Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: kingm56 on March 25, 2024, 11:53:54 AMBob,

I don't prescribe to the notion that Mara is solely responsible for DJ remaining on the roster; although, I certainly believe he played a role.  Fundamentally, I believe he's still on a team as result of circumstance.  If a decent QB prospect was available in 2022, the Giants would have drafted him with one of their two top 7 picks.  Unfortunately, it was the worse draft for QB prospects in two decades. Last year, there were no alternatives and it would have been a marketing nightmare to allow DJ to walk, following a Playoff victory. What I do know is 60+ GS is more than enough time to predict DJ's trajectory. 

king: My mantra about the draft continues to be that the Giants are one of the unluckiest of NFL teams, and have been so since IMO the late 1960's. Their best "luck" has been 2004 (the Eli situation) and the year Lawrence Taylor "fell" to Pick Two. lol  Bob

Quote from: Philosophers on March 25, 2024, 11:47:52 AMBob - given their FA pickups at OL, I think it's less of a need (at least early in draft) and we may need to let them play out.

QB vs WR who gets us top 10 QB play in 2025 or sooner.

Phil: Right (except for the Evan Neal quandary/problem/issue,which I don't have a clear "read" on right now). Bob

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 25, 2024, 11:45:05 AMI will sound like a broken record..because on this topic; I AM!
Trade down, grab another 2nd this year and a 1st next year.
Then prioritize OL (yep even with the FAs we picked up), CB, DT.
Next priority LB and WR.
Higher WR & QB should be addressed next year. We're not winning anything this year anyway so having an extra #1 and a top 10 of your own to maneuver, knowing that the trenches on the roster are deep in talent; that's how I'd like to see this team built.

andrew: I'd like to agree completely, but it is IMO a rare enough event to get a shot at a true "bell-cow" WR to justify jumping on it this year, unless (1) the Giants see a proven elite WR who'll become a free agent in 2025 (for whom they're willing to outbid virtually any other team); or (2) they have a SINGLE favorite high-1st-round-worthy WR in mind this year and that guy is gone.

I do see how waiting fits into your plan, which I like, but it's cheaper to draft one this year than overpay a 2025 free agent, and, there is a high bust rate for first round WR's in general.

Further, IMO there is a least one bust-proof WR this year. Next year? I don't know. Good post.

Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2024, 11:31:06 AMI am puzzled by how many people buy into the claim that Daniel Jones is a slow processor.  Do you honestly believe that Daboll (for all his faults, he appears to be a pretty good OC) couldn't figure out how quickly Jones could process?  Does anyone here believe that outsiders or fans are better at judging DJ's processing speed than the coaches in the building?

Rich: I sense (but cannot prove) that most of the folks here who are seriously down on Jones DO BELIEVE that the only reason he's still on the team is due to the owners (probably Mara) insisting upon it. If true, that would negate your reasoning (above) which I find persuasive and logical. Bob

Quote from: kingm56 on March 25, 2024, 10:26:52 AMI actually agree with their position.  As I just explained to Bob, I'd prefer the Giants draft a 'second-tier' QB like Nix in the late 1st or early 2d, preserving their 1st pick to select the best WR available.

king: Me too. Bring in the "right" WR in the first round (not if the one or two you really wanted are already gone, in which case you bring in "best player available" at any position, although OL is certainly an area of need, so you look there first), then consider paying the price to move up to either the high 2nd-round or low 1st-round, depending on which (if any) QB's you really like is still available.

Bob

PS. If you really love a QB in the high first round who has inexplicably fallen to Pick Six, my plan (above) does not rule out serious consideration of a QB, especially if (for example) the guy who fell is your top-ranked QB in the entire draft vs. your second- or third-ranked WR.

PPS. My favorite drafts in the past have been when the Giants get the very best player they see from a position that has yet been drawn from by the other teams.  In other words, the best TE or best whatever, preferably at a position of need.  The Giants have numerous positions of need.

Quote from: T200 on March 25, 2024, 09:11:03 AMThey gambled twice on him; not picking up his 5th-year option and then the health gamble. Fool me once...

They'd be absolute fools to stake their careers on a QB they didn't bring in. That's why I think they will draft a QB this year.

Tim: We both know your post makes a lot of sense, but consider this... did they not also learn in their few years as the helm that if you don't have a half-decent offensive line that can protect the QB AND open a few holes for the run game (neither of which they were very successful at) and also have an elite WR, your team will lead the NFL in offensive futility? The fool-me-once thing applies to those two situations as well.

I believe they will have a single QB in mind whom (if he falls to them without trading) they will take. But that is a very small window with very low odds, IMO.  When that fails, as it almost certainly will, they will have probably two (maybe all three) WR's in mind, because that trio (this year) IMO beats the crap out of the group of potential high-1st-round QB's.

I think the odds (absent a trade up or down) strongly favor a WR, with TE and O-line as long-shots.

Bob

Rich: Probably because you're more "caught up" in the possibility that the Giants will take a QB than I am.

My relative disregard for this QB class is probably what prevented me from falling into that same hole.

I'd say if the Giants were at Pick Four (as they were in 2004) it might be different.

But the real difference is the quality of the QB's available back then, IMO.

I still believe only one (at most) of the high-1st-round QB's drafted this year will succeed.

