Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 19, 2024, 05:00:25 PMWell thankfully they are not taking your suggestions because those takes are horrible. He had a 90 pff grade, with no elite weapons but sure competent lol.

They clearly are taking those suggestinos assuming they don't draft JJ. And of course, I'm sure Drake Maye with his elite weapons at UNC had it far easier than... 5 star #1 in the country Michigan and their skill group.

This is absurd. You're acting as if JJ didnt have literally the perfect scenario around him to succeed and still produced mediocre to average numbers.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 19, 2024, 05:05:33 PMBut why pay 10 million for the 16th best rb when you can get that same production for $500,000 from a late round pick. Just isn't logical saquan hit the wall midyear 2022 and has been bad since.

"same production"? And you know this based off what?

If we take some late round 500K guy as our "starting RB" with DANIEL JONES we will have the worst offesnive in the 21st century of football.

what isn't logical is blaming saquon for "poor production" when practically every team schemed against him not Jones which is rare for most QBS other than CMC

Quote from: Painter on February 19, 2024, 03:45:18 PMWhether you view the thread as explanation or merely an excuse, as apparently you do, it does reflect an obvious and egregious lack of support for a Giants QB having to perform behind a grossly inadequate Oline for the almost all of the past dozen years. That is not to suggest that Daniel Jones has the skill and inherent ability to be a "winning" Quarterback because as frustrating as it may be his future capability is now upon us to be settled, finally

That is a fact which perhaps was made opaque last year by what may have been poor pre- and early season preparation by Brian Daboll & Co., and then certainly by Jones's injury. But it is now made crystal clear through the exigency of current and future costs.

As a Giants fan, I can only guess what is meant by reference to "winning culture" but where this team is concerned, I can't think of anyone who works harder in the interest of positive team culture than does Daniel Jones.

I'm sure it won't surprise anyone that I gave the originating thread a "like" in endorsing the proposal that the Giants give first and foremost priority to X- Receiver and the Oline in the Draft, if not also in FA.

Cheers!

No team has spent more on Oline than the Giants in the drafts in the past 5 or so years.

You can give all the excuses you want, when you are the 6th highest paid player in the NFL salary cap wise (ahead of Josh Allen) you need to elevate those around you, not have a perfect situation where you can play "normal" or ok.

I don't blame Jones for taking the outrageous deal he was offered, it lies on Scohen who should have at worst matched whatever offer someone gave him in FA. This deal alone should and may get him fired for incompetence.

Tiki lowkey just wants the Giants to be awful forever... he's still mad about 07

Quote from: Philosophers on February 19, 2024, 08:01:17 AMWhy don't you consider taking a break for a bit and reading how we discuss topics here instead of coming in here swinging?  Many on this board including myself have been on this board for 15+ years and have a real respect for each other even when we disagree.

By the say, I have never said the Giants should draft McCarthy.  I said I think he's the most NFL ready.  Until the OL problem is solved, nobody in my opinion will be successful playing QB for the Giants.  We need better OL play and a stud WR1 unless Hyatt's route running become elite next year.

Oh so now I'm the one who come out swinging?

Last I checked, you threw out personal attacks my way when your name wasn't even mentioned trying to fight someone else's battle. Don't talk about respect when you came at me first for no reason when you couldn't debate things in a respectful manner. Gaslighting.

And again, we already saw Tyrod have significantly stronger play with the same OLine than either Tommy or Jones did. The OLine while a problem is not the main concern, it is getting the right franchise QB.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 19, 2024, 08:05:45 AMI genuinely think you didn't read what I said. I said JJ was head and shoulders above the rest being NFL ready now.

Josh Allen had significantly worst stats than Mccarthy coming out so that's a bad example as is saying Mccarthy can't process, when he's got the best processing out of the draft able qbs.

I get you tried but JJ is nothing like Jones, it's a lazy comp when all the scouts are comping him with Joe Burrow.

Next time digest the info, do the research, and come back with something better.

Welcome to the board.

And that's just not accurate when he's had a SYSTEM that babied him the entire time in college. Of course when someone has a coach like Harbaugh they will appear more "ready" than the guy who played for friggin UNC.

The Josh Allen referenece is that his CEILING is much higher than a guy like JJ's.

When you play with an AWARD WINNING offensive line for 2 years you better look incredible offesnively, and JJ merely looks competent. A =good majority of his passes were just dump off short routes or screen passes.

I have my opinion from what I've seen, I cannot think of a stupider pick than taking frigginn JJ McCarthy at 6. Right back at ya.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 19, 2024, 09:30:13 AMYou're on the record as not liking McCarthy, so which franchise QB do you expect to be available and the Giants to take at #6?

And if they trade up into the top 3, they will be trading a ransom of draft capital that is desperately needed to plug all the other holes in the starting lineup.

So no, there are no circumstances under which Saquon is desperately needed, because there are no circumstances under which this team is a RB away from being competitive.

And if you think Saquon is taking a discount to stay, you'd be mistaken. He's looking to get paid by someone, and I pray Schoen is smart enough to know when to move on.

If Pats want Marvin, we trade up to 4 and take who remains between Daniels and Drake.

