Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 26, 2023, 02:13:28 PMHard to draw conclusions given only 2 starters are left from Wink's D.

This is fair but it also shows it doesn't take half a decade to rebuild a unit. This is why it's so frustrating to me that we keep talking about how many years it will take to rebuild this or that unit when other teams can rebuild and are competitive within a year or two.

Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 10:04:20 AMOK ..but we still need to build pieces .... If we miss out on QB .... do we just ignore the rest of the offense simply because Jones is the QB ? I dont understand this logic....  If we could get Tyrek Hill for a draft pick do we simply say no because Jones is the QB ?

Im talking about building the team... if we dont get a QB Jones is the QB for just one more season.... you dont ignore needs because of one player

If they don't get a QB, I don't see how they're in range for Harrison. But assuming they somehow couldn't get a QB but do end up with Harrison, I think he becomes our version of Garrett Wilson, a tremendous talent who is being held back by virtue of his QBs.

I wrote about my thoughts on the rebuild and collecting pieces in another thread. Rather than rehash my thoughts I'll just copy here what I wrote there because I think continuing the Daniel Jones experiment will only keep the team running in place on the hamster wheel.

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This team seems to be 3 years away every year and it's been that way for over a decade. Things won't change until they find a legitimate QB.

It's ironic that Geno Smith may have been that guy 6 years ago if they had given him a shot. But Gettleman believed Eli just needed another weapon and he bizarrely believed Kyle Lauletta could be the heir apparent. Not that Geno was a great prize, but maybe he would've helped this team get back to respectability.

Now, unless they luck into an elite QB through the draft, they'll continue their decade long game of whack-a-mole with the roster. Use 2 top-10 picks and a 2nd round pick on the OL, and the OL is worse than ever. Invest a top-10 pick on a pass rusher and sign Dex to a huge contract, but the defensive front is only average on a good day. Invest a first round pick on a dynamic WR, then trade him for an aging but formerly elite TE, and still no legitimate #1 target. Grant McAdoo the keys to the kingdom, 2 years later it's Shurmur, 2 years later it's Judge, 2 years later it's Daboll, 2 years later???

This is like being on a hamster wheel. Until they solve the QB position they will continue running in place without getting anywhere.

Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 09:58:39 AMYou literally stated that he would be a non-factor.... I just disagree and added a question

This doesnt mean I dont think we should move on from Jones .... I just dont think Harrison becomes a Non-Factor

Yes, I think Jones is bad enough that drafting Harrison wouldn't be worth it if Jones is the QB. No, I don't think Harrison would produce to his potential with Jones under center.

Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 09:55:24 AMAre you saying Harrison cant get open ?

Baffling that you made that leap smh.

Quote from: T200 on December 26, 2023, 09:30:30 AMI don't think we'd have these lack of tackling problems if we had a defensive-minded coach. Defenders want the highlight hit instead of the highlight tackle.

I think the organization (someone mentioned Mara, which I agree with) prioritizes star power above winning. The players see it and respond to it.

Quote from: T200 on December 26, 2023, 09:19:58 AMWhen defenders routinely miss tackles, that's not a talent issue. It's coaching.

To me this is a culture issue which is partly a coaching issue but when you're on your 5th HC with the same culture issues it becomes obvious that it's the organization more than the coaching.

If anyone could turn Marvin Harrison Jr into a non-factor it would be Daniel Jones. That's the last QB-WR pairing I ever want to see on the Giants.

The issues to me are in this order:

1.QB
2.Talent (particularly OL)
3. Coaching

This team seems to be 3 years away every year and it's been that way for over a decade. Things won't change until they find a legitimate QB.

It's ironic that Geno Smith may have been that guy 6 years ago if they had given him a shot. But Gettleman believed Eli just needed another weapon and he bizarrely believed Kyle Lauletta could be the heir apparent. Not that Geno was a great prize, but maybe he would've helped this team get back to respectability.

Now, unless they luck into an elite QB through the draft, they'll continue their decade long game of whack-a-mole with the roster. Use 2 top-10 picks and a 2nd round pick on the OL, and the OL is worse than ever. Invest a top-10 pick on a pass rusher and sign Dex to a huge contract, but the defensive front is only average on a good day. Invest a first round pick on a dynamic WR, then trade him for an aging but formerly elite TE, and still no legitimate #1 target. Grant McAdoo the keys to the kingdom, 2 years later it's Shurmur, 2 years later it's Judge, 2 years later it's Daboll, 2 years later???

This is like being on a hamster wheel. Until they solve the QB position they will continue running in place without getting anywhere.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 23, 2023, 04:34:34 PMYes well this was a "What if?" conversation starter and none of us can state AS FACT, that Williams doesn't get past #2.

I'm interested in finding out how important the franchise QB is to our fellow fans...and who among them believe that it is Williams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I would do everything I could (within reason) to make the trade. Williams would give this franchise the biggest reason for optimism since the Eli trade.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 23, 2023, 04:17:03 PMWilliams won't make it past two. If this was Jayden Daniels and not Williams it's a different story.

This is the correct answer.

This is the trap Mike Lombardi says teams fall into. In one of his podcasts he used the NBA as an example. A desperate team signs a bench player who averaged 10 points and 5 rebounds in 20 minutes per game. They assume the player will average 20 points and 10 rebounds if he plays 40 minutes a game. But when the player is on the floor for that many minutes his performance regresses. Lombardi's point is you can't take a role player and manufacture a star performer simply by giving him more playing time, or in this case targets. If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 05:39:49 PMTyreek Hill is in his 8th year in the league and has only had 1500 receiving yards twice. He never once did it with Mahomes (the best QB in the league) and Andy Reid (the best playcaller in the league). You're saying Slayton would have done it the last three year with any top 10 QB and good O line.

If you consistently get 1500 receiving yards a year in this league year after year you are an elite superstar who is going to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, period, no questions asked. Hell, Megatron only did it twice. Randy Moss only did it once. You're saying Slayton, who is in his fifth year, would have done it "a few times" already on a better team when Tyreek Hill couldn't do it once with Mahomes, Reid, and a top O line.

Really? And you're calling us "nuts" for saying he's a solid player?

Lol, I thought he was just being sarcastic. Apparently not. I remember when they traded Toney to KC, there were more than a few people who thought he would be a beast with Mahomes. A lot of these guys are what they are. Slayton has a slightly higher chance of 1,500 yards in a season than me and you.

Quote from: TDToomer on December 21, 2023, 04:56:12 PMThis just shows how pathetic our receiving "talent" has been around Slayton. He's Chris Calloway. The best receiver among the leagues worst WR corp year after year.

I think Calloway is closer to Sterling Shepard without the injuries. Slayton isn't close to either of them. Those guys are legitimate starters on a bad offense. Slayton is just a role player on a bad offense.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 21, 2023, 04:44:51 PMDex, Okereke and Thibs are not underrated.

29th in run defense, so probably true.