Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Bob In PA on June 16, 2024, 11:48:13 AMDepends what the emphasis is. 

Who lasted the longest in the NFL? 
Which man's best year was the overall best of all of them?
Best man-coverage guy?
Best zone coverage guy?
Best at getting interceptions?
Best at not giving up TD?
Best at not giving up first downs?

A really tough question to answer, so I'll pick Champ Bailey, because he may have been the "composite" best player when combining all of the factors enumerated above.

Bob

Bob,

I think some of those factors are up to the person picking

Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 15, 2024, 04:15:57 PMLooking back, Wink's defenses in Baltimore were never outstanding in sacks, INTS, run stopping, red zone.  Where they were exceptional was opponent passer rating and the all important points yielded.  It's a curious combination, but the special sauce might be that Baltimore was always at or near the top in TOP, and that wasn't because of 3&outs or takeaways it was because Baltimore had a ball control offense that led the league in rushing attempts every year Wink was there.  And in his final year even the things his defense had been good at, including scoring defense, fell off the cliff.

What may be a sign of hope for us though, is the fact that after he left Baltimore's defense improved in a lot of categories.  May it be so for the Giants.

I think we tend to get over-enthusiastic about new coaches, particularly if they have a hook.  Wink, Coach Chaos, (both of whom are out of the NFL after their stints with the Giants) etc.  And a whole line of OL coaches who were regarded as saviors.

Mike Lombardi always like to say the less a defense has to player the easier it it for them

Quote from: Philosophers on June 16, 2024, 12:34:42 PMWho said successful?  I said top 16-18

I think that it's reasonable to say that is roughly how DJ did in 2022 (maybe a little higher or lower) but at least in that range

@Bob In PA and @DaveBrown74


We can always take Tom's word for it

When asked by Jimmy Kimmel

"I think the thing I've always felt for me in my life, winning has been a priority," he said, via NFL.com's Jeremy Bergman. "And my wife [model Gisele Bundchen] makes a lot of money."

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2834412-tom-brady-i-take-pay-cuts-with-patriots-because-my-wife-makes-a-lot-of-money.amp.html


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https://www.nfl.com/news/tom-brady-on-salary-my-wife-makes-a-lot-of-money-0ap3000001029852

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on June 16, 2024, 11:54:28 AMI think Neal is the obvious choice. To me, the opportunity to go from a huge liability at RT to Pro Bowl level performance would be more impactful than anyone else on the list. Plus he's locked up at a reasonable price for another 2 years after this one. Would be huge for the franchise.

I disagree that Neal guarantees success for DJ though. That's next level wishful thinking. I think a lot of people including John Mara think in those terms which is why this franchise has been competing with the Jets for worst in the league over a decade.

I don't think you can guarantee Jones would not thrive if he finally received adequate protection any more than one can guarantee success.   Conventional wisdom suggests that the better a QB is protected, the better they play.  So it really comes down to how much better DJ would play.

Quote from: BluesCruz on June 16, 2024, 10:39:40 AMDJ has a very long neck as did Peyton Manning

Both suffered serious neck trauma

I would suggest neck strengthening weight lifting

As much as I am not a fan of the Giants medical staff, I would be shocked if they haven't worked to strengthen his neck

Quote from: Philosophers on June 16, 2024, 11:43:32 AMI've read it 3x and not sure if you are asking who we want or who we think will have a breakout.  I chose the former which for me means Evan Neal.  He drives the season for us.  His plays guarantees DJ will be at least top 16-18 QBs.  If he is bad DJ is in bottom quartile.

I read it as want.   I agree, a breakout season by Neal would go a long way towards a good season.

I will say this: there is the potential that this WR group could prove to be special.  The Giants drafted an elite prospect to combine with two young day-two prospects who have high ceilings.   The WR corps could go from one of he worst in the league to top 10

Quote from: Painter on June 16, 2024, 10:59:24 AMIt might have something to do with coaching, but it's just as likely related to having better talent on either side, and/or at more comfortable position. In any case, does it really matter going forward unless, of course, we are habitual fault-finders.

Cheers!

I would suggest it only really matters in terms of expectations.  If coaching was the primary issue, the hiring of new coaches could result in significant improvements in this year's O-line.  If the coaching wasn't as bad as the firings suggest, then it's possible we will not see all that much improvement from adding 1 or 2 serviceable vets and a few more JAG level vets

Quote from: kingm56 on June 15, 2024, 09:01:40 PMJoe, your comments suggest sacks are solely caused by poor blocking, and the QB is merely a victim?  I typically agree with you; so, I would appreciate your thoughts. 

PFF has a metric where they assign a percentage of sacks for which the quarterback at least shares some of the blame.  If I filter 2023 for 20% to eliminate QBs with very few snaps like Rodgers and Richarson, DJ was 6th highest with 20%.  What I found interesting is that QBs with greater percentages included Russel Wilson, Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, and Josh Allen.  Not sure what to make of that.

As for 2022 DJ was 13th with 16.7%


Note: Offensive players may share responsibility for an allowed pressure (e.g. Defender splits a double-team).

Quote from: Giant Obsession on June 16, 2024, 10:15:09 AMOn the bright side, apparently our GM can assess free agent Oline  talent with some degree of success.  Too bad it ultimately does not lead to OUR success.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on June 16, 2024, 10:15:09 AMBlaming the Oline coaching is convenient no doubt.

BUT

To me it really rests at the top with another rookie HC.  You can not tell me that with all his worldly football knowledge he can not see when some things are amiss on his roster, like possibly incorrect usage of personnel. Especially in an area that has been our #1 problem and brings the rest of the offense to a grinding halt way too much.

Until we get this Oline thing right we ain't going nowhere.....again.   And how do you properly assess our QB talent while this thorn stays stuck in our body ?? 

On the bright side, apparently our GM can assess free agent Oline  talent with some degree of success.  Too bad it ultimately does not lead to OUR success.

Mike,

This is why I hope it was all in the coaching.  The offensive line has been terrible for over a decade.  The line (especially in the early part of the season) was beyond terrible last year despite quite the Giants investing heavy amounts of draft capital into the position.  Maybe the coaching turns things around, but until proven otherwise, there will be a concern that the Giants wasted all that draft capital in 2022 and 2023 by drafting the wrong players.

https://x.com/BigBlueVCR/status/1802144058242224260

https://x.com/BigBlueVCR/status/1802083659572232220