If we can get a franchise QB, that saves us for 8+ years when next year's  QB class is WEAK. We do whatever it takes to trade up If opportunity presents itself INCLUDING keeping Saquon who can help our QB's development. No discount needed, Saquon wants to stay in NY

Your point is finding a multitude of excuses for why Jones didn't play like a competent decent QB? Tyrod outplayed him (barely) at a much less contract.

Jones is the 6th highest paid cap space player next season and has done absolutely nothing to even come close to his bonuses. What is your point?

The sooner we get rid of him, the sooner we get to a team with winning culture.

Quote from: Philosophers on February 18, 2024, 10:29:41 PMWho exactly are you to. One on this board
You have the audacity to challenge an esteemed member of this board who also happens to be a knowledgeable college football fanatic and someone who writes thoughtful posts here?

You registered on this board yesterday and posted what 16 times?  You offer nothing except what the pundits say which is nothing but lazy follow the herd mentality.  As they say in a surf lineup.  Work your way in rather than try to take the first wave.

I realize now you are the biggest JJ McCarthy fan so I see why you feel personally attacked.

If that poster has an issue with my post they can discuss it, they don't need someone fighting battles for them.

I have seen JJ play and do not believe he would be successful with the Giants and the New York media. If we are all Giants fans, we should want what is best for the team not holding blind loyalty to someone for ego purposes.

Shall we get back to the discussion and not insults directed at posters for their opinions?

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 18, 2024, 07:12:49 PM2 or 3 wrongs don't make a right.

if we draft a franchise QB, Saquon is essential to keep

1. Tommy DeVito (37% of pressures turned into sacks)
2. Daniel Jones (32%)
3. Ryan Tannehill (30%)
4. Bryce Young (25%)
5. Zach Wilson (24%)

https://twitter.com/ihartitz/status/1757465944824193328?s=46&t=0xAazF9o6JhfoCzCLm_ofA

meanwhile Tyrod was middle of the pack with the same oline.


While our o-line is bad, the bottom line is our QB play is even worse and most of it is because of their talent and lack thereof involving pressures...

I call for keeping Saquon on a 3 year to help our rookie QB develop and starting from scratch.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 18, 2024, 06:32:37 PMYou wouldn't have to wait as JJ is head shoulders above the rest in terms of plug n play while Maye, Daniels, and Williams will all likely need time to adjust and grow.

Does Mccarthy need reps, and time to grow, absolutely, but he's easily the most pro ready coming out of a pro style offense in college playing some of the best defenses in the country.

We wouldn't be waiting on Mccarthy, the kid has won at every level. The team would grow with him not be waiting on him as heads so far above the rest currently from a mental grasp of the game.

you REALLY just said JJ is head and shoulders above Caleb Williams?!

JJ has been handled his entire college career with baby gloves, just like Daniel Jones.

Now he is going to the NFL where he a below average athlete (worse than Jones in that regard), with a very very mediocre arm. He did play against tough competition, but he also had the best college football coach in the nation designing a system to limit his faults and mistakes.

We also don't need someone who is "most ready" to win now, we need the QB with the highest ceiling who can be a franchise QB for 10+ years.. does this team look ready to contend? lol

We do not need another guy who struggles with processing and can throw off his first read but not much else.


The point of a Brian Daboll is to get a guy with MASSIVE potential he can develop into a stud like Josh Allen, not a Jones/MCcarthy type where Daboll has to scheme and limit his genius to fit a player with limitations.

And just like Jones, this is a guy projected to be a late 1st-2nd round pick all of a sudden getting whispers he might sneak into the early first. NO thank you. I'd rather draft an Oline than get stuck with this guy for 4 years


I would 1000% prefer a guy like Caleb or Drake who's "weakness" is trying to keep plays going too long and make some miraculous throw, because you can develop around it.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 18, 2024, 03:43:13 PMThe longshot part is that the teams drafting ahead of the Giants need quarterbacks.  So it's unlikely they pass on an elite prospect themselves.

The Giants are near the bottom of the league in talent.  One thing we have witnessed over and over again is teams lacking talent drafting a QB and the QB failing to develop (sort of hard to learn to play in the NFL, running for your life).   The draft capital that it would take to move up in the draft would mean the worst line in the league will pretty much stay one of the worst.  The receiver corp will not be upgraded; the RB room will decline with the departure of Barkley, and the DBs will diminish with the loss of McKinney and Jackson.

Our only shot is Pats taking Marvin but I agree

We saw Tyrod basically look average with the same line as Tommy and DJ... I have faith in Daboll to develop a QB and if we have Saquon that can help the rookie. I truly think some fans are underestimating just how awful DJ was and how much Daboll had to scheme around him in order for things to work 2 years ago.

If we have the opportunity to take a franchise QB, you do it. Bottom line. Just because ewe may have a higher pick next year doesn't mean the QB class will be as strong as this one. If let's say Maye is somehow still there at #4, we must go for him.

I also do not think JJ is even in the same stratosphere as the other 3 so taking him in the 6-12 range and then ONCE AGAIN being forced to "Wait on him" for 4 year is the biggest disaster imo.

Pugh was cringe defending Jones all season.

if we really can't find any better options I suppose, but Pugh is the height of mediocrity.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 18, 2024, 09:14:57 AMThen it will be a good thing, because bottom tier teams should never pay for-injured RBs or drama queen S big money.

the main focus should be on not spending on massive QB bust's for 20% of our cap space, but already did that smh