Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 06, 2023, 01:34:04 PMDisagree. It's DE/DT. They have to replace Leo.

It's never easy replacing good players but compared to the positions listed in the poll, DT is probably the least difficult to fill through free agency.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 06, 2023, 06:56:43 AMIf it is indeed a complete crapshoot, I guess the fact that more than 50% of the starting QBs in the league right now were taken in the top 10 overall out of more than 250 total draft picks (plus the whole undrafted population) is a sheer coincidence and randomly picking a QB in the 4th round gives you the same odds of him panning out as it does if you take one in the top 5 or 10 overall.

Let's just hope Joe Schoen is a little more sophisticated than the "it doesn't matter where you draft a QB" crowd.

Breaking up a fight? Lol, that was a football play. My goodness, is everything in football now a fight?

Two things you never do in sports. One, no one ever lays a hand on the officials. And two, non-players never physically engage the players.

If it was up to me, this Eagles staffer would never be credentialed for another NFL game. How else do you ensure teams don't start using their staff members to bait opposing players into getting into fights and ejected?

Imagine if it was the Giants and some clown staffer baited Dex into getting ejected during a big game? How many teams have filed this story away as a tactic they might use out of desperation? How do you protect the integrity of the game? Where do you draw the line? I hope the NFL drops the hammer on this clown.

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 04, 2023, 09:54:57 AMDoc: Nice post. Never heard from people I talk to why Giants did not want Parsons and it's still pissing me off.

Perhaps it was character concerns but IMO virtually NO ONE thought he could play with his hand in the dirt. 

In other words, they may have concluded that a pure linebacker just wasn't worth such a high pick.

Same with Barkley ("RB's just aren't worth such high picks").  Well, sometimes a guy breaks the mold.

In Barkley's case, he proved himself to be a top NFL player. We'd never hear the end of it if he had busted.

Bob

Bob, I "liked" your comments on Parsons and am choosing to remain agnostic on your Barkley comments. We can hash that one out another day. Lol.

On the issue of trading back, we have to keep in mind that adding more picks doesn't automatically mean filling more holes. Let's keep in mind a couple years ago, when the guy they wanted was taken, they traded out of the 11th spot in exchange for 4 picks. They could have sat tight and taken one of Micah Parsons, Rashawn Slater, or Alijah Vera-Tucker, who were the next three players drafted and any of whom would have filled a major hole for the Giants. Instead they ended up with Kadarius Toney, Aaron Robinson, Evan Neal, and Daniel Bellinger.

Collectively those 4 guys haven't filled any holes and took up more of the salary cap than they would've spent had they kept the 11th pick.

One other interesting fact, they traded up from 76th to 70th for Aaron Robinson. Robinson has barely played over 3 years. Meanwhile, the guy drafted at #76 is Saints CB Paulson Adebo who is having an All Pro type season.

Bottom line with the draft is they have to do a better job picking good players. I don't want to blame Schoen for Gettleman's screw ups, but even Schoen has a lot to prove.

The NFL has to deal with this security guard issue. Otherwise you're incentivizing staff members to bait players.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on December 01, 2023, 05:46:29 PMDoc good point on whos throwing him the ball. Is it safe to say your ok with BPA on defense and as for offense, O-line or QB?

Elvis, I could spend a couple hours at the pub talking your ear off on my draft thoughts. To keep it short, I haven't ruled anything out at this point. Still haven't given up hope on a QB (Daniels?). Bottom line for me is they absolutely need an All Pro talent with the pick, and if Nabers is the BPA then I'm not sure we can just dismiss that. This team is lacking in game changing talent.

Yes, Nabers is a great consolation prize if they can't get a QB but who's throwing him the ball? Does he become another shiny hood ornament?

No, it doesn't diminish Daniels any more than Joe Burrow was diminished by throwing to JaMarr Chase and Justin Jefferson.

The Giants are in a tough spot because they don't have a lot of really good players and can't afford to let those guys walk away for nothing. At the same time, they can't afford to pay great player money to good players.

I see 3 guys on that list that qualify as really good players. Adoree, Barkley, and McKinney. I would set a number for each and not budge from that number. If they can get more on the open market then let them go and see what you can do in free agency for replacements.

