing that a series of events—usually involving some form of rivalry—has reached a conclusion.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 01:15:47 PMMaybe that's because Mahomes' receivers get open? They lost one of the top 3 receivers in the league and still have a receiving corps that is light-years better than the Giants'.I wasn't arguing one way or another just giving examples on time to throw and how people use it.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 01:02:23 PMFunny thing, I feel like I am one of the defenders of DJ, and I've probably made the strongest case for letting him (and Barkley) move on while they focus their CAP space on extending their stars like Dexter and Thomas, and picking up mid-pay-range FAs at lower value position like ILB and IOL, and maybe one big FA signing if there's someone they really like at one of our myriad positions of need.I will give you that all day. Where most people try to act neutral you are neutral from what I've seen in discussions. Even though you and I have different perspectives on Jones, we both feel the same about the future of the team. Ie Should have traded Barkley, let Jones walk, acquire solid pieces at cheaper positions in FA and draft for premium.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 12:51:00 PMSo it's not particularly relevant, since it includes the time he's running for his life.In my opinion and from what I've read from professionals that use next Gen stats for clearer picture of what's going on with an offense "Time to Throw" doesn't give a ton of information on its own. Only when it's coupled with other next Gen stats like actual Air Yards, and intended air yards can you get a better picture.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 09:15:05 AMYeah, I know, but that didn't stop some folks from throwing around the 5 seconds number. And please clarify, if you will, is that 2.9 figure time to throw or time in the pocket?Time to throw is the time from the snap until the ball leaves the Qbs hands.
Quote from: GMenRF on December 26, 2022, 09:02:36 PMYes Cousins may be the better QB now, but going forward I like where DJ can continue to progress and develop. He's been playing efficient offense and not necessarily QB stat friendly offense but that's what he's been asked to do.That's the problem though, no QB has ever started 4 years, had the same basic stats 4 years straight and then progressed after that 4th year into something more than he was already. It's never happened to my knowledge and if I remember correctly from talking with @kingm56 about the subject. So then you would be hoping Jones was a statical anamoly and took a leap in year 5 that didn't transpire at any time in the first four seasons. One or two games a season isn't flashing, that's probably luck. No coincidence his best two games this season are against 2 of the worst passing defenses in Jacksonville and Minnesota.
Now that we started opening up the pass offense, DJ can only continue to get better. Put better skill position WRs around him and how it with dynamically change our pass game.
Not to mention DJ has the running ability unlike Cousins. Those deeper routes vs man to man with the DBs backed turned and DJ can pick up yards with his legs.
We've seen Cousins ceiling right now with the best WR in the league. I'd go out on a limb that going forward DJ has a higher ceiling than Cousins if he continues in his development.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 26, 2022, 07:04:01 PMI did look at time to throw when folks were throwing 5 seconds around. And saw that his time in the pocket was more like 2.5 seconds and the 5 seconds was due to how often he was running for his life.I've been keeping up with the next Gen stats all season and he's been right at 2.9 or right over 3.0 all season which for the most part was 30th or worse in the NFL. Recently he's done better and because of such he sits around 2.92 which probably 20th maybe 23rd. What it hasn't been is 5 seconds ever this season to my knowledge if that helps in your discussion.
Obviously I don't 'know for sure' what he is being coached to do, - none of us do - but I think if Daboll was coaching him to avoid turnovers he would emphasize throwing the ball away, rather than taking sacks. But that's just a surmise.
IAC that is all speculation, while the 40% increase in sacks is a hard number. And I'm an empirical guy.
I think Thomas is an excellent tackle but besides him I don't see anyone on our OL who is above average or, in most cases, even average when to comes to pass pro. Neal has so far been a disappointment in that regard, particularly since his pass pro was supposed to be his strength, but he's just a rookie and can (hopefully) improve. But the interior line is still a mess.
I'm copying this whole post and pasting it as a reply in the DJ thread to honor the mods wishes, plus it is a little off the topic of the thread
Quote from: sxdxca38 on December 26, 2022, 01:48:32 PMIf I may interject a few thoughts.Daboll and Kafka like Jones on a schedule. When we win he typically throws it for 27-30 times for a 180 yards and 0-1 Tds. It's when he's asked to throw more than that is when we lose typically. Because him throwing less means the ground game is working and if the ground game isn't working we typically lose.
Daboll and Kafka had DJ throw the ball 42 times against the Vikings, and 30 times against the Jaguars.
Why?
Because the Vikings have the 32nd ranked passing defense, and the Jaguars the 28th.
Daboll and Kafka are going to attack a teams weakness, this means they may run it 50 times a game, or throw it 40 times, depending on the opponent.
Daboll has mentioned this multiple times, during his media sessions.
One of the criteria that JS has said for the QB position is can he come through in the "Gotta have it moments".
The Giants were down by 8, with about 4 minutes left in the game. DJ drove them down the field and scored a TD, and also came through with a 2 point conversion.
I personally was looking to see if he could come through in a "Gotta have it moment" when the pressure was on and he did.
Two more games to go, let's see what happens
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 25, 2022, 03:11:33 PMThe ranking of the 2019 offense is right about the same as this one.I agree they're similar, even though I believe 2019 had better weapons, I think this staff is better.
2019: pts per game 18 - yards per game 23
2022: pts per game 20 - yards per game 20
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 25, 2022, 02:43:58 PMYeah, these terms are horribly imprecise. To me a franchise QB is a guy whose team doesn't think of replacing him. Eli was rarely in the top ten of QBs but the Giants never thought seriously of replacing him until the end. And, IMO he was elite for 2 playoff runs and the 2011 season. But he was clearly a franchise QB, IMO.Where would you rate the offense in 2019? The Barkley, Tete, Shep, Slayton, EE Offense with a line that was ranked like 19th. Do you think the production his rookie year is his ceiling, minus the fumbles, or could be his average yearly production with a stabilized offense?
The conundrum with DJ is that he is ranked 17 playing on an offense that is far below 17th. And some blame him for not elevating the other players. An elite QB can elevate a good offense to very good, and an average offense to a good offense, but I don't think the QB has been born who can elevate a bad offense to a very good offense. I think DJ has elevated a bad offense to a slightly below offense. And the question is, what could he elevate an average or good offense to. And how would playing on such offenses change his ranking, because rankings are dynamic, not static. He wouldn't be Mahomes in the KC offense, but I doubt he'd rank 17th.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2022, 10:34:31 AMWe know Hurts is a much better athlete and runner than Minshew, so to say Minshew is equal is to say he's a significantly better passer.Look at all the Free Agent Qbs this offseason and the stats they've put up this season. Someone's going to pay White, Brissett, Dalton, Minshew, Geno, Heinecke, and especially Darnold after the last 4 games he's had. All those Qbs have played good football this year.
I like Minshew a lot and think he's better than some starters in this league, and I admit that up until this season I wasn't very high on Hurts, but I don't think I'm comfortable saying Minshew is a distinctly better passer than Hurts. Minshew is very efficient and accurate, but his arm is pretty weak.
Overall I would say that the gap probably isn't as big as many think, but I personally would not agree that there is zero drop-off. And I say that coming from a place where I have always liked Minshew and think he's a solid QB.