Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:49:33 AMEd: Yes, unless they draft a quarterback AND he's taken in the high 1st-round AND doctors okay Jones to play.

So you're asking two questions at once.  First, is he "good enough" to lead a good team?

Second, is his career basically "over" (as happened with the sad case of RB David Wilson) due to injury?

Bob

He's not good enough to be the Franchise QB but his career isn't over yet. It's just over as a NYG past 2024. Imo

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:21:15 AMAny member who answers "yes" MUST ALSO believe our management team and/or head coach are also busts.

Otherwise, a "yes" vote makes no sense since THEY signed the bust to a multi-year contract just this year.

So I'll ask anyone who sees this to also address THAT issue.

Bob

They gave him a two year prove it deal while the team was rebuilding. Schoen protected the team and he clearly had reservations. And I do believe that Mara injected his input, otherwise he may not have even been signed.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:46:12 AMEd: Clearly, that's all anyone can say and all views are will still-limited data.

But my point about the Giants taking Maye will exist no matter how well each QB does between now and draft day.

I was just spit-balling the issue to you now because I figured it's legit to consider that issue even today.

Bob

It's possible but I don't believe they will think that way.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:17:43 AMVERY timely topic, since that's now the issue with Jones (IMO).

Even if Giants draft a QB & even if it's a high 1st-rounder, that doesn't mean Jones won't start the first game.

If he does and keeps winning, he's not an "old man" by any stretch of the imagination.

Even if it's a high 1st-rounder, the first question will be how long can Jones keep the new guy on the bench.

I'll never forget how long Aaron Rodgers sat waiting for Brett Favre to play himself out of a job. There was even talk of trading Rodgers at one point.

Bob

Bob, do you actually believe Jones has a shot at 2025 with the Giants? I don't. Hey, he's not nearly as bad as he's been this year, but they won't take a chance with all these injuries.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:28:36 AMEd: IMO you know your QB's but I ask you... even if the Giants like Maye and want him over all other QB's....

How can Schoen stand before the media & make the case for Maye (assuming they get him in the high first round)?

After the lack of success of Daniel Jones (or, if you still believe in him as I do, delayed or stunted success)  coming out of the ACC, it would require (because Jones will still be on the team) Schoen to say why Maye is a better prospect than Jones!  If you disagree with this statement, then tell me what he will say... no, I don't think the Giants will take Maye no matter how much they like him.

Bob

I did say at this point. However Maye in my opinion has a nice upside and is further along than Jones was. A lot of this comes down to how they fall to the Giants. I actually believe at this point that Bo Nix would be the best fit for the Giants. After Jones getting injured so many times, I think they would be shy of Daniels. McCarthy would be another good fit in Blue.

Again, too early to make predictions and I have a lot more film to review.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:11:56 AMDgood: If you're right about Daniels, it will IMO be due to the success of Lamar Jackson with the Ravens.

Every team passed on him & it's his success that IMO changed how NFL teams view "dual threat" QB's.

A new trend had already begun, but our "Mesozoic Era" management was (as they've been through my entire lifetime) one of the last to see it and act on it. I'm still not convinced that, even though they can now see it clearly, they will act on it in 2024. For this reason alone, the 2024 draft will be of extreme interest to me. Will the stodgy Giants enter the 21st century before it ends?

Bob

PS. This doesn't I've given up on Jones. It only means that his time limit with the Giants may have expired.

Daniels is special. The difference between him and Lamar is this kid has an arm. He threw a pass effortlessly for about 62 yards leading his receiver.

He doesn't just take off either. He scopes the field very well.

Calib in my eyes will have his challenges at the next level.

At this point my top three are Maye, Bo and Daniels. I think Penik drop's because of his injuries and Williams because he's not seeing or throwing to open receivers and is getting self sacks and turnovers. His horrible Oline doing a NYG imitation not withstanding.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 12:51:18 AMJ: All these guys have a shot, but if forced to pick a QB right now it would be Jaden Daniels (LSU).

All other things being equal (which they are not) he would be the front-runner for the Heisman Trophy.

If he played on a real good team, he'd IMO be the talk of this thread (no one even mentioned him yet).

I'm getting the same vibes about him as when Lamar Jackson was in the draft (for @Ed Vette  especially!).

The really good news... he could actually still be there at the top of the 2nd round. 

Bob

If it walks like a 🦆, quacks like a 🦆 and slings a football with a 78% completion %, it's probably Bo Nix.

Bo knows football. Don't discount Bo.

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Depends on whether he plays a partial or full first year. Eli had 17,18 and 20 interceptions his 2-4 years and blossomed in the playoffs.

Aaron Rodgers didn't play his first three years.

It depends on the system they came from in college and their level of development coming in.

QB's this generation need to show something by their second year and sitting in some situations doesn't help if it's too long, like Love.

Year three is tough because of the salary complications.

Trevor Lawrence struggled his first season with a bad situation and came on strong his second year.

Some you just know in their first year, like Rosen and Haskins. 

Some you see warts before the draft, yet they still get drafted high. I think we know Mayfield and Darnold will never win a SB.

Michigan played it smart and trusted their Defense and JJ didn't do anything to hurt his team and that shows maturity. I thought Penn was foolish for going for two early.

In defense of Harbaugh.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 11, 2023, 11:10:02 AMI totally get not watching games when your team is 100% out of the race and they're brutal and awful to watch. Time is precious. And for those who work or have other weekday obligations, weekend time is really precious. So I get not wanting to plant yourself down on the couch for 3.5 hours to watch an event like last week's game, knowing that even if they won it wouldn't have mattered (and would have only made things worse from a draft standpoint). I generally still watch them even when they're this bad, but I totally get not wanting to and I don't think those who make that decision are less of fans than those who do.

I wouldn't bring EarPods to a wedding or baptism but there was a time that I would... lol

Quote from: LennG on November 11, 2023, 12:23:22 PMJamie, my friend. While your emotions may be right on, we simply cannot keep firing coaches every two years. While most are not thrilled with Dabol this season I have to give him another year, especially if we draft our next QB. But after that it's do or die.

I see it your way, Lenn. It's far too disruptive and if the GM is solid, they can continue to build the team another year. If however Daboll has a meltdown, and I don't expect that to happen then they would have no choice. Judge needed to go. I'm not so sure about McAdoo. He should have gotten more support.

A key flaw that I see in his game (albeit in limited film) and it's correctable to some extent is that he attempts to set up his mechanics for every pass in the pocket. At the next level, he's going to have to get many passes off in less than two seconds with a quick release with accuracy. He's not going to be able to open his stance for perfect mechanics on every play.

McAdoo was able to help Eli by changing his front foot off the snap and close his stance before release. He was getting killed when the pass rush evolution upped its game and his Oline was downgraded significantly.