There are a few more guys on the list that might qualify as useful players. Definitely don't want to overpay for those guys like they did last year for guys like Slayton and Campbell. Bring them back if you can get them at a bargain. Schoen has to be disciplined in free agency. My two cents.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 01, 2023, 01:31:17 PMBy the way, where have I not said in other posts abiut a player's limitations?

Daniel Jones? I apologize if I'm wrong about that.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 01, 2023, 12:19:06 PMNeal finishes his rookie year, drops weight and goes to Willie Anderson OL School for personal one on one training.  Seems to have done the right offseason things. 

So what happened when he started camp?

1) was the face that the starting 5 were not established a bad thing as they did not practice together enough?

2) Did OL practice enough in preseason?  Were the drills wrong?

3) Did Rob Johnson coach differently than what Willie Anderson emphasized resulting in confusion?

4) is it a blocking scheme issue?

What exactly went wrong?

Is it possible Neal has physical limitations that prevent him from being an effective right tackle? It seems like you never include player limitations in your analyses. As if it's always someone else's fault.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 01, 2023, 12:17:37 PMI am fully aware that Neal was highly touted by the masses, and I myself (a fan) was stoked when we took him. Still, Schoen 100% owns the pick, no matter what the pundits, fans, other scouts, or the player's college coach thought. You don't get to be absolved of a bad pick just because the player was highly touted. Doesn't work that way. And if you got bad advice from your own internal scouts, that's on you too as the GM. If you take a player 7th overall and he sucks, you simply own that and deserve to be criticized for it. Schoen's job is not to robotically follow consensus draft boards. His job is to find the best players he can with the picks he has (or consider moving up or down if there are none in that range that he likes). With the specific case of the 7th overall pick in the 2022 draft, he appears to have failed on that front.

Now.. to be very clear, I am high on Schoen overall. I think he's the right man for the job. I like most of what he has done since he has joined and most of what he has said and how he has handled himself. He hasn't been perfect though, and this is an example. And I think it's fair to say his other O line picks, so far (I know it's still early) have shown any bona fide encouraging signs yet either.

Great post. A GM's job would be easy if he was allowed to just follow the crowd on major decisions and wasn't held accountable for the results of those decisions.

Quote from: Gmo11 on December 01, 2023, 09:49:24 AMI'm not a big fan of the guys that might be going in Round 2 so I would say go get your guy.  Now if the Giants decided that Maye/Williams were clearly the top 2 guys and everybody from 3 to 8 were graded similarly then sure, you wait, but for me I like Daniels a LOT and after him I'd probably even prefer Nix/Penix over the guys slated for Round 2 so I'd make sure I got my guy.

Agree. My question right now is whether Jayden Daniels elevates himself enough so that this becomes a big-3 QB draft rather than a big-2. I keep hearing great things about Daniels but not clear on how things will ultimately shake out.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 01, 2023, 09:34:35 AMDo we think the cost of Fields in a trade would only be a third or fourth round pick (ie "mid round")? I am not so sure about that. I totally get that his value has declined precipitously given he will be entering the final year of his rookie contract, but he is still a starting QB who has shown some ability on a bad team (albeit has not excelled). I would have guessed he would command more than that, but maybe I'm wrong.

If you're right and the cost would only be something like a third rounder, then I totally agree that that would be a viable option and, given that's the cost, i wouldn't necessarily feel compelled to exercise the 5th year option either. And then you effectively have a one year QB with no further obligation unless you want one.

If he were to command more than a third rounder though, I don't love the idea of doing the trade unless our front office legitimately has the view that he is a long term option, in which case you might as well do the 5th year option.

Overall I find it hard to get myself to really be interested, but if it's just a mid-rounder then that's a different proposition than what I was envisioning it to be.

No, I agree with everything you said here. I have no idea what Chicago could theoretically get for Fields. I might be interested if the discussion is a mid-round pick. Higher than that and I lose interest. I'm not sure I'd want to do a 3rd rounder. 4th rounder, yes, I'd be happy to take a one year shot with Fields. No idea if that's even possible. Just saying that would be my one call to Chicago.

But again, it brings us back to the Daniel Jones free agency scenario. If he plays poorly, have you really gained anything? If he plays well, are you willing to spend real money on him? He would have to have a major breakthrough in order to be anything more than a one year rental.