Bob

PS. Again... I'm not saying they won't take a QB. Like everyone else, I have absolutely no idea what they'll do, but I will be excited by whomever they select (among WR and QB) because I'll be certain they believe in that man A WHOLE LOT to take a player at either one of those positions so high up.

Quote from: T200 on March 25, 2024, 08:18:30 AMBob,

The media would have a field day with this if that was the response.

"Schoen Not Confident in Jones"
"It's the Beginning of the End for Jones"
"Danny's Done in Big Blue"
"Joe Knows; No Jones"

Tim: I don't contest your proposed headlines. 

They are as inaccurate (prompted by the statement I suggested) & unfair as I've come to expect from SOME media.

But a GM can't allow a-holes to control what he says. He should say what he means and let the chips fall where they may. And he should NEVER FORGET and be ready to MAKE THEM PAY. The power of the press is vast, but so is the power of the truth. The GM who holds all the cards in pro ball. The media make their living by not losing access to (or the confidence of) the GM. That is within the GM's control.

Bob

Quote from: kingm56 on March 25, 2024, 02:35:37 AMSpot on, Jeff/Joe.  What are fans expecting the HC/GM to say?  Broadcasting their draft strategy by announcing they're going to draft a QB at 6, or state they're going to ride with DJ one more year, until they can replace him with someone better? There's literally no good alternative to the question posed...both answers were GM/HC speak 101 and both passed...

king: I understand why you say that, but IMO they don't have to say anything, so why would they go out of their way to make any statements at all?  No matter what question might be asked by reporters, the answer "We'll have to wait and see because there are so many variables" should always suffice, even for Jones' own ears, because no one knows better than he that his health issue is up-in-the-air (one day at a time). If pressed by the media, the follow-up answer is "I can't predict the future... buy a crystal ball."  Bob

Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 25, 2024, 01:53:02 AMMaybe the worst thing was having so many viable candidates for the worst thing.

You beat me to the punch. Good one. Bob

Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 24, 2024, 08:10:08 PMToney was completely awful and the third screw up in one round. That's simply mind boggling. Probably the dumbest move not counting OBJ's boat drama.

spider: Yeah, three mistakes involving a single pick says it all. Bob

Quote from: kingm56 on March 25, 2024, 03:02:03 AMGentlemen,

In regards to the rationale for DJ's poor performance as a passer, please consider he was criticized for lack of processing speed in college, well before he was saddled with the Giants' terrible OLs, or suffered any injuries.  In fact, his lack of processing speed  is what led Todd McShay to conclude DJ was a 'bad pick, who's skillsets were more suited to a backup vice NFL starter.  If you go back and listen to McShay, his assessment was eerily accurate.  All the signs were and continue to be present.  Again, DJ was never an above-average passer, at any level.  He wasn't a highly, or even moderately recruited HS player; also, he only amassed a few 300+ yard passing games in college, despite playing in a high-scoring conference. The reasons are obvious; despite being a good athlete, his mental/cogitative shortcomings limit his ceiling as a passer.  If you consider the latter, how many times do we see DJ make an anticipatory throw through tight windows?  More often than not, he's throwing simple crossing, post or nine routes.  There's also virtually no improv ability; if a play breaks down, so does DJ, with the exception of the occasional long run. As a passer, he simply never had 'it.'

I'm also mystified why some fans are signing up for 17 more games to see if he can become something he never was; it's more perplexing when you compare DJ's trajectory to every QB who's played over the past 30 years.  In short, no QB made the transition from average to SB winning QB after 60+ games played.  At this point, DJ is who he is, and I think the Giants understand their current paradigm... 

king: Nice post. I hope you're wrong, but I know better.

Obviously, there's something about the kid they really like (probably effort and dedication) so they're going to stick with him until they're out of excuses. 

I've been a consistent defender of Jones throughout the years because the team failed to assemble a supporting cast immediately after drafting him (IMO, it should have been done before drafting a QB). That matter cannot be denied, notwithstanding all of your excellent points.

We have to assume the team was aware of most of all of those points, so the fact that they drafted him anyway is almost inexplicable... or they believed the problem(s) was(were) fixable.  It sure looks like they were wrong, but he'll probably have this year as a last gasp.

To date, IMO it's unclear whether they'll draft a high 1st-round QB, but the waters are murky. What they actually do in that regard will tell the tale... so we'll have our answer in just a few weeks.

Bob

PS. I just don't like this group of QB's but if I had to pick one with the first pick it would be McCarthy. At least he knows what it's like to win games against college's best teams.

Yeah, drafting a high 1st-round QB is definitely not for the faint of heart. lol

If they trade up to pick McCarthy instead of Harrison, it will ruin my year.

I get it.  If he turns out to be "The Next Tom Brady" (also from Michigan, and also dissed/ignored pre-draft) they'll never live it down.  I say I'll take that bet (won't be the next Brady).

I say tell me his three greatest attributes. I can only think of one that really matters to an NFL team (good leader). I do see, though, that players might think more highly of him, depending on what scuttlebutt is going around about him.  I don't know. Maybe Schoen and Mara should ask the players. lol

Bob

Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 24, 2024, 02:40:23 PMYou didn't specify drafting mistake so I am going with hiring Gettleman as GM.

AZ: You're right.  And you're right. lol